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Post by Ross on Dec 14, 2020 9:27:54 GMT -5
I haven't listened to Ryan Adams since all the allegations came out primarily because i haven't wanted to. But now there is some new music and i would like to listen to it but i would also feel uneasy doing so. What do you guys think? Is it okay to listen to his new album?
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Post by matt on Dec 14, 2020 11:17:24 GMT -5
The argument about 'art' v 'artist' is genuinely complicated. Ryan Adams is the first singer of who I was a big fan of that had been embroiled in such horrible behaviour.
While I still enjoy his older music, it comes at a price - it will come on shuffle and I will happily have it in the background while not focusing too much on it. But I don't really find myself intentionally going to his music or focusing on it now. Part of the issue is that he is a songwriter in the vain of being emotionally open and the more open a songwriter is, I feel it's harder to listen to them in the face of allegations. The empathy or sympathy you may have which helps you appreciate the music is shot to bits.
The tunes are still there, still pleasant and aurally comforting but it feels like I can't get close to them anymore. It's a horrible feeling when an album that is close to your heart, in this case Gold or Prisoner from 2017 (which was one of my favourite albums that year) has to be listened to at a distance, the only thing keeping you listening to it is the good memories of the times you had when you first listened to it.
In that sense, I won't likely listen to his new music. Curiosity will seek out a couple of tunes on the off chance here and there, but always with a sense of great regret in thinking I could easily love this, but the sense of abandon that music should provide just won't be there with conflicting thoughts.
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Post by LightsOffInside on Dec 14, 2020 11:41:47 GMT -5
God I'm glad someone asked this question, I have absolutely no idea. His last album was absolutely fantastic, and after it I became a big fan, then less than 2 years later the stuff about him came out. I haven't really listened since but I can't decide whether to go back in or not.
I think people are a bit quick to cancel people forever, however it depends massively on the severity of the crimes. He treated those women appallingly, and if there was sufficient evidence that he made the proper apologies then I could probably get past it.
But the stuff about the underage fan - you can't come back from that, it's a massive step too far. I think unless that was proven to be false or incorrect, I'd struggle to listen again, no matter how much I want to listen to the new album.
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Post by tiger40 on Dec 14, 2020 14:20:14 GMT -5
I've never been a fan of him to be honest and even if I was I doubt that I would want to listen to him now not after what's happened.
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Ryan Adams
Dec 14, 2020 16:28:55 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by funhouse on Dec 14, 2020 16:28:55 GMT -5
I might listen to some new song, but knowing what he did, I have no intrest in hearing anything more about love, because I'm not risking getting attached to a new song if there's a chance that he wrote it while thinking of a 14 year old.
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Howdo
Oasis Roadie
Listen kids, i'd rather walk!
Posts: 484
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Post by Howdo on Jan 9, 2021 11:04:31 GMT -5
I quite enjoyed his new album to be fair, his albums are hit and miss. Gold, Heartbreaker and his self titled album are just outstanding albums so after what he’s been accused of isn’t going to stop me listening to them albums. I will still buy his albums because I like his music but doubt I’ll go and see him live again although he does put on a good show.
I totally understand why people can’t bring themselves to buy his albums anymore tho but can you honestly look through your record collections and say each of the artists/bands are all squeaky clean? Especially with bands in the 60’s and 70’s when things like what Adams has done would have happened a lot more but it was seen as ok back then.
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Post by 2nz on Jan 11, 2021 11:15:22 GMT -5
There's something particularly galling about Ryan's actions. The fact that he portrayed himself as a tortured but sensitive soul, who worked closely with female artists, to turn out to be an abuser and use that position of power to force himself on them.
Musically- I've not gone near Wednesdays. His insincerity in his social media posts I just can't get past.
It's a false position on my part- it's hypocritical that I've listened to countless artists who have done worse, and excuse their behaviour for various reasons.
Anyway- he's done some of my favourite ever tunes- Dear Chicago off Demolition being a personal highlight. Heartbreaker and Gold being stone cold classic albums too.
I've not went back to them since all this broke though. Just went Cold (roses) turkey on him.
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Ryan Adams
Jan 11, 2021 14:08:24 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by funhouse on Jan 11, 2021 14:08:24 GMT -5
Decided to listen to the first song off the album, and the first line of the entire album turned out to be "I remember you before you hated me".
I did not continue listening much longer after that. With that kind of victim complex it's amazing he's not a Trump supporter.
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Post by welshylad on Jan 14, 2021 3:49:25 GMT -5
He's been cleared of any wrong doing apparently
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2021 6:08:14 GMT -5
Interesting. The New York Times claimed there were inappropriate video calls and texts, but the FBI has found no evidence.
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Post by andymorris on Dec 26, 2022 11:03:53 GMT -5
Well after a long time wondering if i should listen to them records again. I did. And i missed them.
I read everything i could about this story before going back to them. And it seems more grey than any other #metoo affair. I mean, women accusing him are not exactly known for being all nice after all. There's always two sides of every story.
It took me a really long time, it was a tough decision, but what decided me was the one were he was cleared about the teenage girl. There's actual proof that he did repeteadly ask for his age and the FBI didnt press charges, the girl herself saying nothing wrong happened. This was really bothering me really. Pedo is just no.
Anyway, the rest seem like fucked up relationships. And needy women hooking up with the classic tortured artist that end up kinda "torturing" them mentally because he's sick. There's wasn't any rape, assault or anything that is punished by law apparently. So far anyway, or they would have pressed charges ?
Also noting that other women went on to say nothing wrong happened during their tours with him and that it was actually one of the "safest" tour they did as a women in the music industry.
But shitty husband / boyfriend ? probably, most likely. I mean just be listening to his records you know this guys isn't marriage material. Like, at all.
The record will live next to him tortured personality. Just like any genius, he just cant live with anyone. And i hope it doesn't happen again.
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Post by andymorris on Jan 1, 2023 12:15:57 GMT -5
If anyone is interested, here is an interesting video about the accusations, those women and a view from a (very annoying) guy who worked with Ryan Adams.
Obviously not taking everything as truth here, but some great points.
Annoying that those articles cancelling people are not followed by some counter investigation, really.
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Post by matt on Jan 1, 2023 12:37:01 GMT -5
If anyone is interested, here is an interesting video about the accusations, those women and a view from a (very annoying) guy who worked with Ryan Adams. Obviously not taking everything as truth here, but some great points. Annoying that those articles cancelling people are not followed by some counter investigation, really. Any way you look at it, the whole thing is ugly. It might not be a simple case of good v evil, but the whole episode still tarnishes his music for me. For me, it’s hard to accept that an openly heartfelt and sensitive songwriter like Adams could be embroiled in this but human beings are complex. With even the mildest form of idol worship, you’re bound to be disappointed. I tend to believe people who are emotionally attuned in their songs like Adams are not like that but that’s my naivety more than anything.
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Post by andymorris on Jan 1, 2023 13:29:16 GMT -5
If anyone is interested, here is an interesting video about the accusations, those women and a view from a (very annoying) guy who worked with Ryan Adams. Obviously not taking everything as truth here, but some great points. Annoying that those articles cancelling people are not followed by some counter investigation, really. Any way you look at it, the whole thing is ugly. It might not be a simple case of good v evil, but the whole episode still tarnishes his music for me. For me, it’s hard to accept that an openly heartfelt and sensitive songwriter like Adams could be embroiled in this but human beings are complex. With even the mildest form of idol worship, you’re bound to be disappointed. I tend to believe people who are emotionally attuned in their songs like Adams are not like that but that’s my naivety more than anything. Well, as for his personality, obviously ever since he released stuff like Love is Hell, or Rock n Roll... i mean, with a little common sense, you just know this guy is fucked up. Songs like Fuck the Universe, I see Monsters for instance. He's angry at the world, it was right here in Love is Hell, all of it. You don't write tunes like that if your are "normal" and can handle the difficulties of marriage. What's interesting in the video is how they balance the so called power he had, especially on Karen Elson, Brigers and Moore. Obviously they know things on them and can't say much in fear on being sued. But it feels like a typical show business affair, where people blame other people for their career failure. In the end, was there something wrong ? seems like there wasn't. The Phoebe Bridgers case especially screams like a big lie. She's too involved in many scandals to be the poor little girl she claims to be. Adams is not innocent obviously, and he should have behaved better with those women. Like most of the whole music industry. I haven't listened to his music for years just coz of the NYT article. Just like any other person my reaction was let's forget about him. But years pass, people start to talk... the more you dig, the more it seems... really, really grey. How many other artists could be cancelled with similar events ? Liam ? Maybe Noel ? The whole Zeppelin, Bowie, maybe even the Beatles (Lennon, i mean...). Why him ? It feels like a personal vandetta of a small group of LA people very close to each other. Like "let's take down that guy" kind of article. When you read it 3 years later, there is no real substance once you really look at the accusations, the facts and the FBI that closed the case.
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Post by carlober on Jan 1, 2023 13:31:32 GMT -5
He might have been a shit human being in many situations and he still is a very problematic and unstable guy. No one can't deny that. I've always been a big fan of him and his work, especially his more recent albums: the self-titled and Prisoner are two of my personal highlight from the 2010 years, but after the allegations came out I was ashamed, I almost felt betrayed. I didn't listen to his music for months, but some of his songs had and still have such a deep connection with myself that I eventually went back - gradually - to his music. Now it's clear from what emerged after the scandal that he's no Harvey Weinstein or R. Kelly. He's not a monster. He hasn't beaten his wife, he hasn't raped a 14yo girl, he's not a sexual predator: these things would make himself beyond salvation. The most shocking accusation, i.e. the FBI investigation about his sexting with an underage girl, was dropped almost immediately but this fact wasn't reported until two years later. The largest media companies that accused him have never reported the dismissal. The rest of the allegations - which are mainly about his incapability of having a sane relationship with women - are nothing out of the ordinary if you take into account both sides. Mind me: I'm not in any way justifying him or his behaviour: some of it was unacceptable and disgusting. I'm just saying that things like these aren't uncommon when you are a flawed human being and you have a serious problem with addiction to alcohol, drugs, painkillers, sex or whatever else. He definitely had to be helped. And if you have read Ryan's side of the story, you'll have understood that in this situation things aren't black are white, but there are many shades of grey... I'm happy to see that he's trying to re-emerge, but things are hard for him. Almost no one wants to be associated with his name anymore, not even band members. Let alone a record label. Music websites and magazines haven't written anything about his recent output or - if they did - they put the usual snide remarks in the articles. I hope things can change in the coming months, after the successful solo shows he's been doing recently. In the end, I believe in catharsis and redemption and I think that this man deserves a second chance. It would be a huge waste of talent.
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Post by Manualex on Jan 1, 2023 13:40:18 GMT -5
Good that he is trying, but I wasn't a fan back then and I'm not going to be onwards. Can Noel release a new track/demo for new years? 😅
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Post by andymorris on Jan 3, 2023 3:29:45 GMT -5
Yeah we have to give him another chance I think, it was obviously blown out of proportion and something that should have stayed between them.
Back to the music.
That cover of Elvis Presley, oh my god. Almost as good as the original
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Post by andymorris on Jan 3, 2023 3:31:10 GMT -5
Good that he is trying, but I wasn't a fan back then and I'm not going to be onwards. You should try though, every album is a different artist, because the music is so different. The guy has like 500 different persons inside his body
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Post by andymorris on Jan 5, 2023 7:03:20 GMT -5
Only getting to Wednesdays now, 2 years later. Whata record.
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Post by durk on Jan 5, 2023 8:28:40 GMT -5
He might have been a shit human being in many situations and he still is a very problematic and unstable guy. No one can't deny that. I've always been a big fan of him and his work, especially his more recent albums: the self-titled and Prisoner are two of my personal highlight from the 2010 years, but after the allegations came out I was ashamed, I almost felt betrayed. I didn't listen to his music for months, but some of his songs had and still have such a deep connection with myself that I eventually went back - gradually - to his music. Now it's clear from what emerged after the scandal that he's no Harvey Weinstein or R. Kelly. He's not a monster. He hasn't beaten his wife, he hasn't raped a 14yo girl, he's not a sexual predator: these things would make himself beyond salvation. The most shocking accusation, i.e. the FBI investigation about his sexting with an underage girl, was dropped almost immediately but this fact wasn't reported until two years later. The largest media companies that accused him have never reported the dismissal. The rest of the allegations - which are mainly about his incapability of having a sane relationship with women - are nothing out of the ordinary if you take into account both sides. Mind me: I'm not in any way justifying him or his behaviour: some of it was unacceptable and disgusting. I'm just saying that things like these aren't uncommon when you are a flawed human being and you have a serious problem with addiction to alcohol, drugs, painkillers, sex or whatever else. He definitely had to be helped. And if you have read Ryan's side of the story, you'll have understood that in this situation things aren't black are white, but there are many shades of grey... I'm happy to see that he's trying to re-emerge, but things are hard for him. Almost no one wants to be associated with his name anymore, not even band members. Let alone a record label. Music websites and magazines haven't written anything about his recent output or - if they did - they put the usual snide remarks in the articles. I hope things can change in the coming months, after the successful solo shows he's been doing recently. In the end, I believe in catharsis and redemption and I think that this man deserves a second chance. It would be a huge waste of talent. this is spot on and my feelings exactly.
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Post by durk on Jan 5, 2023 8:29:49 GMT -5
ps. i'm way more grossed out by Win Butler of Arcade Fire at this point. And he's been far from cancelled.
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Post by matt on Jan 5, 2023 13:51:34 GMT -5
He might have been a shit human being in many situations and he still is a very problematic and unstable guy. No one can't deny that. I've always been a big fan of him and his work, especially his more recent albums: the self-titled and Prisoner are two of my personal highlight from the 2010 years, but after the allegations came out I was ashamed, I almost felt betrayed. I didn't listen to his music for months, but some of his songs had and still have such a deep connection with myself that I eventually went back - gradually - to his music. Now it's clear from what emerged after the scandal that he's no Harvey Weinstein or R. Kelly. He's not a monster. He hasn't beaten his wife, he hasn't raped a 14yo girl, he's not a sexual predator: these things would make himself beyond salvation. The most shocking accusation, i.e. the FBI investigation about his sexting with an underage girl, was dropped almost immediately but this fact wasn't reported until two years later. The largest media companies that accused him have never reported the dismissal. The rest of the allegations - which are mainly about his incapability of having a sane relationship with women - are nothing out of the ordinary if you take into account both sides. Mind me: I'm not in any way justifying him or his behaviour: some of it was unacceptable and disgusting. I'm just saying that things like these aren't uncommon when you are a flawed human being and you have a serious problem with addiction to alcohol, drugs, painkillers, sex or whatever else. He definitely had to be helped. And if you have read Ryan's side of the story, you'll have understood that in this situation things aren't black are white, but there are many shades of grey... I'm happy to see that he's trying to re-emerge, but things are hard for him. Almost no one wants to be associated with his name anymore, not even band members. Let alone a record label. Music websites and magazines haven't written anything about his recent output or - if they did - they put the usual snide remarks in the articles. I hope things can change in the coming months, after the successful solo shows he's been doing recently. In the end, I believe in catharsis and redemption and I think that this man deserves a second chance. It would be a huge waste of talent. Good post, I read that article you linked, the whole thing is incredibly sad. There's no doubt he's a broken man, before and after the allegations. Personally when I hear his music, it's a tangle of emotions. I do think there's many grey areas here. But do I allow myself to think that because I like his music? By principle, I don't tend to give people second chances with these things. But that's easy for me to do if I think their music is shit. So is it a contradiction/hypocrisy on my part to excuse myself listening to this or do I go with the latter and believe in the sincerity here. The music makes me think there is sincerity there and it opens that portal to understanding (or maybe I just think it does). I just listened to one of his new songs Chris about his brother who died in 2017. I think it's beautiful, moved me to tears. His songs still plunge depths of feeling that others don't. Songs like that makes you acknowledge the complexities of people, accepting these complexities is a harder thing to do for me. Does good art allow you to excuse their behaviour? Of course not, but maybe it allows you to understand them better or maybe is it manipulative? I'm torn but I totally accept posts such as yours above.
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Post by matt on Jan 5, 2023 19:51:07 GMT -5
I haven't listened to any of his albums since Prisoner (an album that I absolutely loved).
For those that have listened, where do they rank relatively to his other albums?
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Post by norkbauer on Jan 5, 2023 20:13:11 GMT -5
I haven't listened to any of his albums since Prisoner (an album that I absolutely loved). For those that have listened, where do they rank relatively to his other albums? After Prisoner, the only one I've listened (and sometimes go back) is Big Colors. There are some very good tunes on it, enjoyable listen.
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Post by andymorris on Jan 6, 2023 2:45:51 GMT -5
I haven't listened to any of his albums since Prisoner (an album that I absolutely loved). For those that have listened, where do they rank relatively to his other albums? Just digging in the past few days : my fav is Wednesdays. It sounds like an early Adams record. Mostly acoustic. I recommend this one, it's probably the only one that is up there with his early 00s works. At least so far for me (that could change anyday !) There's also many outtakes from Wednesdays on youtube that are as good as the record itself. You can find them here on YT (i suspect it's Ryan himself posting all those songs, the guy has got everything) www.youtube.com/@graciousfewThen if you dig alt-rock from the US, Devolver is pretty good. It sounds mostly like an early 00s Weezer or Fountains of Wayne record, but it has a few U2 esque tunes that i dislike (since i dont really like U2) but overall it's a pretty fun record. It's a bit like III / IV from 2010, which was his Strokes record. Chris I can't get into for now, same for FM. Big Colors is not my cup of tea. Ryan Adams did better 80s record before (Rock n Roll is a must listen). Romeo & Juliet has yet to click too. Maybe because this one and Chris are very long records, they take time to grab your ear. There's just so many tunes to ingest, that's it's hard to give a definitive ranking yet, for me, after that 3 years ban. Lots to catch up. If you like Prisoner, maybe you've heard or Prisoners B sides ? It's another full record. The guy just never stops, it's crazy. Maybe the most prolific songwriter ever.
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