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Post by girllikeabomb on Jul 10, 2021 12:23:00 GMT -5
I think Paul is also the most adventurous. I mean the man has done so many genres! Was listening to McCartney II recently, and thought it would have been great if he'd released it as a double album. There's a lot of good ideas, and some individually great great songs there but as a whole it doesn't feel substantial enough to be a single coherent album. Better to make it a box of tricks and release all the extra songs he did during those sessions in his Campbeltown studio. Always thought he was the most adventurous. As a solo Beatle, he had a slow start compared to Lennon and Harrison. And in fairness, none of his solo albums peak like Plastic Ono Band and All Things Must Pass (Imagine can do one as far as I'm concerned) but after 1972 he's speeding off into the distance in terms of quality compared to the other two. Seems worth pointing out that Paul McCartney is just about twice the age now that John Lennon was at his death. And if you're counting after 1972, Lennon only had 8 of those years (most of which were spent raising Sean). Impossible to know what the second half of John's life (and music) might have been like, but don't think you can compare a full life to one cut short in its prime. |
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Post by matt on Jul 10, 2021 12:47:46 GMT -5
Was listening to McCartney II recently, and thought it would have been great if he'd released it as a double album. There's a lot of good ideas, and some individually great great songs there but as a whole it doesn't feel substantial enough to be a single coherent album. Better to make it a box of tricks and release all the extra songs he did during those sessions in his Campbeltown studio. Always thought he was the most adventurous. As a solo Beatle, he had a slow start compared to Lennon and Harrison. And in fairness, none of his solo albums peak like Plastic Ono Band and All Things Must Pass (Imagine can do one as far as I'm concerned) but after 1972 he's speeding off into the distance in terms of quality compared to the other two. Seems worth pointing out that Paul McCartney is just about twice the age now that John Lennon was at his death. And if you're counting after 1972, Lennon only had 8 of those years (most of which were spent raising Sean). Impossible to know what the second half of John's life (and music) might have been like, but don't think you can compare a full life to one cut short in its prime. He did have a purple patch of songwriting at the end of his life, but the prior albums before he apparently became 'a househusband' are risible. I always hear that if Lennon was alive today, he'd be experimenting with weird electronic dance beats, which is absolute nonsense and just the kind of myth making bollocks typical of Lennon. This is a man who angrily shouted 'we're a fucking rock n roll band' when McCartney and Martin had ambitions of making Abbey Road one entire medley (so they compromised in the end). His solo albums show no musical progression and become derivative the later on in his career. He was very much rooted in the 50s/60s rock n roll era with no ear on what modern sounds were out there. With Harrison on the wane in the mid-70s, only McCartney releasing anything that could be considered good. |
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Post by girllikeabomb on Jul 10, 2021 13:59:17 GMT -5
Seems worth pointing out that Paul McCartney is just about twice the age now that John Lennon was at his death. And if you're counting after 1972, Lennon only had 8 of those years (most of which were spent raising Sean). Impossible to know what the second half of John's life (and music) might have been like, but don't think you can compare a full life to one cut short in its prime. He did have a purple patch of songwriting at the end of his life, but the prior albums before he apparently became 'a househusband' are risible. I always hear that if Lennon was alive today, he'd be experimenting with weird electronic dance beats, which is absolute nonsense and just the kind of myth making bollocks typical of Lennon. This is a man who angrily shouted 'we're a fucking rock n roll band' when McCartney and Martin had ambitions of making Abbey Road one entire medley (so they compromised in the end). His solo albums show no musical progression and become derivative the later on in his career. He was very much rooted in the 50s/60s rock n roll era with no eye on what modern sounds were out there. With Harrison on the wane in the mid-70s, only McCartney releasing anything that could be considered good. I don't think Lennon would be doing "weird electronic dance beats" were he still alive and I have no idea who seriously does think that (the substance of his work was never remotely leading to the dance music realm) but that's not what I would personally call "adventurous." He was actually quite well versed in modern music and world music if you read some of his interviews, and had a long-standing and obvious interest in the avant-garde world, particularly through Yoko. Truthfully, none of us has a single clue what he would have done nor how he would have evolved on any level. He could have become a film director or novelist for all you know. People can change a lot in their 40s, 50s and 60s and the world changed a lot since 1980, which he never experienced. The examples of artists having an unforeseen second half to their lives are too numerous to list. Even Liam Gallagher is now 8 years older than Lennon ever was. He died very, very, very young. Seems fine to say you prefer McCartney's albums of the mid-70s. That's one opinion as good as any other. But you can't say anything about Lennon's future music; that's absurd. If you can, then you might as well start telling us how the world ends ... |
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Post by andymorris on Jul 12, 2021 1:54:48 GMT -5
I truly believe John Lennon would have retired from music or made an half arsed album every 10 years. He wasn't really the innovative one, and seemed happy to be out the limelight.
I picture him doing other stuff, like movies, directing or acting, or painting. Or just living. He gave all he had to give musicwise up until 74. after that...
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Post by Gas Panic on Jul 12, 2021 8:12:12 GMT -5
I truly believe John Lennon would have retired from music or made an half arsed album every 10 years. He wasn't really the innovative one, and seemed happy to be out the limelight. I picture him doing other stuff, like movies, directing or acting, or painting. Or just living. He gave all he had to give musicwise up until 74. after that... Lennon planned on being very active for the early 80s at least. In interviews just before he died there was talk of a big return to touring and he was already thinking about his 3rd post hiatus album. His rivalry with McCartney alone would have got him back in the studio fairly often throughout the 80s and beyond in my opinion. |
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Post by andymorris on Jul 12, 2021 8:30:50 GMT -5
I truly believe John Lennon would have retired from music or made an half arsed album every 10 years. He wasn't really the innovative one, and seemed happy to be out the limelight. I picture him doing other stuff, like movies, directing or acting, or painting. Or just living. He gave all he had to give musicwise up until 74. after that... Lennon planned on being very active for the early 80s at least. In interviews just before he died there was talk of a big return to touring and he was already thinking about his 3rd post hiatus album. His rivalry with McCartney alone would have got him back in the studio fairly often throughout the 80s and beyond in my opinion. We'll never know wont we ? Lennon wasn't exactly that prolific in the late 70s, half of his last album was Ono songs. Maybe one big tour but then... He was probably talking big like Liam and Noel do sometime, and then we get a compilation with acoustic versions recorded in one afternoon (wink wink NG). With Sean growing up, he didn't want to be away, no way he would have toured a lot. And if you look at Milk and Honey and outtakes the Beatles had access to, there wasn't that many songs left... Maybe he was hoping, but up until his death, he didn't have the material. |
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Post by girllikeabomb on Jul 12, 2021 14:07:47 GMT -5
We'll never know wont we ? Lennon wasn't exactly that prolific in the late 70s, half of his last album was Ono songs. Maybe one big tour but then... He was probably talking big like Liam and Noel do sometime, and then we get a compilation with acoustic versions recorded in one afternoon (wink wink NG). With Sean growing up, he didn't want to be away, no way he would have toured a lot. And if you look at Milk and Honey and outtakes the Beatles had access to, there wasn't that many songs left... Maybe he was hoping, but up until his death, he didn't have the material. The bolded above is the only possible non-silly take. No one knows, no one can know and the very last people on earth who might have a barely insightful guess are those who think a man's entire future is simple and obvious. Crazy arrogance to think you could ever really predict four incredibly eventful and history-altering decades of a complicated, ever-changing person's life and art -- especially a person you don't remotely know and are interpreting through some lens of whatever you read in the media and your vague impressions of the last few years of his existence. Idle chatter I suppose, so have at it. But it's good to remember that even if you're dead and famous, you were still a real person, not a cut-out doll to be posed by people as they like. |
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Post by andymorris on Jul 12, 2021 23:58:51 GMT -5
We'll never know wont we ? Lennon wasn't exactly that prolific in the late 70s, half of his last album was Ono songs. Maybe one big tour but then... He was probably talking big like Liam and Noel do sometime, and then we get a compilation with acoustic versions recorded in one afternoon (wink wink NG). With Sean growing up, he didn't want to be away, no way he would have toured a lot. And if you look at Milk and Honey and outtakes the Beatles had access to, there wasn't that many songs left... Maybe he was hoping, but up until his death, he didn't have the material. The bolded above is the only possible non-silly take. No one knows, no one can know and the very last people on earth who might have a barely insightful guess are those who think a man's entire future is simple and obvious. Crazy arrogance to think you could ever really predict four incredibly eventful and history-altering decades of a complicated, ever-changing person's life and art -- especially a person you don't remotely know and are interpreting through some lens of whatever you read in the media and your vague impressions of the last few years of his existence. Idle chatter I suppose, so have at it. But it's good to remember that even if you're dead and famous, you were still a real person, not a cut-out doll to be posed by people as they like. You become a doll for people to play with day 1 when you are famous. I dont see the harm in speculating about what Lennon could have become, its an opinion not a fact. I never Saïd it was the truth. And Lennon was as much a player as we are. He made his own doll in the early 70s, before that he was « just » one of the Beatles As long as i dont camp in front of his house trying to break in can i still speculate ? People are praying gods they have never seen, i think its ok to say i think Lennon wouldnt have made much more albums or tours. He Saïd many times he had regrets about julian and didnt want to do the same to Sean, being an absent father This is my opinion from the interviews i read of him. Again, not fact. |
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Post by girllikeabomb on Jul 13, 2021 14:29:00 GMT -5
You become a doll for people to play with day 1 when you are famous. I dont see the harm in speculating about what Lennon could have become, its an opinion not a fact. I never Saïd it was the truth. And Lennon was as much a player as we are. He made his own doll in the early 70s, before that he was « just » one of the Beatles As long as i dont camp in front of his house trying to break in can i still speculate ? People are praying gods they have never seen, i think its ok to say i think Lennon wouldnt have made much more albums or tours. He Saïd many times he had regrets about julian and didnt want to do the same to Sean, being an absent father This is my opinion from the interviews i read of him. Again, not fact. Naturally, I can't stop you from speculating about the dead. As I said, have at it. I merely find it entirely silly and a wee bit dehumanizing when it's done so casually and based on so very little, so I can say that, too. The thing is that as a writer myself if I'd try to guess 10 years ago what I'd be writing about today, I'd be so wrong, it's ridiculous. And I supposedly know my own mind (to some degree, anyway!) Imagine a total stranger guessing at it (it isn't hard to do.) Who even saw the last ten years coming? (A few people saw independent chunks of it, but not the whole thing.) There are so many things that happened in the world, in technology, in politics, in culture, in the recording industry itself ... and so many that would have happened in Lennon's personal life since 1980 (even Sean would be a different person if his father wasn't assassinated, I'm sure you'd agree, and in any event would have become an adult in 1994, so raising him would not have been a factor for very long), it's entirely unfathomable to know how all those things would have affected what he wrote or how he engaged. But, yeah, I get that it's just a game, like the ever-popular what if Germany had won WWII. Just wanted to put out a reminder that actual people aren't static and are a whole lot more complicated than games. Lennon in particular was quite a complicated (and often contradictory and shifting) man. I guess I just respect that. I certainly wonder what he'd be like or what he would have done (or not done) in the second half of his life had he lived, but I wouldn't presume to know a single thing. |
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Post by glider on Jul 13, 2021 14:55:08 GMT -5
Speaking of what ifs, the hypothesized Beatles reunion in the 80s probably would've stunk.
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Post by andymorris on Jul 15, 2021 8:43:53 GMT -5
You become a doll for people to play with day 1 when you are famous. I dont see the harm in speculating about what Lennon could have become, its an opinion not a fact. I never Saïd it was the truth. And Lennon was as much a player as we are. He made his own doll in the early 70s, before that he was « just » one of the Beatles As long as i dont camp in front of his house trying to break in can i still speculate ? People are praying gods they have never seen, i think its ok to say i think Lennon wouldnt have made much more albums or tours. He Saïd many times he had regrets about julian and didnt want to do the same to Sean, being an absent father This is my opinion from the interviews i read of him. Again, not fact. Naturally, I can't stop you from speculating about the dead. As I said, have at it. I merely find it entirely silly and a wee bit dehumanizing when it's done so casually and based on so very little, so I can say that, too. The thing is that as a writer myself if I'd try to guess 10 years ago what I'd be writing about today, I'd be so wrong, it's ridiculous. And I supposedly know my own mind (to some degree, anyway!) Imagine a total stranger guessing at it (it isn't hard to do.) Who even saw the last ten years coming? (A few people saw independent chunks of it, but not the whole thing.) There are so many things that happened in the world, in technology, in politics, in culture, in the recording industry itself ... and so many that would have happened in Lennon's personal life since 1980 (even Sean would be a different person if his father wasn't assassinated, I'm sure you'd agree, and in any event would have become an adult in 1994, so raising him would not have been a factor for very long), it's entirely unfathomable to know how all those things would have affected what he wrote or how he engaged. But, yeah, I get that it's just a game, like the ever-popular what if Germany had won WWII. Just wanted to put out a reminder that actual people aren't static and are a whole lot more complicated than games. Lennon in particular was quite a complicated (and often contradictory and shifting) man. I guess I just respect that. I certainly wonder what he'd be like or what he would have done (or not done) in the second half of his life had he lived, but I wouldn't presume to know a single thing. It's hard to disagree with what you say, we dont know know BUT (  ) characters like Lennon need a drive to create. He never was McCartney or Damon Albarn, who take music as a day job, and can write about anything. They just do music, that's what they do. Lennon never did. He was a writer with melodies. Lennon needed to have things to say, mostly about himself through social events (but always mainly about himself), that's why he dried out in the later days of his career. He just didn't have anything to say because he seemed (seemed, again, i dont know) to have find inner peace with Yoko and Sean. Songs like Real Love, Free as a Bird, Watching the Wheels and Grow Old With Me testify of that state of mind. They are just so peaceful. Maybe he would have been motivated by outside events, wars and stuff, or bored by family life in the late 80s, or by the revival in the 90s. But i dont think he would have, he was a bit out of the grid in the middle of NYC. And once you're out, you're out, it's hard to go back in the real world. Take also into account that Beatles members were considered has been until the anthology in the 90s, and you dont get to imagine Lennon touring and doing a lot of records. Again, that's a view of the of the character he was and he could have gone into soft core porn or just sell hot dogs in Central Park instead. Or go Rap. Who knows. but i like to speculate and think about what could have been, in an alternate universe. And to be honest, many many scientists predicted the pandemic, for instance. Or historian on religious wars. Future, sometimes, is not that hard to anticipate  Cheers, always enjoy talking to you.  |
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Post by andymorris on Jul 15, 2021 8:44:43 GMT -5
Speaking of what ifs, the hypothesized Beatles reunion in the 80s probably would've stunk. Oh yeah, the 80s was laughing at the Beatles. So hard. They have to thank Oasis and the britpop for being in again. |
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Post by girllikeabomb on Jul 15, 2021 15:23:23 GMT -5
Again, that's a view of the of the character he was and he could have gone into soft core porn or just sell hot dogs in Central Park instead. Or go Rap. Who knows. but i like to speculate and think about what could have been, in an alternate universe. And to be honest, many many scientists predicted the pandemic, for instance. Or historian on religious wars. Future, sometimes, is not that hard to anticipate Cheers, always enjoy talking to you. Hahaha. I appreciate andymorris that you stop me from taking myself too seriously I admit it's hard for me with Lennon. It's not that I think he's some untouchable hero. He was a super flawed (if evolving) human being. But as a child who could not really handle the world around me, he pretty much saved my life. Lots of people have someone who lets them know you can feel things deeply and still be OK and Lennon happened to be that for me. So I'll defend his right to have kept getting better and better to the death.  I'm with you that he had found a real peace in that moment before his death, and in that way that we crave for stories to have a circular ending, it seems in a way fitting that he ended there. I can't really agree, though, that this peace would never have been shaken over the next 40 years. As you say very beautifully, he was a writer (albeit one with melodies) and well ... so far as I've known, writers are rarely at peace for long. Paul Simon is another writer with melodies ... and he's gone through a lot of phases (even wrote a Broadway play for godssakes.) But it's interesting to me that he didn't write Graceland until he was 45 or the equally brilliant Rhythm of the Saints until he was nearly 50. Lennon never saw 45. Maybe he would never have touched a pen again, but that would be a very odd exception and the possibilities were nearly infinite. It is fairly simple to predict some things about the future in broad strokes (not hard to predict for example that the Western USA is going to be on fire for 6 months of the year soon or that you will be disappointed by Liam Gallagher's 3rd album  ) but much harder to predict the details or the way it will all fit together. As the sci-fi writer William Gibson once said: "The future is already here, it's just unevenly distributed." But if I have to choose from your alternate universes, I'll take the one where Lennon is selling hotdogs on the corner by day, writing about everything he sees at night. I can live with that. |
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Post by girllikeabomb on Jul 15, 2021 20:03:15 GMT -5
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Post by madferitusa2025 on Jul 16, 2021 6:06:31 GMT -5
Under The Volcano.
Not strictly Beatles related, but looks very interesting. Lots of home movie clips and inside stories.
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Post by yeayeayeah on Jul 16, 2021 20:25:02 GMT -5
Speaking of what ifs, the hypothesized Beatles reunion in the 80s probably would've stunk. I'm glad they never really got back together. I think it would have tarnished their legacy. They ended still in their 20's and at the peak of their game, Abbey Road was going to be called Everest. It's sad when thinking about their friendship that all four were never in the same room after late 69 (as far as anyone knows). 80s Beatles with mullets wouldn't have been cool!! I do love the whole Anthology project and Free As a Bird but I don't really count that as a full reunion for obvious reasons. |
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Post by yeayeayeah on Jul 16, 2021 20:30:07 GMT -5
I've just finished episode three. Enjoyable for the most part. Paul has had a habit of repeating the same anecdotes for the past 30 years "it couldn't get much worse". What I like is seeing Paul listen to his past work. It's a special thing to see a historical figure reflect on his life. We're lucky to still have him around. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2021 2:05:01 GMT -5
I might be being thick, but can someone tell me what platform the McCartney 3,2,1 show is on in the UK?!
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Post by girllikeabomb on Jul 17, 2021 15:34:52 GMT -5
I've just finished episode three. Enjoyable for the most part. Paul has had a habit of repeating the same anecdotes for the past 30 years "it couldn't get much worse". What I like is seeing Paul listen to his past work. It's a special thing to see a historical figure reflect on his life. We're lucky to still have him around. You got right on that! Nice review. |
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Post by girllikeabomb on Jul 17, 2021 15:38:09 GMT -5
I might be being thick, but can someone tell me what platform the McCartney 3,2,1 show is on in the UK?! It's not you. Disney-Plus has international rights but for whatever reason UK Disney Plus isn't carrying it yet. Disney Plus in Aus/NZ/CA has it. Very odd. |
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Post by andymorris on Jul 18, 2021 3:35:49 GMT -5
I feel like McCartney has been talking about the Beatles non stop for the past 30 years. Must be exhausting. Of course i will still watch it with passion. |
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Post by girllikeabomb on Jul 18, 2021 15:18:03 GMT -5
I feel like McCartney has been talking about the Beatles non stop for the past 30 years. Must be exhausting. Of course i will still watch it with passion. If there's one thing I've learned about famous people it's that, although they might get exhausted by fame, they very rarely get bored with talking about the thing they did so brilliantly that it made them famous ... (Even Noel often enjoys talking about Oasis, he just doesn't like when he's on the defensive.) |
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Post by andymorris on Jul 19, 2021 0:44:27 GMT -5
I feel like McCartney has been talking about the Beatles non stop for the past 30 years. Must be exhausting. Of course i will still watch it with passion. If there's one thing I've learned about famous people it's that, although they might get exhausted by fame, they very rarely get bored with talking about the thing they did so brilliantly that it made them famous ... (Even Noel often enjoys talking about Oasis, he just doesn't like when he's on the defensive.) Yeah i guess, plus Macca is still very proud of his Beatles days and always talks about it in a very positive way. I dont know where that guy got this energy though. he's a machine. I swear he'll still be up and runnin at 100 yo. |
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Post by andymorris on Jul 20, 2021 0:58:54 GMT -5
July is usually Beatles listening month for me.
Then august is Wings month
Early september is usually Macca solo stuff.
Every.Year.
Weird. (October is rehab with NG stuff).
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Post by girllikeabomb on Jul 20, 2021 3:02:58 GMT -5
July is usually Beatles listening month for me. Then august is Wings month Early september is usually Macca solo stuff. Every.Year. Weird. (October is rehab with NG stuff). Makes for a rough November! |
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) but much harder to predict the details or the way it will all fit together. As the sci-fi writer William Gibson once said: "The future is already here, it's just unevenly distributed." 
Nov 4, 2024 5:04:30 GMT -5