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Post by AdidasNG72 on Dec 2, 2017 19:24:22 GMT -5
I have heard him say deep things about his wife before, other than her looks. The fact that he wants female singers in his band, and puts people like Charlotte on a pedestal (calling her a hero) says quite a lot about his views on women. Not really. Like he hasn't put Charlotte on a pedestal at all. She's an actual musician and singer, but Noel rarely talks about that. Instead he uses her as a well paid prop. He name drops her band all the time, name drops her all the time, and he has called her `a hero' in one of the interviews I've seen. Every time I have heard him mention her, its usually in a very positive light. But you may not have seen those interviews, hence why you have a very different opinion - in that he only uses her as a well-paid prop and nothing more. He even gave her the spotlight during the Jools Holland show, and no doubt he'll also do so live on tour. The fact that he took a punt on her playing the scissors (her request) live on TV, when other musicians may have run a mile due to the potential ridicule says quite a lot too. Could you imagine Liam allowing a female playing one of his songs live on stage with a pair of scissors?
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Post by The Invisible Sun on Dec 2, 2017 19:24:38 GMT -5
This thread has decended into social justice warrior nonsense... Seems so. Apparently being a feminist is the be all end all of human existence. I prefer secular humanism, which doesn't single out any sex, gender, or class over another nor does it wish to censor language. Then again, I'm from the U.S. I don't know the state of things in Europe. Maybe feminism is still necessary there. If Noel declares himself a feminist, I'm willing to accept it until he demonstrates otherwise. Referring to anyone, female or otherwise as 'bitches' just makes him an asshole at most, which wouldn't exactly be surprising considering his known history. His remark says absolutely nothing one way or another about whether or not he believes females are deserving of equal rights and opportunity. Suffice to say, I do not find 'no true Scotsman' fallacies very convincing.
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Post by The Invisible Sun on Dec 2, 2017 19:28:03 GMT -5
Isn't it interesting that all these comments from Noel which spark furious debate relate to being asked about Liam. Perhaps more interviewers should leave that subject well alone, is there anything good that ever comes out of it? Not to mention it's boring as fuck. They don't get on, we get it. If interviewers insist on asking the brothers about each other maybe keep it to the music. For instance, as a fan I'd be more interested in hearing Noel's thoughts on if Liam's voice would actually suit his work now considering it's evolved considerably, or if he feels he could ever have written or recorded these kind of songs knowing they were going to be on Oasis albums. Could be a bit more interesting than asking about Liam's Twitter. Your observation is likely the exact reason journalists don't leave that subject alone. It sparks controversy, the very thing most people are interested in when looking for news.
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Post by AdidasNG72 on Dec 2, 2017 19:37:11 GMT -5
I've heard him talk about Sara in depth all the time, talking about how she saved him when he was at his lowest point and all that. Noel sees the world through a male gaze, and often equates women based on that gaze. Hence why the only person to feature on his new album cover is a woman, and why he has started bringing female singers into his band.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2017 20:00:34 GMT -5
Isn't it interesting that all these comments from Noel which spark furious debate relate to being asked about Liam. Perhaps more interviewers should leave that subject well alone, is there anything good that ever comes out of it? Not to mention it's boring as fuck. They don't get on, we get it. If interviewers insist on asking the brothers about each other maybe keep it to the music. For instance, as a fan I'd be more interested in hearing Noel's thoughts on if Liam's voice would actually suit his work now considering it's evolved considerably, or if he feels he could ever have written or recorded these kind of songs knowing they were going to be on Oasis albums. Could be a bit more interesting than asking about Liam's Twitter. Your observation is likely the exact reason journalists don't leave that subject alone. It sparks controversy, the very thing most people are interested in when looking for news. True, can always rely on mainstream media to spread negativity to the masses. Perhaps we shouldn't take the bait anymore.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2017 20:04:53 GMT -5
I miss the days we slagged Andy off for counting his shoes in Paris.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2017 20:09:14 GMT -5
I miss the days we slagged Andy off for counting his shoes in Paris. If there's anything I've learnt from this forum it's that the days of slagging off Andy Bell are never over
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Post by Lennon2217 on Dec 2, 2017 22:43:12 GMT -5
Why would they? It’s been Know for a long time where he was. Liam did a fine job plugging it on Twitter. Plus Noel was apart of the benefit in September. All these things are positives for the victims. That’s what should be discussed. Not Liam stating a war in the press over whereabouts. I agree it's not a good question. I'm wondering why it's off limits. Liam is fielding all sorts of questions about children, divorce, twitter behaviour etc. Also not relevant but they are being asked Edit: According to this forum, Liam's success was partly/entirely due to his appearance at One Love, and I might agree with that view. Now that Noel has sold many fewer albums in the first week, could the reason be the lack of appearance at One Love? Nobody needs to ask Noel where he was during One Love. Its already been well publicized during that week. That concert was arranged last minute. Noel was away on vacation. Loads of Manchester stars weren't at One Love. During times like this you don't rip on people for not being there, you focus on those that are there to raise funds and awareness. Noel put on his own benefit months later. Both raised money for the victims. A huge positive.
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Post by mostlyharmless on Dec 2, 2017 23:27:02 GMT -5
He can say he’s a feminist but he most definitely is not. Racists love to insist they are not racist right before they say something racist too. Anyone who refers to “girls” in his band, calls his office staff bitches, and feels the need to mention his wife’s beauty at every opportunity as if that is her value is definitely not a feminist. There used to be a podcast run by a bunch of females called 'Godless Bitches'. They also identify as feminists. But I guess they really aren't feminists since they called themselves bitches? Do you also question the fact that black people call themselves 'nigga' but other ethnic groups can't? It carries connotations of camaraderie within a group of people who are essentially discriminated and underrepresented. What's more, feminists address themselves with words like bitches and 'nasty woman', as a gesture opposing the idea that women are supposed to be obedient in order to be perceived as 'elegant'. Therefore it's inappropriate for a man to say the same thing.
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Post by mostlyharmless on Dec 3, 2017 0:08:21 GMT -5
Not really. Like he hasn't put Charlotte on a pedestal at all. She's an actual musician and singer, but Noel rarely talks about that. Instead he uses her as a well paid prop. He name drops her band all the time, name drops her all the time, and he has called her `a hero' in one of the interviews I've seen. Every time I have heard him mention her, its usually in a very positive light. But you may not have seen those interviews, hence why you have a very different opinion - in that he only uses her as a well-paid prop and nothing more. He even gave her the spotlight during the Jools Holland show, and no doubt he'll also do so live on tour. Giving someone the spotlight doesn't necessarily mean properly treating them as a fellow artist regardless of gender. Why Obama got criticized and then apologized for calling a female state attorney general "the best-looking attorney general"? The thing is either dignifying or belittling a woman jeopardizes the normal perspective on a female professional. People notice the latter but often ignore the former. A professional is a professional in the first place, not a good looking creature. A woman is a human in the first place, not a goddess or some mysterious animal. In fact, try to compare how Damon Albarn talks about Jehnny Beth's role in the Gorillaz track "We Got The Power", and how Andy Bell (who also mentions his wife fondly all the time) praises his wife. You should have a sense of the differences.
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Post by nataliemckinney on Dec 3, 2017 0:08:33 GMT -5
Started noticing it months ago and might’ve commented about it before, but I never would’ve thought that I’d dislike Noel at any point in my life. They both say ridiculous shit about each other in the media, but Noel is much more venomous and it seems like he’s trying to personally hurt Liam. Liam’s comments are generally humorous and have some charm, plus he does compliment Noel. Where’s Noel’s charm gone? This is what I hate now about Oasis fans, and what we have turned into. We should be pleased that there are 2 great albums being released in the space of a couple of months, yet more attention is being given to the ongoing soap opera between the two brothers, turning this forum into a snidey, bitchy, gossip-fest that seems to eventually dominate every thread. It's a personal family war between two big egos, and none of us on the outside looking in will be any the wiser as to what has really gone on between these two over the years, regardless of what we have read on Twitter. Liam's `humorous' Tweets may just touch the surface to stuff that runs much deeper, and something that has certainly spanned many years, decades even. That we DO know. But the rest of it is all speculation to everyone not personally involved in a long running battle between two brothers. We can all judge and pick sides, slag Noel off for being twisted and a control freak, or bitch about Liam for being nasty and childish, but none of us will ever know the real truth behind this. Only the immediate family and friends will know for sure what has gone on. Therefore picking sides, judging either brother for how they are reacting to the other is pointless, and also not well informed enough to be really holding any kind of judgement. This. It hits the nail right on the head. The fans take Liam and Noel's insults at each other far more serious than Liam and Noel ever will. My family and I throw digs at each other all the time just for fun. The family that I don't talk to - we don't. Complete silence. So half the time I feel like Liam and Noel are going at each other just for laughs at this point. As long as they continue to put out music, I'm happy.
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Post by janedoe on Dec 3, 2017 1:20:55 GMT -5
This is what I hate now about Oasis fans, and what we have turned into. We should be pleased that there are 2 great albums being released in the space of a couple of months, yet more attention is being given to the ongoing soap opera between the two brothers, turning this forum into a snidey, bitchy, gossip-fest that seems to eventually dominate every thread. It's a personal family war between two big egos, and none of us on the outside looking in will be any the wiser as to what has really gone on between these two over the years, regardless of what we have read on Twitter. Liam's `humorous' Tweets may just touch the surface to stuff that runs much deeper, and something that has certainly spanned many years, decades even. That we DO know. But the rest of it is all speculation to everyone not personally involved in a long running battle between two brothers. We can all judge and pick sides, slag Noel off for being twisted and a control freak, or bitch about Liam for being nasty and childish, but none of us will ever know the real truth behind this. Only the immediate family and friends will know for sure what has gone on. Therefore picking sides, judging either brother for how they are reacting to the other is pointless, and also not well informed enough to be really holding any kind of judgement. This. It hits the nail right on the head. The fans take Liam and Noel's insults at each other far more serious than Liam and Noel ever will. My family and I throw digs at each other all the time just for fun. The family that I don't talk to - we don't. Complete silence. So half the time I feel like Liam and Noel are going at each other just for laughs at this point. As long as they continue to put out music, I'm happy. I agree, there's nothing these brothers are saying about each other that I haven't heard in my family. Siblings mostly, the parents/children relationships seem reasonable in comparison. The Gallaghers happen to have a wider forum than my family has.
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Post by AdidasNG72 on Dec 3, 2017 2:32:48 GMT -5
He name drops her band all the time, name drops her all the time, and he has called her `a hero' in one of the interviews I've seen. Every time I have heard him mention her, its usually in a very positive light. But you may not have seen those interviews, hence why you have a very different opinion - in that he only uses her as a well-paid prop and nothing more. He even gave her the spotlight during the Jools Holland show, and no doubt he'll also do so live on tour. Giving someone the spotlight doesn't necessarily mean properly treating them as a fellow artist regardless of gender. Why Obama got criticized and then apologized for calling a female state attorney general "the best-looking attorney general"? The thing is either dignifying or belittling a woman jeopardizes the normal perspective on a female professional. People notice the latter but often ignore the former. A professional is a professional in the first place, not a good looking creature. A woman is a human in the first place, not a goddess or some mysterious animal. In fact, try to compare how Damon Albarn talks about Jehnny Beth's role in the Gorillaz track "We Got The Power", and how Andy Bell (who also mentions his wife fondly all the time) praises his wife. You should have a sense of the differences. If Charlotte was a drop-dead gorgeous bimbo, then it would have been obvious why Noel had put her in the spotlight on stage, assuming he is all things sexist. But on close-up inspection, its obvious Noel has picked Charlotte for her musical talents, and not her stunning good looks.
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Post by themost on Dec 3, 2017 7:28:40 GMT -5
There’s a vast difference between women calling themselves a word in an ironic fashion, and a man choosing to label women who work under him the same term. What's the difference in your opinion? It may be helpful to also define terms. Sorry to butt in. But you'll understand if you think about n word.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2017 9:19:16 GMT -5
Only the immediate family and friends will know for sure what has gone on. Therefore picking sides, judging either brother for how they are reacting to the other is pointless, and also not well informed enough to be really holding any kind of judgement. Says the poster who has consistently taken Noel's side since registering. Embarrassing post.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2017 9:21:20 GMT -5
Liam has had a little bit of success without Noel there to prop him up. Noel is obviously somewhat bitter about it. Easier to dismiss the album than it is to admit he did alright on it. Indeed. He was broadly supportive of Beady Eye because they weren't doing well but he takes a different attitude when his brother's been successful.
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Post by mimmihopps on Dec 3, 2017 9:29:42 GMT -5
Only the immediate family and friends will know for sure what has gone on. Therefore picking sides, judging either brother for how they are reacting to the other is pointless, and also not well informed enough to be really holding any kind of judgement. Says the poster who has consistently taken Noel's side since registering. Embarrassing post. Yes, he took Noel's side but after he argued with an another member a couple of days ago, He apologized her and mods for his behaviour and they both moved on. I agree with his post which is NOT embarrassing at all.
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Post by AdidasNG72 on Dec 3, 2017 9:54:51 GMT -5
Says the poster who has consistently taken Noel's side since registering. Embarrassing post. Yes, he took Noel's side but after he argued with an another member a couple of days ago, He apologized her and mods for his behaviour and they both moved on. I agree with his post which is NOT embarrassing at all. Thanks
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Post by AdidasNG72 on Dec 3, 2017 9:56:29 GMT -5
Only the immediate family and friends will know for sure what has gone on. Therefore picking sides, judging either brother for how they are reacting to the other is pointless, and also not well informed enough to be really holding any kind of judgement. Says the poster who has consistently taken Noel's side since registering. Embarrassing post. You've certainly got me by the short and curlies...
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Post by ricardogce on Dec 3, 2017 11:22:01 GMT -5
Giving someone the spotlight doesn't necessarily mean properly treating them as a fellow artist regardless of gender. Why Obama got criticized and then apologized for calling a female state attorney general "the best-looking attorney general"? The thing is either dignifying or belittling a woman jeopardizes the normal perspective on a female professional. People notice the latter but often ignore the former. A professional is a professional in the first place, not a good looking creature. A woman is a human in the first place, not a goddess or some mysterious animal. In fact, try to compare how Damon Albarn talks about Jehnny Beth's role in the Gorillaz track "We Got The Power", and how Andy Bell (who also mentions his wife fondly all the time) praises his wife. You should have a sense of the differences. If Charlotte was a drop-dead gorgeous bimbo, then it would have been obvious why Noel had put her in the spotlight on stage, assuming he is all things sexist. But on close-up inspection, its obvious Noel has picked Charlotte for her musical talents, and not her stunning good looks. Are you saying Charlotte isn't stunning? Because dude...
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Post by Manualex on Dec 3, 2017 11:27:13 GMT -5
He name drops her band all the time, name drops her all the time, and he has called her `a hero' in one of the interviews I've seen. Every time I have heard him mention her, its usually in a very positive light. But you may not have seen those interviews, hence why you have a very different opinion - in that he only uses her as a well-paid prop and nothing more. He even gave her the spotlight during the Jools Holland show, and no doubt he'll also do so live on tour. Giving someone the spotlight doesn't necessarily mean properly treating them as a fellow artist regardless of gender. Why Obama got criticized and then apologized for calling a female state attorney general "the best-looking attorney general"? The thing is either dignifying or belittling a woman jeopardizes the normal perspective on a female professional. People notice the latter but often ignore the former. A professional is a professional in the first place, not a good looking creature. A woman is a human in the first place, not a goddess or some mysterious animal. In fact, try to compare how Damon Albarn talks about Jehnny Beth's role in the Gorillaz track "We Got The Power", and how Andy Bell (who also mentions his wife fondly all the time) praises his wife. You should have a sense of the differences. Beth's verse is the only good thing about we got the power
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Post by AdidasNG72 on Dec 3, 2017 11:30:03 GMT -5
If Charlotte was a drop-dead gorgeous bimbo, then it would have been obvious why Noel had put her in the spotlight on stage, assuming he is all things sexist. But on close-up inspection, its obvious Noel has picked Charlotte for her musical talents, and not her stunning good looks. Are you saying Charlotte isn't stunning? Because dude... She looks attractive there, but when I saw on an interview, she didn't strike me as an immediate obvious stunner. And I don't mean that in a nasty, derogatory way. She looks to be a very nice person, and obviously talented at what she does. But I'd say she was selected on those things, rather than just her looks, if we are to believe Noel is nothing more than a sexist neanderthal dinosaur, who only sees women as pieces of meat.
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Post by akaidleroses on Dec 3, 2017 12:21:34 GMT -5
This thread has decended into social justice warrior nonsense... Seems so. Apparently being a feminist is the be all end all of human existence. I prefer secular humanism, which doesn't single out any sex, gender, or class over another nor does it wish to censor language. Then again, I'm from the U.S. I don't know the state of things in Europe. Maybe feminism is still necessary there. If Noel declares himself a feminist, I'm willing to accept it until he demonstrates otherwise. Referring to anyone, female or otherwise as 'bitches' just makes him an asshole at most, which wouldn't exactly be surprising considering his known history. His remark says absolutely nothing one way or another about whether or not he believes females are deserving of equal rights and opportunity. Suffice to say, I do not find 'no true Scotsman' fallacies very convincing. Modern feminism is nothing but utter misandry and don't start me on the cuck men who support their causes.
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Post by The Invisible Sun on Dec 3, 2017 12:45:18 GMT -5
There used to be a podcast run by a bunch of females called 'Godless Bitches'. They also identify as feminists. But I guess they really aren't feminists since they called themselves bitches? Do you also question the fact that black people call themselves 'nigga' but other ethnic groups can't? It carries connotations of camaraderie within a group of people who are essentially discriminated and underrepresented. What's more, feminists address themselves with words like bitches and 'nasty woman', as a gesture opposing the idea that women are supposed to be obedient in order to be perceived as 'elegant'. Therefore it's inappropriate for a man to say the same thing. I think no word should be off the table. I don't think "bad" words exist. Only bad context exists. However, I do think that if black people are going to be offended by the word when uttered by non-blacks, they too should stop using it. Equality, right? It's either okay for everyone or it isn't. I also do not think we live in a time where blacks are discriminated against or underrepresented any longer. People are holding true to that idea, but I don't see good supporting evidence. At best, cherry picked examples. Regardless, it's no excuse to censor the language of others even if it were true. Censorship is wrong. Resorting to violence over the utterance of a word is wrong. The fact that people have to walk on eggshells over what they could say for fear of being beat to death in the street or having property destroyed is wrong. Sticks and stones...
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Post by The Invisible Sun on Dec 3, 2017 12:46:37 GMT -5
What's the difference in your opinion? It may be helpful to also define terms. Sorry to butt in. But you'll understand if you think about n word. Actually I don't. I understand what other people have to say about it, but I think they are blatantly irrational. Context is everything and sometimes insults are deserved or appropriate. Depends on the context. Like all language, there is a time and a place to say anything. Because what is language? What purpose does it serve? To communicate thoughts and ideas. Nothing is off the table. Much in the same way that in comedy, nothing should ever be off the table.
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