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Post by jordan71421 on Oct 18, 2017 11:39:29 GMT -5
For those who want to experience the wonders of socialism you can come to Venezuela. There's no guarantee you will want to go back to your country. Or that you will be alivr after a week or two 😂 Feel free to visit Sweden if you'd like. And i thought communism was what was being discussed? Socialism fits right in with communism as the types of tyrannical governments that ruin peoples' lives |
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Post by The Escapist on Oct 18, 2017 11:41:29 GMT -5
Feel free to visit Sweden if you'd like. And i thought communism was what was being discussed? Socialism fits right in with communism as the types of tyrannical governments that ruin peoples' lives Absolutely incredible. Communism is a stateless, classless society where production is controlled by the producers and power is decentralised to autonomous communities. |
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Post by funhouse on Oct 18, 2017 11:43:36 GMT -5
Feel free to visit Sweden if you'd like. And i thought communism was what was being discussed? In fairness, that's not socialist either. Socialism = Working class control of production. Communism = A form of socialism which decentralises power to autonomous communities. I meant while that isn't really happening now, democratic socialism has done many good things for us in the past. Sweden would be worse off today, had they never gained power. |
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Post by funhouse on Oct 18, 2017 11:44:39 GMT -5
Feel free to visit Sweden if you'd like. And i thought communism was what was being discussed? Socialism fits right in with communism as the types of tyrannical governments that ruin peoples' lives At least TRY not to sound ignorant. |
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Post by jordan71421 on Oct 18, 2017 11:45:06 GMT -5
Socialism fits right in with communism as the types of tyrannical governments that ruin peoples' lives Absolutely incredible. Communism is a stateless, classless society where production is controlled by the producers and power is decentralised to autonomous communities. A society needs structure, power, classes etc to survive. That's why I believe that the US is the best place to live. Just an opinion. I don't agree with you either but I don't demonize you for it. |
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Post by jordan71421 on Oct 18, 2017 11:46:25 GMT -5
Socialism fits right in with communism as the types of tyrannical governments that ruin peoples' lives At least TRY not to sound ignorant. At least TRY not to forget the mass murders that have come from communist societies. Don't gloss over it. |
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Post by The Escapist on Oct 18, 2017 11:47:45 GMT -5
Absolutely incredible. Communism is a stateless, classless society where production is controlled by the producers and power is decentralised to autonomous communities. A society needs structure, power, classes etc to survive. That's why I believe that the US is the best place to live. Just an opinion. I don't agree with you either but I don't demonize you for it. Ok, that's your opinion. I think it's wrong, but it's your right to hold it. My point is that you can't claim communism leads to tyranny and lack of freedom because...it doesn't. The societies you're talking about simply weren't communist. I don't mind if you just don't like communism, but I do mind when you continually use this strawman that it's some sort of totalitarian society when it's the very opposite. |
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Post by funhouse on Oct 18, 2017 11:47:58 GMT -5
At least TRY not to sound ignorant. At least TRY not to forget the mass murders that have come from communist societies. Don't gloss over it. I was referring to your ignorant claim that socialism and communism is pretty much the same, but whatever. |
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Post by jordan71421 on Oct 18, 2017 11:49:26 GMT -5
At least TRY not to forget the mass murders that have come from communist societies. Don't gloss over it. I was referring to your ignorant claim that socialism and communism is pretty much the same, but whatever. No, I think they're both different shades of dangerous |
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Post by jordan71421 on Oct 18, 2017 11:50:15 GMT -5
A society needs structure, power, classes etc to survive. That's why I believe that the US is the best place to live. Just an opinion. I don't agree with you either but I don't demonize you for it. Ok, that's your opinion. I think it's wrong, but it's your right to hold it. My point is that you can't claim communism leads to tyranny and lack of freedom because...it doesn't. The societies you're talking about simply weren't communist. I don't mind if you just don't like communism, but I do mind when you continually use this strawman that it's some sort of totalitarian society when it's the very opposite. And i'll never get you to acknowledge the damage these types of societies have brought to the world. |
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Post by The Escapist on Oct 18, 2017 11:51:26 GMT -5
Socialism = Production is owned by producers
Communism = A classless, stateless society where production is controlled communally and power is decentralised among communities.
North Korea, Soviet Union, China, Sweden, Venezuela - none of them are socialist or communist
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Post by funhouse on Oct 18, 2017 11:51:47 GMT -5
I was referring to your ignorant claim that socialism and communism is pretty much the same, but whatever. No, I think they're both different shades of dangerous Alright, believe what you want to believe. |
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Post by jordan71421 on Oct 18, 2017 11:52:48 GMT -5
Socialism = Production is owned by producers Communism = A classless, stateless society where production is controlled communally and power is decentralised among communities. North Korea, Soviet Union, China, Sweden, Venezuela - none of them are socialist or communist The definition of these systems and their real life execution are two different things. |
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Post by The Escapist on Oct 18, 2017 11:54:01 GMT -5
Socialism = Production is owned by producers Communism = A classless, stateless society where production is controlled communally and power is decentralised among communities. North Korea, Soviet Union, China, Sweden, Venezuela - none of them are socialist or communist The definition of these systems and their real life execution are two different things. Ok then, I challenge you to find any way in which the societies you think are communist attempted to implement communism. I'm waiting. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2017 11:54:18 GMT -5
I'm still reading page 5 but let me just quote Richard Ashcroft:
"Cause it's a bittersweet symphony this life
Trying to make ends meet, you're a slave to the money then you die."
That's basically our lives right now. Capitalism is freedom to very few people.
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Post by jordan71421 on Oct 18, 2017 11:56:17 GMT -5
I'm still reading page 5 but let me just quote Richard Ashcroft: "Cause it's a bittersweet symphony this life Trying to make ends meet, you're a slave to the money then you die." That's basically our lives right now. Capitalism is freedom to very few people. What's a better alternative? |
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Post by The Escapist on Oct 18, 2017 11:57:05 GMT -5
I'm still reading page 5 but let me just quote Richard Ashcroft: "Cause it's a bittersweet symphony this life Trying to make ends meet, you're a slave to the money then you die." That's basically our lives right now. Capitalism is freedom to very few people. What's a better alternative? Anarcho-communism. |
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Post by jordan71421 on Oct 18, 2017 11:58:47 GMT -5
The definition of these systems and their real life execution are two different things. Ok then, I challenge you to find any way in which the societies you think are communist attempted to implement communism. I'm waiting. Cuba. The Cuban people's resilient spirit against the regime they have to live under is truly heartbreaking yet inspirational. Cuba is a living hell today, and that's why they flee to the US and neighboring countries. To get away from it. And the history of Cuba speaks for itself. |
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Post by funhouse on Oct 18, 2017 11:59:28 GMT -5
It would be fun to have a bet on when this discussion will have ended. I'll say September of 2019, but I could be wrong.
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Post by jordan71421 on Oct 18, 2017 12:02:20 GMT -5
It would be fun to have a bet on when this discussion will have ended. I'll say September of 2019, bit i could be wrong. Debate is very a beneficial thing as well as fun to do. But nevermind that, let's just talk about how Standing On the Shoulder of Giants' tracklisting should have been made instead. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2017 12:03:14 GMT -5
Why do Americans have this blind hatred on communism? They see red every time someone mentions it and its possibilities.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2017 12:04:32 GMT -5
It would be fun to have a bet on when this discussion will have ended. I'll say September of 2019, bit i could be wrong. It would be even more fun imo betting on how many people will have been swayed from their original opinion by that point. I'll cynically go for zero. (by 'swayed', I mean proper 'crossing the floor' sort of swayed) |
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Post by funhouse on Oct 18, 2017 12:05:28 GMT -5
Why do Americans have this blind hatred on communism? They see red every time someone mentions it and its possibilities. I'll have to add another year to my prediction. |
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Post by jordan71421 on Oct 18, 2017 12:08:14 GMT -5
Why do Americans have this blind hatred on communism? They see red every time someone mentions it and its possibilities. Because I believe that I live in a country that gives its' people the most freedom than any other society and I couldn't imagine having that freedom taken away from me. Just my point of view. |
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Post by funhouse on Oct 18, 2017 12:09:50 GMT -5
It would be fun to have a bet on when this discussion will have ended. I'll say September of 2019, bit i could be wrong. It would be even more fun imo betting on how many people will have been swayed from their original opinion by that point. I'll cynically go for zero. (by 'swayed', I mean proper 'crossing the floor' sort of swayed) Nah, I could easily see TheEscapist moving to the US, running for senate as a Republican in a few years time  |
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Nov 4, 2024 5:04:30 GMT -5
Nov 4, 2024 5:04:30 GMT -5