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Post by Beady’s Here Now on Apr 7, 2021 9:04:01 GMT -5
Discuss.
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Post by welshylad on Apr 7, 2021 9:21:29 GMT -5
Everyone knows this
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cosmos
Oasis Roadie
Posts: 376
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Post by cosmos on Apr 7, 2021 10:13:59 GMT -5
1. it contains arguably Noel´s most sophisticated song writing, in terms of musical structure and arrangements (verses in minor key, chorus in major keys; key changes; long codas, lots of guitar riffs and solos). Lyrics are rubbish though.
2. golden age of Liam's voice
3. probably the bands' heaviest album (My big mouth and Fade in out could be heaviest Oasis tracks ever)
4. amazing b sides (stay young, going nowhere and i've got the fever are true classics)
It could very well be the band's second best album after WTSMG, but instead it carries the stigma of being the album that blew it all and not necessarily because of its faults (lyrics, length and over indulgent feeling), but for its really bad timing (the britpop thing was over, the middle classes rallied around radiohead's ok computer and the teenagers' libido was already directed into the spice girls and boy bands).
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Post by tiger40 on Apr 7, 2021 12:56:51 GMT -5
No just no. The album is one complete mess.
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Post by walterglass on Apr 7, 2021 13:05:46 GMT -5
Owen Morris, come on down.
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Post by modxxii on Apr 7, 2021 13:22:51 GMT -5
Nice album, Liam at his voice peak and the tunes are too long. It's not a masterpiece imo.
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Post by tiger40 on Apr 7, 2021 13:52:33 GMT -5
D' You Know What I Mean? is the best song on the album.
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Post by matt on Apr 7, 2021 14:09:34 GMT -5
Not great... but very good.
Too much is made about the production but I like the reckless haphazard nature of it all. The songs are really good but just never reach the sweet spot of the previous albums and b-sides. It was discussed here but much of it can be attributed to weaker choruses up against unbelievable verse melodies (Girl With Dirty Shirt). Too long and they don’t quite have the punch of all those iconic tunes beforehand.
But still, an album worthy of Oasis. The reality is that the 10/10, five star reviews was an overreaction but so is the revisionist thinking on the album. The reality is somewhere in between. I’d give it a very solid 7.5/10. It’s a Temple of Doom/Return of the Jedi album, well worth its slot amongst greater and more iconic works. It’s certainly not Kingdom of Crystal Skull/Phantom Menace mess - an embarrassment to the legacy (that would come later!).
Shout out to It’s Gettin Better Man though. Not enough love for this barmy over the top track.
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Post by plaskins1 on Apr 7, 2021 14:11:28 GMT -5
It's my favourite Oasis album. Have to be in the right mood to listen to it all the way through though.
I really wish that Noel had done his rethink on the whole album and didn't give up after two tracks. Wonder when we'll get to hear the My Big Mouth rethink?
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Post by GlastoEls on Apr 7, 2021 14:28:49 GMT -5
Not great... but very good. Too much is made about the production but I like the reckless haphazard nature of it all. The songs are really good but just never reach the sweet spot of the previous albums and b-sides. It was discussed here but much of it can be attributed to weaker choruses up against unbelievable verse melodies (Girl With Dirty Shirt). Too long and they don’t quite have the punch of all those iconic tunes beforehand. But still, an album worthy of Oasis. The reality is that the 10/10, five star reviews was an overreaction but so is the revisionist thinking on the album. The reality is somewhere in between. I’d give it a very solid 7.5/10. It’s a Temple of Doom/Return of the Jedi album, well worth its slot amongst greater and more iconic works. It’s certainly not Kingdom of Crystal Skull/Phantom Menace mess - an embarrassment to the legacy (that would come later!). Shout out to It’s Gettin Better Man though. Not enough love for this barmy over the top track. Ever read a post and agree with every word?
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Post by The Escapist on Apr 7, 2021 16:46:55 GMT -5
It's a glorious album, but it's not a masterpiece.
The song-writing isn't quite as perfect as the first two albums, but neither is any rock song-writing since - it's still a bounty of unbelievable melodies. I've said it before, but the bridges on this thing might just be Noel's peak as a melodist. They are all just unbelievably good, and some other tunes like All Around the World have more catchy tunes in them than some bands manage over a full album. And, of course, it's got Liam singing it. Not peak Liam, I wish he could have sang some songs a bit higher to give them a lighter feel, but still - Liam Gallagher. It's endlessly fun and catchy and joyous. But there are problems. I think to make the album a masterpiece, three big changes would need to be made:
1) Trim the Songs - Not cut them down to four minutes, but just trim the places where they drag. The outro of D'You Know What I Mean and Gettin' Better Man, the chorus of Stand By Me, the second half of Fade In/Out. Not massive cuts, just trims. It's amazing how much punchier a song can be when even just twenty unnecessary seconds are shaved off. All Around the World, for instance, should always be a magnificent carnival of a tune, but there is no way that "and I know what I know..." needed four repetitions.
2) - Save "The Masterplan" for it - Controversial one, but I do think the album needs one more single to push it into masterpiece territory. If The Masterplan had been saved, given Liam vocals, and released in 1998, I think you're talking about another monster hit that could quite possibly have pushed another few million onto the album sales. You might say that The Masterplan would sound rubbish with Be Here Now production, but that leads us onto point three, which is by far the most important.
3) Improve the Arrangements and Production - By far the biggest problem with Be Here Now is that the way the core melodies are brought out often actively works against them. My Big Mouth and Gettin' Better (Man!!) are two of the best tunes Noel ever wrote, but they don't hit as hard as previous bangers because the tunes are masked in the disaster of noise. The album should always have been loud and dense, but things are only loud when there's something quiet to compare it to - the chorus of My Big Mouth is amazing, but play it to a casual listener and they won't even notice that there is a chorus. The whole song just sounds like one guitar slog. If the bridge had dropped the noise out, let that pretty melody twinkle, let the guitars shimmer rather than slam for a second, then when the chorus hits, brought the sound back with a sledgehammer, it'd drive home the dynamics of the songwriting rather than suffocating it. A similar thing could be said for countless songs on the record.
But I don't think it's as simple as just clearing up the noisier moments. The album should really have blended in a lot more different sounds than it did - continuing the progression that Morning Glory was to Definitely Maybe. D'You Know What I Mean should have been the poster child, with it's cinematic strings and sexy bass. A white-hot brass section could have added to the title track like how Liam plays it now, while the wild rock 'n' roll pianos of My Big Mouth's later live performances could have been added to the second set of verses to make that tune more varied. Let the pianos on Stand By Me blend with the guitars. Throw in some crazy choral chant to give the second half of Fade In/Out more ideas. Let us hear that rich keyboard jamming away on Gettin' Better Man. The Masterplan would suit this more ambitious sound too, with the backwards guitars. I know this all sounds a bit OTT, but I think the masterpiece version of Be Here Now is one that is long, loud, and dense with different textures. Whereas the version we got is too long, loud in a way that pulls the songs down, and not nearly imaginative enough with the arrangements to follow up Morning Glory. It's more of a glorious mess than a magnus opus.
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Post by mrsifters80 on Apr 7, 2021 16:49:42 GMT -5
Great write up! Agree on everything you say
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Post by Aman on Apr 7, 2021 18:49:46 GMT -5
As an album it's a slog to listen to from start to finish, the last time I did that it was still such a tough listen. And I can't see myself ever doing it again tbh lol unless I'm drunk.
But individually when you listen to the songs it's got some of my favourite ever Oasis songs on there. (DYKWIM, MBM, SBM and IHITIK)
And all the rest of the tunes are all good listens barring Magic Pie (a dud) and TGITDS (barring the bridge it's a bit drab).
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Post by underneaththesky on Apr 7, 2021 22:44:10 GMT -5
perfect from Z to A
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Post by glider on Apr 8, 2021 2:49:17 GMT -5
Yes /s
It's a bombastic swan song to the period of Britpop excess. A giant party and celebration of youth and overconfidence.
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Post by oasisserbia on Apr 8, 2021 6:17:42 GMT -5
"My Big Mouth and Gettin' Better (Man!!) are two of the best tunes Noel ever wrote"
Lol
It's simple, it is same album as first two, just worse. Fast songs are worse than fast songs on DM and MG, ballads are worse than ballads on DM and MG, production also, lyrics also, songs are too long.
Every Oasis member is bad or at best average at playing their instrument, they weren't creative at studio at all, they weren't creative or innovative at anything.
They had to be perfect at what they know to hide all their flaws. Noel's melodies, Liam's voice plus attitude/feeling/swagger/energy. That was Oasis. Those 3 things were 10/10 on first two albums. Noel started writing a bit worse tunes and everything became average.
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Post by World71R on Apr 8, 2021 11:25:00 GMT -5
It's a glorious album, but it's not a masterpiece. The song-writing isn't quite as perfect as the first two albums, but neither is any rock song-writing since - it's still a bounty of unbelievable melodies. I've said it before, but the bridges on this thing might just be Noel's peak as a melodist. They are all just unbelievably good, and some other tunes like All Around the World have more catchy tunes in them than some bands manage over a full album. And, of course, it's got Liam singing it. Not peak Liam, I wish he could have sang some songs a bit higher to give them a lighter feel, but still - Liam Gallagher. It's endlessly fun and catchy and joyous. But there are problems. I think to make the album a masterpiece, three big changes would need to be made: 1) Trim the Songs - Not cut them down to four minutes, but just trim the places where they drag. The outro of D'You Know What I Mean and Gettin' Better Man, the chorus of Stand By Me, the second half of Fade In/Out. Not massive cuts, just trims. It's amazing how much punchier a song can be when even just twenty unnecessary seconds are shaved off. All Around the World, for instance, should always be a magnificent carnival of a tune, but there is no way that "and I know what I know..." needed four repetitions. 2) - Save "The Masterplan" for it - Controversial one, but I do think the album needs one more single to push it into masterpiece territory. If The Masterplan had been saved, given Liam vocals, and released in 1998, I think you're talking about another monster hit that could quite possibly have pushed another few million onto the album sales. You might say that The Masterplan would sound rubbish with Be Here Now production, but that leads us onto point three, which is by far the most important. 3) Improve the Arrangements and Production - By far the biggest problem with Be Here Now is that the way the core melodies are brought out often actively works against them. My Big Mouth and Gettin' Better (Man!!) are two of the best tunes Noel ever wrote, but they don't hit as hard as previous bangers because the tunes are masked in the disaster of noise. The album should always have been loud and dense, but things are only loud when there's something quiet to compare it to - the chorus of My Big Mouth is amazing, but play it to a casual listener and they won't even notice that there is a chorus. The whole song just sounds like one guitar slog. If the bridge had dropped the noise out, let that pretty melody twinkle, let the guitars shimmer rather than slam for a second, then when the chorus hits, brought the sound back with a sledgehammer, it'd drive home the dynamics of the songwriting rather than suffocating it. A similar thing could be said for countless songs on the record. But I don't think it's as simple as just clearing up the noisier moments. The album should really have blended in a lot more different sounds than it did - continuing the progression that Morning Glory was to Definitely Maybe. D'You Know What I Mean should have been the poster child, with it's cinematic strings and sexy bass. A white-hot brass section could have added to the title track like how Liam plays it now, while the wild rock 'n' roll pianos of My Big Mouth's later live performances could have been added to the second set of verses to make that tune more varied. Let the pianos on Stand By Me blend with the guitars. Throw in some crazy choral chant to give the second half of Fade In/Out more ideas. Let us hear that rich keyboard jamming away on Gettin' Better Man. The Masterplan would suit this more ambitious sound too, with the backwards guitars. I know this all sounds a bit OTT, but I think the masterpiece version of Be Here Now is one that is long, loud, and dense with different textures. Whereas the version we got is too long, loud in a way that pulls the songs down, and not nearly imaginative enough with the arrangements to follow up Morning Glory. It's more of a glorious mess than a magnus opus. This and cosmos's points sum things up really well. The songs on Be Here Now are good on their own but all together in the compressed, overblown haze that it gets put into by the production on the album, it's an exhausting listen that worsens the individual songs and likely what made so many people write off not just the album but also the individual songs even if they were good listens. One thing I can think of is a strings section in My Big Mouth's pre-chorus and bridge with fewer guitars. There are some good guitar parts going on there that fit with the melody but you can't hear it with the same 30 tracks playing that basic melody, and it's awful. Also, imagine The Masterplan coming in after the run of All Around the World, Don't Go Away, and It's Getting Better (Man!!). That would've been one hell of a run and a fantastic end to '90s Oasis (and Britpop).
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Post by tiger40 on Apr 8, 2021 13:09:46 GMT -5
The only good songs on Be Here Now are D' You Know What I Mean? My Big Mouth I Hope I Think I Know Fade In Out Don't Go Away The rest either not that great or are crap.
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Post by tiger40 on Apr 8, 2021 13:11:38 GMT -5
Even songs like (I Got) The Fever and My Sister Lover are way better than most of Be Here Now and I've always liked them. Infact they should have been on the album.
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Post by Parka Flames on Apr 9, 2021 2:15:20 GMT -5
"My Big Mouth and Gettin' Better (Man!!) are two of the best tunes Noel ever wrote" Lol It's simple, it is same album as first two, just worse. Fast songs are worse than fast songs on DM and MG, ballads are worse than ballads on DM and MG, production also, lyrics also, songs are too long. Every Oasis member is bad or at best average at playing their instrument, they weren't creative at studio at all, they weren't creative or innovative at anything. They had to be perfect at what they know to hide all their flaws. Noel's melodies, Liam's voice plus attitude/feeling/swagger/energy. That was Oasis. Those 3 things were 10/10 on first two albums. Noel started writing a bit worse tunes and everything became average. I know Oasis weren't exactly Dream Theater when it came to musical abilities, but to say that they weren't at all creative in the studio is just unfair imo. A lot of Noel's guitar work is very creative and unique.
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Post by The Chief on Apr 9, 2021 6:29:10 GMT -5
It's not.
But... it's not nearly as bad as Noel thinks it is. But I get it, artists are the harshest with their own work.
It's too long of course, we all know that. It diludes the quality of the songs. But, as such, no one can say that
- D'You Know What I Mean? - My Big Mouth - Stand By Me - Fade In-Out - Don't Go Away - All Around The World
are classics.
There are the usual throw away songs ala Hey Now like The Girl in the Dirty Shirt and Be Here Now (the latter was amazing live though).
And Magic Pie is... OK.
So yeah, it's a good record. Not a masterpiece though.
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Post by breakingmad on Apr 9, 2021 6:54:55 GMT -5
'Masterpiece' is too much but...it's excellent..From this album I became a fan.
And at that time, in that context the album looked powerful and forceful. Obviously there are too many guitars and a lot of noise.But each song was important and there were also hymns. Would it have been better with The Masterplan and Going Nowhere? Probably, but at the same time both songs are in a different atmosphere.
The whole album and its b-sides I lived through a lot. Those 3 albums were enough to make Oasis the band of my life.
My favs: ALL.
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Post by World71R on Apr 9, 2021 11:04:50 GMT -5
'Masterpiece' is too much but... it's excellent..From this album I became a fan. And at that time, in that context the album looked powerful and forceful. Obviously there are too many guitars and a lot of noise.But each song was important and there were also hymns. Would it have been better with The Masterplan and Going Nowhere? Probably, but at the same time both songs are in a different atmosphere. The whole album and its b-sides I lived through a lot. Those 3 albums were enough to make Oasis the band of my life. My favs: ALL. I kinda liked having Going Nowhere as a B-side, now that I think of it. To have a song about wanting to be rich and famous be a B-side during an era where it was stupidly obvious that the band was rich and famous was not only highly ironic but also a fulfillment of a promise Noel made before Oasis got big.
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Post by tiger40 on Apr 9, 2021 12:55:34 GMT -5
I've always liked the acoustic version of Stand By Me which Noel and Liam did beside Bonehead's pool. It's so much better than the album version.
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Post by jh on Apr 9, 2021 12:56:58 GMT -5
I've always liked the acoustic version of Stand By Me which Noel and Liam did beside Bonehead's pool. It's so much better than the album version. Yep. I remember watching this on TV the night it aired - That and the corking air studios It's gettin better man!!
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