|
|
Post by girllikeabomb on Feb 20, 2022 5:19:18 GMT -5
I know i would be pissed if some artist added their name to a song i did without doing actual work. Oh well...
You still are just tilting at windmills, my man.  It’s a structural element of the music industry in this day and age that the huge star whose name is on the cover (and whose persona/voice brings all the people to the party) gets a piece of the publishing. It’s not any secret and so long as the other writers involved are being properly compensated (there are cases where they are not, but I highly doubt that's going on here), it can be, as you said, a win-win for all involved.
Impossible for any of us to know if Liam changed anything substantive about EE, but I’m sure Grohl does not mind him getting a credit in any case. Grohl is among the wealthiest people in the rock world (like truly egregiously wealthy) and of course if he wanted to hang onto EE to do something else with he could have. (Grohl is doing some press now for his new horror film and album, so we’ll see if anyone asks him about Liam or EE.)
But EE is also a one-off. As others have pointed out, most of the songs on CYK are co-credited to Liam and Wyatt, so there likely was more of a true collaboration of some kind on most (not to say they all began with Liam – we know now Wyatt brought in “Moscow Rules,” for one, which of course many here had already guessed.) You should buck up, though, because there’s really not a lot of “army” involved this time. More like a lone assassin!
|
|
|
|
Post by andymorris on Feb 20, 2022 6:13:33 GMT -5
You should buck up, though, because there’s really not a lot of “army” involved this time. More like a lone assassin! I’m glad if that’s the case don’t be mistaken the more Liam is involved the happier I am ! As for being wealthy and being ok to share songwriting credits, it doesn’t matter. It’s all a matter of credits where they are due. And Dave shouldn’t accept those kind of deal, nor should Liam. Change can come from those people |
|
|
|
Post by andymorris on Feb 20, 2022 6:30:07 GMT -5
Here is a breakdown of what it feels like contributed and what he did not. Do you agree ? (Bet you dont  ) "Shockwave" : not much, eg probably less then 1% of the lyrics. "One of Us" : a few lyrics "Once" : a few lyrics "Now That I've Found You": 0 "Halo" : some lyrics, "Why Me? Why Not" : song started with his verses. "Be Still" : probably not much : lyrics for the chorus ? "Alright Now" : 0 "Meadow": 0 "The River" : 0 "Gone" : 0 "Invisible Sun" : a bit, but not much, lyrics "Misunderstood" : 0 "Glimmer" : 0 On the first record, only WAG and FWIW are problematic to me : WAG he probably contributed a few lyric at most, but FWIW is an absolute zero contribution (even said on the press release wanted to write an apology yet admited on anther interview he didn't write it). Yet he is still credited. "I'm not really that good at apologizing," Liam pointed out to Q Magazine about FWIW. "So I got someone else to do it for me." yet... “I wanted to write an apology… Not to one person, but to everyone, because I’m no good at saying sorry.” : press release. That's fuckin misleading if you ask me. |
|
|
|
Post by Diamond in The Dark on Feb 20, 2022 6:44:01 GMT -5
Here is a breakdown of what it feels like contributed and what he did not. Do you agree ? (Bet you dont  ) "Shockwave" : not much, eg probably less then 1% of the lyrics. "One of Us" : a few lyrics "Once" : a few lyrics "Now That I've Found You": 0 "Halo" : some lyrics, "Why Me? Why Not" : song started with his verses. "Be Still" : probably not much : lyrics for the chorus ? "Alright Now" : 0 "Meadow": 0 "The River" : 0 "Gone" : 0 "Invisible Sun" : a bit, but not much, lyrics "Misunderstood" : 0 "Glimmer" : 0 On the first record, only WAG and FWIW are problematic to me : WAG he probably contributed a few lyric at most, but FWIW is an absolute zero contribution (even said on the press release wanted to write an apology yet admited on anther interview he didn't write it). Yet he is still credited. "I'm not really that good at apologizing," Liam pointed out to Q Magazine about FWIW. "So I got someone else to do it for me." yet... “I wanted to write an apology… Not to one person, but to everyone, because I’m no good at saying sorry.” : press release. That's fuckin misleading if you ask me. Assuming that we will never know how much and where Liam has really contributed to the songs in which he appears as a co-writer, If we were to make a list of Noel's songs from 1994 to today where there are parts that are really authentic and "invented" by himself, we we would probably also find there with really low percentages. But that doesn't stop us from appreciating those songs and bringing them into our lives and deducing that Oasis have been one of the greatest bands of the last 30 years. |
|
|
|
Post by mancraider on Feb 20, 2022 6:52:19 GMT -5
Here is a breakdown of what it feels like contributed and what he did not. Do you agree ? (Bet you dont ) "Shockwave" : not much, eg probably less then 1% of the lyrics. "One of Us" : a few lyrics "Once" : a few lyrics "Now That I've Found You": 0 "Halo" : 0 "Why Me? Why Not" : song started with his verses. "Be Still" : probably not much "Alright Now" : 0 "Meadow": 0 "The River" : 0 "Gone" : 0 "Invisible Sun" : a bit, but not much "Misunderstood" : 0 "Glimmer" : 0 On the first record, only WAG and FWIW are problematic to me : WAG he probably contributed a few lyric at most, but FWIW is an absolute zero contribution (even said on the press release wanted to write an apology yet admited on anther interview he didn't write it). Yet he is still credited. "I'm not really that good at apologizing," Liam pointed out to Q Magazine about FWIW. "So I got someone else to do it for me." yet... “I wanted to write an apology… Not to one person, but to everyone, because I’m no good at saying sorry.” : press release. That's fuckin misleading if you ask me. even if that was true, which it isn't, or at least your are just guessing, its been pointed out to you that the reason an artist is routinely given a slice of the songwriting is because the money has disappeared from selling records and its the fairest way to recompense the artist for being the person that actually goes out there and sells the song to the punters. What you are saying is you'd prefer if liam just went and sang on songs for free without being paid for his time and effort. Nobody would buy these songs if Liam wasn't singing them. Well, maybe dave grohl would be ok but thats very much the exception here. Sure Liam will make the majority of the money from touring but what happens if he can't tour? Like during a pandemic for example? He'd have next to no income despite selling records with his name. I get what you are saying, and you have a valid opinion, but you have flogged it so much its now lying in a ditch with flys buzzing around its head. |
|
|
|
Post by andymorris on Feb 20, 2022 7:04:29 GMT -5
This is why the credits need to be redistributed. This industry has exploited musicians for so long. Yet the stars who can make a living out of it are parts of the scam, Liam included. If they all voiced against it maybe that could change.
I would pay 5 pounds more on a gig if that went to the musicians, and have real credits than all this non sense, but that’s just me.
I just don’t go and see Liam because it doesn’t feel true anymore… and I enjoyed Beady Eye gigs.
Oasis was an anti Major companies band, they hated those guys. And now he’s become one of them. It is all I’m saying. It’s become a circus, people are going to see Liam for a couple of Oasis tunes. His solo output don’t matter. Might as well tour with an Oasis compilation put every two years.
|
|
|
|
Post by mancraider on Feb 20, 2022 7:29:30 GMT -5
Its always been the case, whatever the industry that the big names hoover up most of the money, so i don't agree with you that it because of big artists. The real issue imo is the collapse of record sales because of streaming and the ridiculously low artist payments that that provides. The song credits is an attempt to correct that, flawed as it is. Its a symptom of the modern music industry and your continued anger about it just seems to be a bit futile.
As Liam always said, he loves making music and would happily do it for free, as long as everyone one else did it for free too. But if everyone else is taking their cut then he's going to take his, since its his name and voice that sell the records and tickets. Those song credits are his cut of the deal, and you might not like that aspect of the modern music industry but I dont know why you expect Liam to give up his fair share of the profits for a point of principle that only you seems to really be upset by.
As for fans only going for Oasis classics id have to disagree on that too. There are definitely Oasis diehards within his fanbase but I see many fans of his solo career especially among the younger set. Three no 1 albums and another on the way say likewise.
|
|
|
|
Post by The Crimson Rambler on Feb 20, 2022 7:54:21 GMT -5
This thread is wank.
|
|
|
|
Post by mancraider on Feb 20, 2022 8:12:45 GMT -5
don't read it then. I've a lot of sympathy when people complain threads get sidetracked, but it quite clearly says what this is about so why bother to engage just to complain? Especially in such a childish manner? EE and Andy clearly wanted to discuss this and I for one am happy to engage with them. |
|
|
|
Post by The Crimson Rambler on Feb 20, 2022 9:26:08 GMT -5
don't read it then. I've a lot of sympathy when people complain threads get sidetracked, but it quite clearly says what this is about so why bother to engage just to complain? Especially in such a childish manner? EE and Andy clearly wanted to discuss this and I for one am happy to engage with them. I appreciate the fact this thread is it's own distinct discussion and the vast majority of the messages are thoughtful (including all of your own) but I strongly believe that the wild speculation, delusional skepticism and failure of simple logic I have read is worthy of vocal condemnation. I want to bring an opposing voice and some of the statements I have read have well earned the tone of my message, which I stand by. This thread is wank. |
|
|
|
Post by mancraider on Feb 20, 2022 10:04:20 GMT -5
don't read it then. I've a lot of sympathy when people complain threads get sidetracked, but it quite clearly says what this is about so why bother to engage just to complain? Especially in such a childish manner? EE and Andy clearly wanted to discuss this and I for one am happy to engage with them. I appreciate the fact this thread is it's own distinct discussion and the vast majority of the messages are thoughtful (including all of your own) but I strongly believe that the wild speculation, delusional skepticism and failure of simple logic I have read is worthy of vocal condemnation. I want to bring an opposing voice and some of the statements I have read have well earned the tone of my message, which I stand by. This thread is wank. Well, its your opinion which you are welcome to. I just think you can't claim the moral high ground on other threads if you come on this one and throw silly comments about. |
|
|
|
Post by Diamond in The Dark on Feb 20, 2022 12:06:36 GMT -5
This thread serves to make it clear that every song by anyone is built on someone's ideas combined with someone else's. Nobody is excluded, that's how it works. |
|
|
|
Post by girllikeabomb on Feb 20, 2022 17:02:57 GMT -5
This is why the credits need to be redistributed. This industry has exploited musicians for so long. Yet the stars who can make a living out of it are parts of the scam, Liam included. If they all voiced against it maybe that could change.
If you want to start fixing the music industry, there's a lot of things that desperately need to come first, beginning with the fact, as Mancraider pointed out, that many young bands can't even make a living wage off an original album that is selling relatively well for this era. I definitely would not look to Liam to take a stand. He's never really been a revolutionary in that way. Plus, it's hard to bite the hand that feeds if you've known some hunger. If you want someone willing to critique the industry, it's mainly found in the older generations who came up when rock music was still perceived as an inseparable part of social change. Paul Weller does it regularly. Neil Young at least dinged Spotify by removing his music, but he also proved that it would take a very large and united effort to take them down. And unity has been lacking in the world for a terribly long time.
|
|
|
|
Post by underneaththesky on Feb 20, 2022 17:32:52 GMT -5
STAY YOUNG
|
|
|
|
Post by andymorris on Feb 21, 2022 9:18:04 GMT -5
This is why the credits need to be redistributed. This industry has exploited musicians for so long. Yet the stars who can make a living out of it are parts of the scam, Liam included. If they all voiced against it maybe that could change. If you want to start fixing the music industry, there's a lot of things that desperately need to come first, beginning with the fact, as Mancraider pointed out, that many young bands can't even make a living wage off an original album that is selling relatively well for this era. I definitely would not look to Liam to take a stand. He's never really been a revolutionary in that way. Plus, it's hard to bite the hand that feeds if you've known some hunger. If you want someone willing to critique the industry, it's mainly found in the older generations who came up when rock music was still perceived as an inseparable part of social change. Paul Weller does it regularly. Neil Young at least dinged Spotify by removing his music, but he also proved that it would take a very large and united effort to take them down. And unity has been lacking in the world for a terribly long time.
Yeah i know i'm a dreamer. Sadly. i wish artist like Liam would stand up because let's be honest, they dont need the money. It doesn't change their bank account to have 1% credited as songwriter, yet it changes everything for the (few) young fans that looks at tracklisting and think wow, Liam is a very good and prolific songwriter ! I'm not a fan of the whole Metoo movement or the woke and stuff like that, but we are in an era when people who matter try something, maybe they can achieve that something. This thread is not wank, it the chore of the problem. It underlines why the music nowadays is dying in an independent form, because of some revenues format invented to help the rich or the famous get richer and more famous. With the state of the music industry nowadays, there is no Oasis. Plain and simple. and many other bands that we'd loved for decades. So whatever some of you think of this debate (not you bomb, it's a " global You"), its more relevant than ever. The rest is speculation, and of course Liam might have contributed more than i think he did. but isn't that what we all do all the time in here isn't it. There's way more wank post or threads than this one. And again, no one is forcing you to click on things. |
|
|
|
Post by Diamond in The Dark on Feb 21, 2022 11:27:50 GMT -5
[ “You could probably take the most original band of all time, and they’re only playing what’s in their record collection. They might have a more eclectic record collection than you have, but my record collection consisted of The Beatles, The Stones, T. Rex, David Bowie and lots of greatest hits.” Noel Gallagher
"Some riffs and verses that I have borrowed fit my songs. If my sole job in the band was to come up with guitar riffs or every fucking verse, I wouldn’t be in the band. There’s too much gone, my thing is writing a song, and once you’ve written a song, nobody can argue with you, no matter what you put on it." Noel Gallagher
By the time that (What’s The Story) Morning Glory came around, Oasis had already had to settle a major plagiarism case from their debut record. The track ‘Shakermaker’ lent a little too heavily on the lyrics and melody of the little-know sixties singalong pop ditty ‘I’d Like to Teach the World To Sing’ by The New Seekers, and it ended up costing Oasis $500,000.
When their follow-up was in its test pressing stage Stevie Wonder somehow got wind of the fact that there was a proposed track on the record, ‘Step Out’, that was “highly influenced” by ‘Uptight (Everything’s Alright)’.
Following the lawsuits that Noel Gallagher faced in his early songwriting stage, his back catalogue is now strewn with co-writing credits attributed to obscure artists from yesteryear.
The issue arises when the direct influence comes from a song that the masses can’t ascribe an honorary co-writing credit to. And it gets even more nettlesome when the obscure source material is nicked almost verbatim. More often than not, when this occurs, the originator of the material doesn’t have enough money to their name to waive it off either. ]
...Another testimony that I have collected to make you understand that each song is co-written in some way. Even the songs credited only to Noel as an author. Those songs will never be born from him 100%. A melody part, a guitar solo part, or a piece of text that composes it, had already been written by someone else.
We should enjoy Liam's co-writing as we enjoyed Oasis, without asking too many questions. Neither of us with Oasis cared too much about which parts of the songs were actually made up by Noel and which were taken by someone else. We should just enjoy the songs.
|
|
|
|
Post by quantum on Feb 21, 2022 11:59:01 GMT -5
This thread serves to make it clear that every song by anyone is built on someone's ideas combined with someone else's. Nobody is excluded, that's how it works. So sort of standing on the shoulder of giants? |
|
|
|
Post by andymorris on Feb 21, 2022 12:25:44 GMT -5
We should enjoy Liam's co-writing as we enjoyed Oasis, without asking too many questions. Neither of us with Oasis cared too much about which parts of the songs were actually made up by Noel and which were taken by someone else. We should just enjoy the songs. Actually ive always looked for that stuff on Oasis forum, and it used to be a very discussed topic in the 2000s, on other forums (not this one, L4E have always been very uptight, but sadly its the only big one remaining). Maybe times have changed... and people don't care as much because the era or songwriter/performer is done. All those Oasis songs we've known about for years. Whatever, Fade Away, Dont Go Way, step Out... those steals are settled... Step out was even pull off MG last minute because of that. But are they steal or unconscious borrow ? If it's admitted and paid for, there is no reason to argue about them. Plus some are not that obvious. But what about Fade In Out, Stand by Me, the Masterplan, fuckin in the bushes, Gas Panic, SCYHO, and countless other songs which we have nothing to argue about ? the main bulk of Noel's work is his. Even album arrangements are mostly his (and starkey). Most of Noel's work is the result of all his influence, i suppose no one is denying that. He's like all of us, the result of his surrounding and experiences. And with all these, he created his own musical landscape, something Liam has not done 100%. He was on the road to achieve that. And I liked it. Hence the disappointment. I would also separate song arrangement (for instance Waiting for the rapture doesn't borrow the Doors riff on the demo) to the melody. Most modern riff are adaptations or old blues riff. Nothing is new under the sun. We recycled in music, like we recycle our trash. But for a songwriter, the melody is the most important thing, the rest is the cherry on the cake. |
|
|
|
Post by Diamond in The Dark on Feb 21, 2022 14:23:06 GMT -5
We should enjoy Liam's co-writing as we enjoyed Oasis, without asking too many questions. Neither of us with Oasis cared too much about which parts of the songs were actually made up by Noel and which were taken by someone else. We should just enjoy the songs. Actually ive always looked for that stuff on Oasis forum, and it used to be a very discussed topic in the 2000s, on other forums (not this one, L4E have always been very uptight, but sadly its the only big one remaining). Maybe times have changed... and people don't care as much because the era or songwriter/performer is done. All those Oasis songs we've known about for years. Whatever, Fade Away, Dont Go Way, step Out... those steals are settled... Step out was even pull off MG last minute because of that. But are they steal or unconscious borrow ? If it's admitted and paid for, there is no reason to argue about them. Plus some are not that obvious. But what about Fade In Out, Stand by Me, the Masterplan, fuckin in the bushes, Gas Panic, SCYHO, and countless other songs which we have nothing to argue about ? the main bulk of Noel's work is his. Even album arrangements are mostly his (and starkey). Most of Noel's work is the result of all his influence, i suppose no one is denying that. He's like all of us, the result of his surrounding and experiences. And with all these, he created his own musical landscape, something Liam has not done 100%. He was on the road to achieve that. And I liked it. Hence the disappointment. I would also separate song arrangement (for instance Waiting for the rapture doesn't borrow the Doors riff on the demo) to the melody. Most modern riff are adaptations or old blues riff. Nothing is new under the sun. We recycled in music, like we recycle our trash. But for a songwriter, the melody is the most important thing, the rest is the cherry on the cake. It's not exactly what you say. I'm noticing a lot of "lightness" in your reasoning when it comes to Noel ... When it comes to Noel there is always a lot of lightness in the analysis of some fans ... and also a lot of "forgiveness". Unfortunately, the opposite happens with Liam. What I mean is that there is so much more behind the Oasis songs ... I could look for tons of other material where it is witnessed that Noel actually used samples, melody pieces, verse pieces, solos and riffs taken from materials already registered and published by others previously. Some were not conscious, but many others really were. I'll show you other examples (trust me I found tons of them, but I don't want to bore) Shakermaker by Oasis (1994) = I'd Like To Teach The World To Sing by The New Seekers (1971) Australia's The New Seekers were hugely popular in the UK when Noel was a young boy. I'd Like To Teach The World To Sing was used on TV ads for Coca-Cola and sold almost one million copies in the UK alone. Shakermaker's initial vocal melody is essentially the same. So much so that The New Seekers sued - with Oasis reportedly having to pay $500,000 as settlement. Cigarettes And Alcohol by Oasis (1994) = Get It On by T-Rex (1971) Long talked about, the opening guitar riff to Cigarettes And Alcohol is a direct decendent of Get It On. But as it's such a generic blues-rock riff, maybe we shouldn't be too harsh? Whatever by Oasis (1994) = How Sweet To Be An Idiot by Neil Innes (1973) Comic British songwriter Neil Innes (a Monty Python alumni) was behind Beatles parody 'rockumentary' The Rutles. The opening vocal melodies of Whatever and …Idiot are almost identical. Even an idiot can hear that. Half The World Away by Oasis (1994) = This Guy's In Love With You by Herb Alpert And The Tijuana Brass (1968) A picture of songwriter Burt Bacharach appears on the cover of Oasis's debut Definitely Maybe, and Noel is a vocal fan of BB's melodies. Which probably explains why the opening C / FMaj7 chords and meter of Half The World Away are a close relation of Herb Alpert's version of the Bacharach classic. Lyla by Oasis (2005) = Confrontation Camp by The Soundtrack Of Our Lives (1996) Noel Gallagher says Lyla sounded "a bit like... The Soundtrack of Our Lives doing The Who on Skol in a psychedelic city in the sky, or something." Maybe. Or is it just a straight rip of Confrontation Camp? The two bands toured together, after all. Hmm… "You'd have to ask the record company about that." Noel Gallagher on why Step Out 'disappeared' from the final version of (What's The Story) Morning Glory? Headshrinker by Oasis (1995) = Stay With Me by The Faces (1971) The Rolling Stones might be Noel's second favourite band, but maybe Ronnie Wood is his favourite Stone? The guitar intro to bruising b-side Headshrinker is 90% the same as Wood's on The Faces' hit. Mucky Fingers by Oasis (2005) = I'm Waiting For The Man by The Velvet Underground (1967) Not even Noel would deny this one. The Importance Of Being Idle by Oasis (2005) / = Clean Prophet by The La's (1988) The staccato intro guitar chords are almost identical. The La's are one of Noel Gallagher's favourite bands. Oasis now even boast The La's ex-drummer, Chris Sharrock. Hello by Oasis (1995) = Hello Hello, I'm Back Again by Gary Glitter (1973) A fair cop for Noel, as Glitter is listed as co-writer on the opening track of (What's The Story) Morning Glory? We're not sure how Noel now feels about still-strong royalties of Morning Glory? funding Glitter's dotage. Morning Glory by Oasis (1995) = The One I Love by REM (1987) Not a hugely incriminating rip-off. But let's just say there's a 'nod' in the opening guitar riff. In fact, maybe both Oasis and REM have just ripped Neil Young's Hey Hey, My My (Into The Black)? Everyone's guilty here! Step Out by Oasis (1996) = Uptight by Stevie Wonder (1966) x Rosalie by Thin Lizzy (1978) A genius double-whammy of 'lifting'. The chorus vocal melody is almost identical to Wonder's Uptight while the middle eight guitar riff is 'similar' to Thin Lizzy's live version of Bob Seger's song Rosalie. Step Out appeared on promo copies of Morning Glory? but it was pulled at the last minute. Why's that then? "You'd have to ask the record company about that," says Noel. It eventually appeared as a b-side track on the CD single of Don't Look Back In Anger, credited to writers Gallagher/Wonder/Cosby/Moy. Still one of Oasis's Noel-sung greatest tracks. Fuckin' In The Bushes by Oasis (2000) = I'd Like To Change The World by Ten Years After (1971) + Little Miss Lover by The Jimi Hendrix Experience + I'm A Man by The Spencer Davis Group Noel wanted to sample Mitch Mitchell's drums from a rare live version of Little Miss Lover, but the Hendrix estate blocked its use. So Oasis's then-drummer Alan White simply 'recreated' it. The higher register guitar riff (Oasis, starting at 1:30) is a pretty straight rip from the Ten Years After riff (listen from 2:40). The organ riff apes The Spencer Davis Group's I'm A Man (from 0:24). |
|
|
|
Post by tomlivesforever on Feb 21, 2022 15:15:47 GMT -5
If you want to start fixing the music industry, there's a lot of things that desperately need to come first, beginning with the fact, as Mancraider pointed out, that many young bands can't even make a living wage off an original album that is selling relatively well for this era. I definitely would not look to Liam to take a stand. He's never really been a revolutionary in that way. Plus, it's hard to bite the hand that feeds if you've known some hunger. If you want someone willing to critique the industry, it's mainly found in the older generations who came up when rock music was still perceived as an inseparable part of social change. Paul Weller does it regularly. Neil Young at least dinged Spotify by removing his music, but he also proved that it would take a very large and united effort to take them down. And unity has been lacking in the world for a terribly long time.
Yeah i know i'm a dreamer. Sadly. i wish artist like Liam would stand up because let's be honest, they dont need the money. It doesn't change their bank account to have 1% credited as songwriter, yet it changes everything for the (few) young fans that looks at tracklisting and think wow, Liam is a very good and prolific songwriter ! I'm not a fan of the whole Metoo movement or the woke and stuff like that, but we are in an era when people who matter try something, maybe they can achieve that something. This thread is not wank, it the chore of the problem. It underlines why the music nowadays is dying in an independent form, because of some revenues format invented to help the rich or the famous get richer and more famous. With the state of the music industry nowadays, there is no Oasis. Plain and simple. and many other bands that we'd loved for decades. So whatever some of you think of this debate (not you bomb, it's a " global You"), its more relevant than ever. The rest is speculation, and of course Liam might have contributed more than i think he did. but isn't that what we all do all the time in here isn't it. There's way more wank post or threads than this one. And again, no one is forcing you to click on things. You have a problem with the MeToo movement? And what does ‘woke’ mean? |
|
|
|
Post by Lennon2217 on Feb 21, 2022 15:50:15 GMT -5
Oasis failed because Bonehead didn’t get to present his songs!!!
|
|
|
|
Post by girllikeabomb on Feb 21, 2022 17:32:46 GMT -5
<abbr class="o-timestamp time" data-timestamp="1645453084000" title="Feb 21, 2022 6:18:04 GMT -8">Feb 21, 2022 6:18:04 GMT -8</abbr> andymorris said: Yeah i know i'm a dreamer. Sadly. i wish artist like Liam would stand up because let's be honest, they dont need the money. It doesn't change their bank account to have 1% credited as songwriter, yet it changes everything for the (few) young fans that looks at tracklisting and think wow, Liam is a very good and prolific songwriter ! I'm not a fan of the whole Metoo movement or the woke and stuff like that, but we are in an era when people who matter try something, maybe they can achieve that something. This thread is not wank, it the chore of the problem. It underlines why the music nowadays is dying in an independent form, because of some revenues format invented to help the rich or the famous get richer and more famous. With the state of the music industry nowadays, there is no Oasis. Plain and simple. and many other bands that we'd loved for decades. So whatever some of you think of this debate (not you bomb, it's a " global You"), its more relevant than ever. The rest is speculation, and of course Liam might have contributed more than i think he did. but isn't that what we all do all the time in here isn't it. There's way more wank post or threads than this one. And again, no one is forcing you to click on things.
You are correct that there could be no Oasis today. The irony is that it’s a big part of why young people love Oasis – because they don’t want that kind of dream to be over. But no one gets mad about the reasons why it is over, so it will stay the same.
(By the way, it's not because Liam takes writing credit on some songs – though you grossly underestimate how much it is worth to him in the long term and he does have a lot of children/family—it’s because of a whole slew of bigger structural changes that changed how all artists, rich and poor, get promoted and paid…and also because only a handful of people who have even a smidge of power still give a f.) So it goes in the world. Everything is cycles and one day things will be such that there will be a new cultural movement from the ground up, though it may happen next time elsewhere than music.
You should own your idealism. “Woke” is a bullshit word that means absolutely nothing and is designed to make caring about things sound stupid. It dampens conversation about essential problems which is not what anyone needs (except those in power). The problem is not your idealism at all. The problem is only your conjecture. Granted, Liam leaves his contributions a mystery, so he begs the question. But you’ve made it up in your mind that he’s completely detached from the records which is clearly not the case. And those kids you are worried about thinking he's the world's most prolific songwriter need only care enough to listen to or read a few interviews to hear him say point blank that he's not ...
Not at all sure what MeToo could possibly have to do with this conversation, so I’ll just leave that one hanging …
|
|
|
|
Post by andymorris on Feb 22, 2022 3:39:55 GMT -5
Actually ive always looked for that stuff on Oasis forum, and it used to be a very discussed topic in the 2000s, on other forums (not this one, L4E have always been very uptight, but sadly its the only big one remaining). Maybe times have changed... and people don't care as much because the era or songwriter/performer is done. All those Oasis songs we've known about for years. Whatever, Fade Away, Dont Go Way, step Out... those steals are settled... Step out was even pull off MG last minute because of that. But are they steal or unconscious borrow ? If it's admitted and paid for, there is no reason to argue about them. Plus some are not that obvious. But what about Fade In Out, Stand by Me, the Masterplan, fuckin in the bushes, Gas Panic, SCYHO, and countless other songs which we have nothing to argue about ? the main bulk of Noel's work is his. Even album arrangements are mostly his (and starkey). Most of Noel's work is the result of all his influence, i suppose no one is denying that. He's like all of us, the result of his surrounding and experiences. And with all these, he created his own musical landscape, something Liam has not done 100%. He was on the road to achieve that. And I liked it. Hence the disappointment. I would also separate song arrangement (for instance Waiting for the rapture doesn't borrow the Doors riff on the demo) to the melody. Most modern riff are adaptations or old blues riff. Nothing is new under the sun. We recycled in music, like we recycle our trash. But for a songwriter, the melody is the most important thing, the rest is the cherry on the cake. It's not exactly what you say. I'm noticing a lot of "lightness" in your reasoning when it comes to Noel ... When it comes to Noel there is always a lot of lightness in the analysis of some fans ... and also a lot of "forgiveness". Unfortunately, the opposite happens with Liam. What I mean is that there is so much more behind the Oasis songs ... I could look for tons of other material where it is witnessed that Noel actually used samples, melody pieces, verse pieces, solos and riffs taken from materials already registered and published by others previously. Some were not conscious, but many others really were. I'll show you other examples (trust me I found tons of them, but I don't want to bore) Shakermaker by Oasis (1994) = I'd Like To Teach The World To Sing by The New Seekers (1971) Australia's The New Seekers were hugely popular in the UK when Noel was a young boy. I'd Like To Teach The World To Sing was used on TV ads for Coca-Cola and sold almost one million copies in the UK alone. Shakermaker's initial vocal melody is essentially the same. So much so that The New Seekers sued - with Oasis reportedly having to pay $500,000 as settlement. Cigarettes And Alcohol by Oasis (1994) = Get It On by T-Rex (1971) Long talked about, the opening guitar riff to Cigarettes And Alcohol is a direct decendent of Get It On. But as it's such a generic blues-rock riff, maybe we shouldn't be too harsh? Whatever by Oasis (1994) = How Sweet To Be An Idiot by Neil Innes (1973) Comic British songwriter Neil Innes (a Monty Python alumni) was behind Beatles parody 'rockumentary' The Rutles. The opening vocal melodies of Whatever and …Idiot are almost identical. Even an idiot can hear that. Half The World Away by Oasis (1994) = This Guy's In Love With You by Herb Alpert And The Tijuana Brass (1968) A picture of songwriter Burt Bacharach appears on the cover of Oasis's debut Definitely Maybe, and Noel is a vocal fan of BB's melodies. Which probably explains why the opening C / FMaj7 chords and meter of Half The World Away are a close relation of Herb Alpert's version of the Bacharach classic. Lyla by Oasis (2005) = Confrontation Camp by The Soundtrack Of Our Lives (1996) Noel Gallagher says Lyla sounded "a bit like... The Soundtrack of Our Lives doing The Who on Skol in a psychedelic city in the sky, or something." Maybe. Or is it just a straight rip of Confrontation Camp? The two bands toured together, after all. Hmm… "You'd have to ask the record company about that." Noel Gallagher on why Step Out 'disappeared' from the final version of (What's The Story) Morning Glory? Headshrinker by Oasis (1995) = Stay With Me by The Faces (1971) The Rolling Stones might be Noel's second favourite band, but maybe Ronnie Wood is his favourite Stone? The guitar intro to bruising b-side Headshrinker is 90% the same as Wood's on The Faces' hit. Mucky Fingers by Oasis (2005) = I'm Waiting For The Man by The Velvet Underground (1967) Not even Noel would deny this one. The Importance Of Being Idle by Oasis (2005) / = Clean Prophet by The La's (1988) The staccato intro guitar chords are almost identical. The La's are one of Noel Gallagher's favourite bands. Oasis now even boast The La's ex-drummer, Chris Sharrock. Hello by Oasis (1995) = Hello Hello, I'm Back Again by Gary Glitter (1973) A fair cop for Noel, as Glitter is listed as co-writer on the opening track of (What's The Story) Morning Glory? We're not sure how Noel now feels about still-strong royalties of Morning Glory? funding Glitter's dotage. Morning Glory by Oasis (1995) = The One I Love by REM (1987) Not a hugely incriminating rip-off. But let's just say there's a 'nod' in the opening guitar riff. In fact, maybe both Oasis and REM have just ripped Neil Young's Hey Hey, My My (Into The Black)? Everyone's guilty here! Step Out by Oasis (1996) = Uptight by Stevie Wonder (1966) x Rosalie by Thin Lizzy (1978) A genius double-whammy of 'lifting'. The chorus vocal melody is almost identical to Wonder's Uptight while the middle eight guitar riff is 'similar' to Thin Lizzy's live version of Bob Seger's song Rosalie. Step Out appeared on promo copies of Morning Glory? but it was pulled at the last minute. Why's that then? "You'd have to ask the record company about that," says Noel. It eventually appeared as a b-side track on the CD single of Don't Look Back In Anger, credited to writers Gallagher/Wonder/Cosby/Moy. Still one of Oasis's Noel-sung greatest tracks. Fuckin' In The Bushes by Oasis (2000) = I'd Like To Change The World by Ten Years After (1971) + Little Miss Lover by The Jimi Hendrix Experience + I'm A Man by The Spencer Davis Group Noel wanted to sample Mitch Mitchell's drums from a rare live version of Little Miss Lover, but the Hendrix estate blocked its use. So Oasis's then-drummer Alan White simply 'recreated' it. The higher register guitar riff (Oasis, starting at 1:30) is a pretty straight rip from the Ten Years After riff (listen from 2:40). The organ riff apes The Spencer Davis Group's I'm A Man (from 0:24). I won't go into details of this one, but mostly you are referring to guitar or drums rhythms. guitar or drums rhythms can't be copyrighted, they are rhythms ! Same could apply to guitar riffs. There's only so many riffs available. Tons of songs sound alike because rhythms are rhythms. This is not stealing, it can be borrowing if you like, but everyone does it. Its like saying breathing in a certain way is copyrighted. Focus on the song, the melody, and now, you got very few steals from NG. |
|
|
|
Post by andymorris on Feb 22, 2022 3:42:43 GMT -5
Oasis failed because Bonehead didn’t get to present his songs!!! Well he even failed to sing on a song written for him, Boneheads bank holiday. the guy was so fuckin useless. |
|
|
|
Post by Diamond in The Dark on Feb 22, 2022 4:53:27 GMT -5
It's not exactly what you say. I'm noticing a lot of "lightness" in your reasoning when it comes to Noel ... When it comes to Noel there is always a lot of lightness in the analysis of some fans ... and also a lot of "forgiveness". Unfortunately, the opposite happens with Liam. What I mean is that there is so much more behind the Oasis songs ... I could look for tons of other material where it is witnessed that Noel actually used samples, melody pieces, verse pieces, solos and riffs taken from materials already registered and published by others previously. Some were not conscious, but many others really were. I'll show you other examples (trust me I found tons of them, but I don't want to bore) Shakermaker by Oasis (1994) = I'd Like To Teach The World To Sing by The New Seekers (1971) Australia's The New Seekers were hugely popular in the UK when Noel was a young boy. I'd Like To Teach The World To Sing was used on TV ads for Coca-Cola and sold almost one million copies in the UK alone. Shakermaker's initial vocal melody is essentially the same. So much so that The New Seekers sued - with Oasis reportedly having to pay $500,000 as settlement. Cigarettes And Alcohol by Oasis (1994) = Get It On by T-Rex (1971) Long talked about, the opening guitar riff to Cigarettes And Alcohol is a direct decendent of Get It On. But as it's such a generic blues-rock riff, maybe we shouldn't be too harsh? Whatever by Oasis (1994) = How Sweet To Be An Idiot by Neil Innes (1973) Comic British songwriter Neil Innes (a Monty Python alumni) was behind Beatles parody 'rockumentary' The Rutles. The opening vocal melodies of Whatever and …Idiot are almost identical. Even an idiot can hear that. Half The World Away by Oasis (1994) = This Guy's In Love With You by Herb Alpert And The Tijuana Brass (1968) A picture of songwriter Burt Bacharach appears on the cover of Oasis's debut Definitely Maybe, and Noel is a vocal fan of BB's melodies. Which probably explains why the opening C / FMaj7 chords and meter of Half The World Away are a close relation of Herb Alpert's version of the Bacharach classic. Lyla by Oasis (2005) = Confrontation Camp by The Soundtrack Of Our Lives (1996) Noel Gallagher says Lyla sounded "a bit like... The Soundtrack of Our Lives doing The Who on Skol in a psychedelic city in the sky, or something." Maybe. Or is it just a straight rip of Confrontation Camp? The two bands toured together, after all. Hmm… "You'd have to ask the record company about that." Noel Gallagher on why Step Out 'disappeared' from the final version of (What's The Story) Morning Glory? Headshrinker by Oasis (1995) = Stay With Me by The Faces (1971) The Rolling Stones might be Noel's second favourite band, but maybe Ronnie Wood is his favourite Stone? The guitar intro to bruising b-side Headshrinker is 90% the same as Wood's on The Faces' hit. Mucky Fingers by Oasis (2005) = I'm Waiting For The Man by The Velvet Underground (1967) Not even Noel would deny this one. The Importance Of Being Idle by Oasis (2005) / = Clean Prophet by The La's (1988) The staccato intro guitar chords are almost identical. The La's are one of Noel Gallagher's favourite bands. Oasis now even boast The La's ex-drummer, Chris Sharrock. Hello by Oasis (1995) = Hello Hello, I'm Back Again by Gary Glitter (1973) A fair cop for Noel, as Glitter is listed as co-writer on the opening track of (What's The Story) Morning Glory? We're not sure how Noel now feels about still-strong royalties of Morning Glory? funding Glitter's dotage. Morning Glory by Oasis (1995) = The One I Love by REM (1987) Not a hugely incriminating rip-off. But let's just say there's a 'nod' in the opening guitar riff. In fact, maybe both Oasis and REM have just ripped Neil Young's Hey Hey, My My (Into The Black)? Everyone's guilty here! Step Out by Oasis (1996) = Uptight by Stevie Wonder (1966) x Rosalie by Thin Lizzy (1978) A genius double-whammy of 'lifting'. The chorus vocal melody is almost identical to Wonder's Uptight while the middle eight guitar riff is 'similar' to Thin Lizzy's live version of Bob Seger's song Rosalie. Step Out appeared on promo copies of Morning Glory? but it was pulled at the last minute. Why's that then? "You'd have to ask the record company about that," says Noel. It eventually appeared as a b-side track on the CD single of Don't Look Back In Anger, credited to writers Gallagher/Wonder/Cosby/Moy. Still one of Oasis's Noel-sung greatest tracks. Fuckin' In The Bushes by Oasis (2000) = I'd Like To Change The World by Ten Years After (1971) + Little Miss Lover by The Jimi Hendrix Experience + I'm A Man by The Spencer Davis Group Noel wanted to sample Mitch Mitchell's drums from a rare live version of Little Miss Lover, but the Hendrix estate blocked its use. So Oasis's then-drummer Alan White simply 'recreated' it. The higher register guitar riff (Oasis, starting at 1:30) is a pretty straight rip from the Ten Years After riff (listen from 2:40). The organ riff apes The Spencer Davis Group's I'm A Man (from 0:24). I won't go into details of this one, but mostly you are referring to guitar or drums rhythms. guitar or drums rhythms can't be copyrighted, they are rhythms ! Same could apply to guitar riffs. There's only so many riffs available. Tons of songs sound alike because rhythms are rhythms. This is not stealing, it can be borrowing if you like, but everyone does it. Its like saying breathing in a certain way is copyrighted. Focus on the song, the melody, and now, you got very few steals from NG. Can I ask you something? How can you say that nothing has been "borrowed", that they are just rhythms, Lyrics and melodies invented by Noel despite the fact that there are tons of material that prove the contrary and that he himself admitted that behind his songwriting there are verses, melodies and riffs taken from other songs? There is an absence of objectivity when it comes to analysis on Noel. We cannot continue to discuss in this thread about something that really exists but that many pretend not to see. From my areas there is a saying that goes: "There is no worse deaf than those who DON'T WANT to listen". And I believe that when Noel's songwriting is analyzed, this is exactly what happens for some. |
|
It’s a structural element of the music industry in this day and age that the huge star whose name is on the cover (and whose persona/voice brings all the people to the party) gets a piece of the publishing. It’s not any secret and so long as the other writers involved are being properly compensated (there are cases where they are not, but I highly doubt that's going on here), it can be, as you said, a win-win for all involved. 
) 
Nov 4, 2024 5:04:30 GMT -5