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Post by fartpanic on Jun 17, 2019 18:07:08 GMT -5
Now Noel is causing more offence and adding to the "closet tory" stuff all around social media, I see the defence of him is always along the lines of "He can say what he wants, people who love him will still love him".
But i can't help but notice compared to his image and reputation around 2011 when he first went solo, hes taken a huge hit.
I know the music has changed too but that just feels like a double whammy and I can't help but think he'd have not quite got so much shit if Liam wasnt as popular as he is and he hadn't come across so stuck up and bitter about everything.
I get that people will always back him, and I'm one of them (within reason). But hes pissing off a hell of alot of his fanbase and he isn't on that level of Bono or Chris Martin who have similar reputations but can deal with it because of their broader appeal.
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Post by tomlivesforever on Jun 17, 2019 18:15:08 GMT -5
Now Noel is causing more offence and adding to the "closet tory" stuff all around social media, I see the defence of him is always along the lines of "He can say what he wants, people who love him will still love him". But i can't help but notice compared to his image and reputation around 2011 when he first went solo, hes taken a huge hit. I know the music has changed too but that just feels like a double whammy and I can't help but think he'd have not quite got so much shit if Liam wasnt as popular as he is and he hadn't come across so stuck up and bitter about everything. I get that people will always back him, and I'm one of them (within reason). But hes pissing off a hell of alot of his fanbase and he isn't on that level of Bono or Chris Martin who have similar reputations but can deal with it because of their broader appeal. Noel’s s big boy. His words are his own and he will no doubt take responsibility for them as he has in the past. |
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Post by The Escapist on Jun 17, 2019 18:17:31 GMT -5
I think Noel is a decent bloke deep down, but he's been very rich now for a very long time, and I reserve the right to think he's being a James Blunt when he says Tony Blair was a great prime minister, or that Corbyn is a communist, or that "too many people have died because of freedom of movement in Europe". Still, he is still someone who's interviews with Russell Brand make me laugh out loud every time I hear them, and he has written some of my all-time favourite songs, and the takes he has are unfortunately not rare amongst a generation who only ever ticked a ballot that was lit in the glittering centrism of New Labour, so I can't bring myself to dismiss him like you would a Morrissey quite yet. I would now much rather be mates with Liam, though, which is probably what matters on this forum  |
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Post by fartpanic on Jun 17, 2019 18:28:16 GMT -5
Now Noel is causing more offence and adding to the "closet tory" stuff all around social media, I see the defence of him is always along the lines of "He can say what he wants, people who love him will still love him". But i can't help but notice compared to his image and reputation around 2011 when he first went solo, hes taken a huge hit. I know the music has changed too but that just feels like a double whammy and I can't help but think he'd have not quite got so much shit if Liam wasnt as popular as he is and he hadn't come across so stuck up and bitter about everything. I get that people will always back him, and I'm one of them (within reason). But hes pissing off a hell of alot of his fanbase and he isn't on that level of Bono or Chris Martin who have similar reputations but can deal with it because of their broader appeal. Noel’s s big boy. His words are his own and he will no doubt take responsibility for them as he has in the past. I know, but he's losing fans for one reason or another. And the Noel we all know isn't gonna be happy if he ends up playing 1000 capacity venues. He does seem to have a great quality of truly not giving a fuck what anyone thinks of him but i just think he needs to rein it in a bit and think about his fans. Morrissey seems to have a collection of blind idiots who will support him unconditionally. Ironically it seems to be vegan, feminist green party esque people who are trying to defend him too. The exact opposite of what he preaches. |
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Post by matt on Jun 17, 2019 19:13:23 GMT -5
Noel will always have a core group of followers because, well, there are always fucking idiots that will believe the shite that spews from his mouth.
All that shit he talks about Brexit or Corbyn (I’m no big fan of Jeremy but with Noel, we’re dealing on a whole new level of stupid as this is the guy who even called Ed Miliband a communist) is laughable. If he thinks he’s being edgy, humorous or, god forbid, insightful, then he’s judged it badly and is woefully out of touch. And for those who lap up what he says? Blind leading the blind.
The reality is, he just comes off as a gammon faced curmudgeonly auld fucker. Basically turning into that Viz character ‘Male Online’.
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Post by spaneli on Jun 17, 2019 22:00:50 GMT -5
Noel’s s big boy. His words are his own and he will no doubt take responsibility for them as he has in the past. I know, but he's losing fans for one reason or another. And the Noel we all know isn't gonna be happy if he ends up playing 1000 capacity venues. He does seem to have a great quality of truly not giving a fuck what anyone thinks of him but i just think he needs to rein it in a bit and think about his fans. Morrissey seems to have a collection of blind idiots who will support him unconditionally. Ironically it seems to be vegan, feminist green party esque people who are trying to defend him too. The exact opposite of what he preaches. Has Morrissey's views ever affected his ticket sales? Nope. Noel's fine because quite frankly, few people are thinking of an artist's politics when they're buying a ticket. People are less principled than they believe themselves to be. |
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Post by freddy838 on Jun 18, 2019 0:58:30 GMT -5
I'd rather musicians not talk about politics as it never really goes well. My biggest gripe with Noel is that although he has always been arrogant and can be pretty scathing, it's always been funny, but he was never pretentious about his music until the last few years. Some of the stuff he has said about his fanbase is more likely to alienate people than politics.
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Post by bogaloo on Jun 18, 2019 2:16:30 GMT -5
I think Noel is a decent bloke deep down, but he's been very rich now for a very long time, and I reserve the right to think he's being a James Blunt when he says Tony Blair was a great prime minister, or that Corbyn is a communist, or that "too many people have died because of freedom of movement in Europe". Still, he is still someone who's interviews with Russell Brand make me laugh out loud every time I hear them, and he has written some of my all-time favourite songs, and the takes he has are unfortunately not rare amongst a generation who only ever ticked a ballot that was lit in the glittering centrism of New Labour, so I can't bring myself to dismiss him like you would a Morrissey quite yet. I would now much rather be mates with Liam, though, which is probably what matters on this forum I don't think his views have changed that much since the 90ies. He's always had this new labour thing. I'd say it's more down to the fact that the world has gradually changed and became more unequal, and he hasn't (or has refused to) realise it, because he's been rich for so long. IMO, new labour wasn't all bad, but they (and the 2008 crisis after that) definitely enacted policies that, in the end, helped increase inequitude, precisely due to that muddled line in the middle they orbited around. Lack of definition between left and right os a very, very bad idea. Also, could you point me to the interview you quoted regarding freedom of movement? I remember him saying some very dodgy stuff regarding security, but not that actual quote. Thanks in advance! |
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Post by Bonehead's Barber on Jun 18, 2019 2:21:15 GMT -5
Your argument is that he will lose fans, because he doesn't like Corbyn, and thinks Brexit should be followed through.
I don't think you really understand the political climate of the UK at the moment...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2019 3:46:15 GMT -5
People never like it when someone who is super rich starts telling them what they should do.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2019 7:32:27 GMT -5
If he truly crosses the line, then Peggy will let him know.
Prime example: the AIDS comment about Damon/Graham from the 90's.
Additionally, who goes to a rock star for political advice?
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Post by theyknowwhatimean on Jun 18, 2019 8:40:53 GMT -5
Don’t worry about it. Noel’s a wily old thing.
Don’t make the same mistake the tabloid press and middle-class snobs everywhere usually make of underestimating the intelligence of the Gallagher brothers. They may appear to talk shite, but they’ve got their heads screwed on right. If Noel was doing serious harm to his profile by acting a certain way, saying certain things, he would make the necessary changes.
He’s already changed a hell of a lot from what he was like in the mid-90s because he knows that he couldn’t get away with being like that now. Liam can (just about) get away with still being the same as he ever was because he’s get his charisma and what’s left of his good looks, but Noel has had to adapt, to own his “sensible one” public image and make that change from hell-raiser to elder statesman of rock.
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Post by The Chief on Jun 18, 2019 12:03:11 GMT -5
Now Noel is causing more offence and adding to the "closet tory" stuff all around social media, I see the defence of him is always along the lines of "He can say what he wants, people who love him will still love him". But i can't help but notice compared to his image and reputation around 2011 when he first went solo, hes taken a huge hit. I know the music has changed too but that just feels like a double whammy and I can't help but think he'd have not quite got so much shit if Liam wasnt as popular as he is and he hadn't come across so stuck up and bitter about everything. I get that people will always back him, and I'm one of them (within reason). But hes pissing off a hell of alot of his fanbase and he isn't on that level of Bono or Chris Martin who have similar reputations but can deal with it because of their broader appeal. There are so many things in your post. First, musically, an artist is not supposed to appeal to his fanbase. He's supposed to make what he wants. To quote Liam, if people like it, then buy it if not then don't. If an artist is faking it to please a fanbase, he's not being true to himself and therefore is not a true artist. That has been Noel's attitude from day 1. Second, politics. His stance is that he's against Brexit because he thinks it's a ridiculous idea. But now that there's actually been a referendum about it and Brexit went through, that means that's what the majority of people want (this could be debated of course) and therefore people who are against Brexit should accept it because that's what a democracy is. I don't really see what's wrong with that. He's also saying that no one has any leg to stand on when they go see someone who they disagree with and tells them "You're wrong". The truth is we're all wrong to some people. That's now how life works. He also said that everyone's beliefs are their own. Which is true. So I don't really get your post to be honest. He's said/done nothing extraordinary here and I can't really see how that could make him a "closet tory". |
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Post by andymorris on Jun 18, 2019 12:11:26 GMT -5
First, musically, an artist is not supposed to appeal to his fanbase. He's supposed to make what he wants. To quote Liam, if people like it, then buy it if not then don't. If an artist is faking it to please a fanbase, he's not being true to himself and therefore is not a true artist. That has been Noel's attitude from day 1. Agree with you on the political side, but musically... Is Liam true to himself ? Hiring songwriters to write him songs that more or less sound like Oasis is not what i would call being true to himself. More like I need help please music industry save me. So i'd say Liam is 50% true. If he was 100% true, he'd release an album every 5 years with only his songs. I'll always believed he could do it, with some hard work and dedication and maybe a little help from a producer, like Noel did with Holmes. But he chose the easy path. It's enjoyable, sometimes. But far from being true. |
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Post by oasisunited on Jun 18, 2019 12:19:56 GMT -5
Additionally, who goes to a rock star for political advice? Fans of Pearl Jam? Or I suppose you could say: Q: Who goes to a concert to hear about politics from a rock star? A: Fans of Pearl Jam. (and yes, I know it's a generalization -- it is meant to be a joke). |
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Post by tomlivesforever on Jun 18, 2019 12:23:36 GMT -5
First, musically, an artist is not supposed to appeal to his fanbase. He's supposed to make what he wants. To quote Liam, if people like it, then buy it if not then don't. If an artist is faking it to please a fanbase, he's not being true to himself and therefore is not a true artist. That has been Noel's attitude from day 1. Agree with you on the political side, but musically... Is Liam true to himself ? Hiring songwriters to write him songs that more or less sound like Oasis is not what i would call being true to himself. More like I need help please music industry save me. So i'd say Liam is 50% true. If he was 100% true, he'd release an album every 5 years with only his songs. I'll always believed he could do it, with some hard work and dedication and maybe a little help from a producer, like Noel did with Holmes. But he chose the easy path. It's enjoyable, sometimes. But far from being true. Liam likes rock n roll and that's exactly what he's singing. If its in the same ball park as Oasis (the band who's music he loves most) isn't he trying to stay true to himself as far as he can? Can you ever discuss Noel without making it about his brother? |
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Post by fartpanic on Jun 18, 2019 16:25:14 GMT -5
Now Noel is causing more offence and adding to the "closet tory" stuff all around social media, I see the defence of him is always along the lines of "He can say what he wants, people who love him will still love him". But i can't help but notice compared to his image and reputation around 2011 when he first went solo, hes taken a huge hit. I know the music has changed too but that just feels like a double whammy and I can't help but think he'd have not quite got so much shit if Liam wasnt as popular as he is and he hadn't come across so stuck up and bitter about everything. I get that people will always back him, and I'm one of them (within reason). But hes pissing off a hell of alot of his fanbase and he isn't on that level of Bono or Chris Martin who have similar reputations but can deal with it because of their broader appeal. There are so many things in your post. First, musically, an artist is not supposed to appeal to his fanbase. He's supposed to make what he wants. To quote Liam, if people like it, then buy it if not then don't. If an artist is faking it to please a fanbase, he's not being true to himself and therefore is not a true artist. That has been Noel's attitude from day 1. Second, politics. His stance is that he's against Brexit because he thinks it's a ridiculous idea. But now that there's actually been a referendum about it and Brexit went through, that means that's what the majority of people want (this could be debated of course) and therefore people who are against Brexit should accept it because that's what a democracy is. I don't really see what's wrong with that. He's also saying that no one has any leg to stand on when they go see someone who they disagree with and tells them "You're wrong". The truth is we're all wrong to some people. That's now how life works. He also said that everyone's beliefs are their own. Which is true. So I don't really get your post to be honest. He's said/done nothing extraordinary here and I can't really see how that could make him a "closet tory". I'm going off the general perception of the man now. If i go back to 2011 when i was probably as pro Liam as anyone could get and very wary of what Noel was like, you couldn't convince anyone that Noel was maybe a bit more sinister than he lets on. I.e the press conference that seemed to fool every casual fan. Then as times gone on and I just accept Noel won't change, the general perception of him is now really bad. This is because of the all round vibe of the man. I totally agree with the points you make and the reasoning for why it shouldn't matter. But the point is it does. Slagging off Corbyn is much more than making a political view. It's seen as shitting on the working class who put him there and it doesn't go down well. Beady Eye had their problems but as soon as they weren't accepted, that was it. There was no comong back. I just think Noel could have done so much to avoid the perception of him going down so much over the past 8 years or so. It's harming himself more than he knows. |
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Post by bt95 on Jun 18, 2019 17:43:44 GMT -5
It's cool to love Liam for the things he's always done. It's cool to get annoyed at Noel for doing the same things he's always done. That's a genuine thing for more casual fans now I think.
I'm not playing the victim card on Noel's behalf. But he's allowed his opinions. Some of them I agree with, some of them I don't. I actually agree more (politically) with what Liam has said. Doesn't mean Noel doesn't - in my opinion - raise some valid points too, though, and the 'closet Tory' stuff pisses me off because it's clearly just a case of people not reading/watching stuff fully before making a conclusion (which is a general point about society and how we take in media now more than anything else, btw).
He says what he wants. Liam says what he wants. They both make the music they want and are both doing it well at the moment. They both entertain people. It's great, imo.
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Post by bt95 on Jun 18, 2019 17:47:47 GMT -5
There are so many things in your post. First, musically, an artist is not supposed to appeal to his fanbase. He's supposed to make what he wants. To quote Liam, if people like it, then buy it if not then don't. If an artist is faking it to please a fanbase, he's not being true to himself and therefore is not a true artist. That has been Noel's attitude from day 1. Second, politics. His stance is that he's against Brexit because he thinks it's a ridiculous idea. But now that there's actually been a referendum about it and Brexit went through, that means that's what the majority of people want (this could be debated of course) and therefore people who are against Brexit should accept it because that's what a democracy is. I don't really see what's wrong with that. He's also saying that no one has any leg to stand on when they go see someone who they disagree with and tells them "You're wrong". The truth is we're all wrong to some people. That's now how life works. He also said that everyone's beliefs are their own. Which is true. So I don't really get your post to be honest. He's said/done nothing extraordinary here and I can't really see how that could make him a "closet tory". I'm going off the general perception of the man now. If i go back to 2011 when i was probably as pro Liam as anyone could get and very wary of what Noel was like, you couldn't convince anyone that Noel was maybe a bit more sinister than he lets on. I.e the press conference that seemed to fool every casual fan. Then as times gone on and I just accept Noel won't change, the general perception of him is now really bad. This is because of the all round vibe of the man. I totally agree with the points you make and the reasoning for why it shouldn't matter. But the point is it does. Slagging off Corbyn is much more than making a political view. It's seen as shitting on the working class who put him there and it doesn't go down well. Beady Eye had their problems but as soon as they weren't accepted, that was it. There was no comong back. I just think Noel could have done so much to avoid the perception of him going down so much over the past 8 years or so. It's harming himself more than he knows. <iframe width="17.91999999999996" height="15.080000000000041" style="position: absolute; width: 17.91999999999996px; height: 15.080000000000041px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none;left: 15px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_85655124" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="17.91999999999996" height="15.080000000000041" style="position: absolute; width: 17.92px; height: 15.08px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 842px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_41028840" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="17.91999999999996" height="15.080000000000041" style="position: absolute; width: 17.92px; height: 15.08px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 15px; top: 683px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_97052184" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="17.91999999999996" height="15.080000000000041" style="position: absolute; width: 17.92px; height: 15.08px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 842px; top: 683px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_64777555" scrolling="no"></iframe> I don't want this to turn into more Corbyn bashing but bloody hell, if you think every working class (or even the majority) of working class people like Corbyn, then you've got a shock coming your way, mate. I'm not even saying more shouldn't. I was banging his drum (not as unequivocally as others but still behind him) from 2017 onwards, but people genuinely don't like the bloke, especially in that generation Noel is from (my Dad is one - he says exactly the same things about Corbyn as Noel does. He's a lifelong Labour voter, he's not some thick 'miseducated' bloke, either). Anyway, based on the atmosphere at the gigs in the last year, anything about Noel being blanked/declining is pretty much nonsense, tbh. He still does what he does really well - in fact, he does it better than he ever has it before in terms of the solo stuff. And people like it. |
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Post by bt95 on Jun 18, 2019 18:03:37 GMT -5
I do miss the more insightful Noel interviews in long form. Again, that has more to do with how media has changed in the past 8 years or so, but on that first tour and to an extent the second, Liam wasn't the story. He is now, and there will always be a question looking for that reaction. And the reaction will always come. It's the same the other way around, too.
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Post by tomlivesforever on Jun 18, 2019 18:35:11 GMT -5
It's cool to love Liam for the things he's always done. It's cool to get annoyed at Noel for doing the same things he's always done. That's a genuine thing for more casual fans now I think. I'm not playing the victim card on Noel's behalf. But he's allowed his opinions. Some of them I agree with, some of them I don't. I actually agree more (politically) with what Liam has said. Doesn't mean Noel doesn't - in my opinion - raise some valid points too, though, and the 'closet Tory' stuff pisses me off because it's clearly just a case of people not reading/watching stuff fully before making a conclusion (which is a general point about society and how we take in media now more than anything else, btw). He says what he wants. Liam says what he wants. They both make the music they want and are both doing it well at the moment. They both entertain people. It's great, imo. It’s pretty simple really, people that once felt like Noel was someone they could identify with no longer feel that way due to Noel’s current outlook. Whether that’s how he comes across politically or the all music is wank these days stuff (except Bono’s sons band apparently). |
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Post by fartpanic on Jun 18, 2019 20:58:16 GMT -5
I'm going off the general perception of the man now. If i go back to 2011 when i was probably as pro Liam as anyone could get and very wary of what Noel was like, you couldn't convince anyone that Noel was maybe a bit more sinister than he lets on. I.e the press conference that seemed to fool every casual fan. Then as times gone on and I just accept Noel won't change, the general perception of him is now really bad. This is because of the all round vibe of the man. I totally agree with the points you make and the reasoning for why it shouldn't matter. But the point is it does. Slagging off Corbyn is much more than making a political view. It's seen as shitting on the working class who put him there and it doesn't go down well. Beady Eye had their problems but as soon as they weren't accepted, that was it. There was no comong back. I just think Noel could have done so much to avoid the perception of him going down so much over the past 8 years or so. It's harming himself more than he knows. <iframe width="17.91999999999996" height="15.080000000000041" style="position: absolute; width: 17.91999999999996px; height: 15.080000000000041px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none;left: 15px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_85655124" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="17.91999999999996" height="15.080000000000041" style="position: absolute; width: 17.92px; height: 15.08px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 842px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_41028840" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="17.91999999999996" height="15.080000000000041" style="position: absolute; width: 17.92px; height: 15.08px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 15px; top: 683px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_97052184" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="17.91999999999996" height="15.080000000000041" style="position: absolute; width: 17.92px; height: 15.08px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 842px; top: 683px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_64777555" scrolling="no"></iframe> I don't want this to turn into more Corbyn bashing but bloody hell, if you think every working class (or even the majority) of working class people like Corbyn, then you've got a shock coming your way, mate. I'm not even saying more shouldn't. I was banging his drum (not as unequivocally as others but still behind him) from 2017 onwards, but people genuinely don't like the bloke, especially in that generation Noel is from (my Dad is one - he says exactly the same things about Corbyn as Noel does. He's a lifelong Labour voter, he's not some thick 'miseducated' bloke, either). Anyway, based on the atmosphere at the gigs in the last year, anything about Noel being blanked/declining is pretty much nonsense, tbh. He still does what he does really well - in fact, he does it better than he ever has it before in terms of the solo stuff. And people like it. You're confusing my perceptions of how I see Noel being viewed with my perceptions on the subjects Noel is commenting on. I too, as a labour supporter all my life, won't be voting for Corbyn this time around. There's many reasons for that that i won't go into to avoid derailing the discussion. But if you do so much as voice any concerns about the left you can be labelled all sorts. Noel has fell victim to this all over social media from the naive youngsters and amongst his other views, hes now seen in a totally new light. I just think for someone so witty and articulate on all other matters, he's always come across as very out of touch and unknowledgable about politics (whether I agree with what he says or not, it's always quite a knuckle dragging type view he gives) and that's an area he shouldn't be going into, especially given his new found sense of spitefulness and wealthy acquaintances. Maybe thats just it now, he doesn't resonate like he did. In the 90s it was working class hero. In 2005- it was the witty, wise legend in a cool time for indie music. Now, when his brother is seemingly finding all the PR answers, he just doesn't resonate on a wider scale now. |
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Post by bt95 on Jun 19, 2019 5:31:13 GMT -5
It's cool to love Liam for the things he's always done. It's cool to get annoyed at Noel for doing the same things he's always done. That's a genuine thing for more casual fans now I think. I'm not playing the victim card on Noel's behalf. But he's allowed his opinions. Some of them I agree with, some of them I don't. I actually agree more (politically) with what Liam has said. Doesn't mean Noel doesn't - in my opinion - raise some valid points too, though, and the 'closet Tory' stuff pisses me off because it's clearly just a case of people not reading/watching stuff fully before making a conclusion (which is a general point about society and how we take in media now more than anything else, btw). He says what he wants. Liam says what he wants. They both make the music they want and are both doing it well at the moment. They both entertain people. It's great, imo. It’s pretty simple really, people that once felt like Noel was someone they could identify with no longer feel that way due to Noel’s current outlook. Whether that’s how he comes across politically or the all music is wank these days stuff (except Bono’s sons band apparently). Some people, not everybody. It's hard to identify with either of them tbh. I can't identify with Liam because I'll never be a superstar frontman. I can't identify with Noel because I'll never be a genius songwriter. I admire both of them and am fed up of one getting preferential treatment than the other when it comes to saying similar things. Noel 'slagged off' vegans the other day - gets dogs abuse on Twitter. Liam 'slags off' vegans in his Q interview. Nowt's said. Just want criticism/praise to be there in equal measure and for people to stop reading headlines or one line of quotes and taking their gash opinion to social media (but like I keep saying, this is a problem with everything now). Also, Noel has been critical of 'modern music' for about 10 years, so why the change now? Liam the other day said 'well there's nobody else' in one of the radio interviews where he was asked about his comeback. Why hasn't that being picked up on in the same way, if the reason is like you say in your post? |
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Post by bt95 on Jun 19, 2019 5:33:05 GMT -5
<iframe width="17.91999999999996" height="15.080000000000041" style="position: absolute; width: 17.91999999999996px; height: 15.080000000000041px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none;left: 15px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_85655124" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="17.91999999999996" height="15.080000000000041" style="position: absolute; width: 17.92px; height: 15.08px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 842px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_41028840" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="17.91999999999996" height="15.080000000000041" style="position: absolute; width: 17.92px; height: 15.08px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 15px; top: 683px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_97052184" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="17.91999999999996" height="15.080000000000041" style="position: absolute; width: 17.92px; height: 15.08px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 842px; top: 683px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_64777555" scrolling="no"></iframe> I don't want this to turn into more Corbyn bashing but bloody hell, if you think every working class (or even the majority) of working class people like Corbyn, then you've got a shock coming your way, mate. I'm not even saying more shouldn't. I was banging his drum (not as unequivocally as others but still behind him) from 2017 onwards, but people genuinely don't like the bloke, especially in that generation Noel is from (my Dad is one - he says exactly the same things about Corbyn as Noel does. He's a lifelong Labour voter, he's not some thick 'miseducated' bloke, either). Anyway, based on the atmosphere at the gigs in the last year, anything about Noel being blanked/declining is pretty much nonsense, tbh. He still does what he does really well - in fact, he does it better than he ever has it before in terms of the solo stuff. And people like it. You're confusing my perceptions of how I see Noel being viewed with my perceptions on the subjects Noel is commenting on. I too, as a labour supporter all my life, won't be voting for Corbyn this time around. There's many reasons for that that i won't go into to avoid derailing the discussion. But if you do so much as voice any concerns about the left you can be labelled all sorts. Noel has fell victim to this all over social media from the naive youngsters and amongst his other views, hes now seen in a totally new light. I just think for someone so witty and articulate on all other matters, he's always come across as very out of touch and unknowledgable about politics (whether I agree with what he says or not, it's always quite a knuckle dragging type view he gives) and that's an area he shouldn't be going into, especially given his new found sense of spitefulness and wealthy acquaintances. Maybe thats just it now, he doesn't resonate like he did. In the 90s it was working class hero. In 2005- it was the witty, wise legend in a cool time for indie music. Now, when his brother is seemingly finding all the PR answers, he just doesn't resonate on a wider scale now. I actually agree on that mate. But again I think that's as much to do with a problem with the current generation as it is Noel being - for him - a bit dim. |
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Post by The Chief on Jun 19, 2019 11:09:12 GMT -5
First, musically, an artist is not supposed to appeal to his fanbase. He's supposed to make what he wants. To quote Liam, if people like it, then buy it if not then don't. If an artist is faking it to please a fanbase, he's not being true to himself and therefore is not a true artist. That has been Noel's attitude from day 1. Agree with you on the political side, but musically... Is Liam true to himself ? Hiring songwriters to write him songs that more or less sound like Oasis is not what i would call being true to himself. More like I need help please music industry save me. So i'd say Liam is 50% true. If he was 100% true, he'd release an album every 5 years with only his songs. I'll always believed he could do it, with some hard work and dedication and maybe a little help from a producer, like Noel did with Holmes. But he chose the easy path. It's enjoyable, sometimes. But far from being true. Like tomlivesforever said, he does what he likes, simple rock 'n' roll. So yes he's being true to himself and honest enough to go get help to write songs as he knows his limits. Nothing wrong there IMO. Also, he has nothing to do with this discussion really. Then as times gone on and I just accept Noel won't change, the general perception of him is now really bad. Apart from people who are full on team Liam (the principle of which is a ridiculous thing IMO, either "team Liam" or "team Noel") I'm curious to about how you know that the "general perception" of him is now relly bad? According to whom? People on Twitter? Hardcore Liam fans? Was there a poll I'm not aware of? My point here is that this is just an impression you have on which you base a general assumption. Slagging off Corbyn is much more than making a political view. It's seen as shitting on the working class who put him there and it doesn't go down well. Criticizing a politician, no matter where he is on the political spectrum is not shitting on the people who voted for him. That's definitely a bad way of seeing. Once someone is elected, the people have 0 control over what he does. But overall, anyone should have the right to any opinion. Noel, like anyone else, doesn't owe anyone a specific political opinion. Beady Eye had their problems but as soon as they weren't accepted, that was it. There was no comong back. I just think Noel could have done so much to avoid the perception of him going down so much over the past 8 years or so. It's harming himself more than he knows. As far as I know, he's selling very well, headlining the Isle of Wight and so on. I don't see him going down in any way shape or form... |
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Nov 4, 2024 5:04:30 GMT -5