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Post by tomlivesforever on Oct 17, 2017 13:41:05 GMT -5
I have and can continue to live with never using the word based on how it makes others feel. It aint hard.
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Post by spaneli on Oct 17, 2017 13:41:54 GMT -5
You know, it actually isn't. Because some people use it with no discretion doesn't by nature make it hypocritical. So a few black people out of how many use the word in a vile setting that means it's inhetintely bad to not let someone else use the word? Please and stop. It's stuff like this. If a few black use the word poorly then that's their problem, separate from everyone else. That's an issue within a community. Because you know what, there's no black counsel who controls every black person with a rule of instructions along with a contract telling them how to use the it. Anything else is on an individual basis, and there will always be individuals. That doesn't make the inherent no-no of the word hypocritical. Because at that point, you and any other person is asking for a 100% success rate for the usage of said word. It’s not a case of who is allowed to say it. I’m stating that one group can use a word recreationally and the others can’t, which is inherently wrong. I understand the historical factors as to why they use it, but that doesn’t negate the fact it’s hypocritical. Also why would you want people to STOP talking about social issues like this? That does the exact opposite effect. Just because you’re from a certain group of people and I’m not doesn’t mean that I could never understand or empathize with you. That’s just a bullshit excuse of getting out of a discussion because you don’t have any valid points and it all comes from emotion. I don't think you get it, and I really really don't think you get the history behind it. You haven't brought up a valid point yet, except to explain to me why the culture I grew up in is hypocritical. Think about where you're going wrong in this argument because it's fairly clear. |
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Post by jordan71421 on Oct 17, 2017 13:45:54 GMT -5
It’s not a case of who is allowed to say it. I’m stating that one group can use a word recreationally and the others can’t, which is inherently wrong. I understand the historical factors as to why they use it, but that doesn’t negate the fact it’s hypocritical. Also why would you want people to STOP talking about social issues like this? That does the exact opposite effect. Just because you’re from a certain group of people and I’m not doesn’t mean that I could never understand or empathize with you. That’s just a bullshit excuse of getting out of a discussion because you don’t have any valid points and it all comes from emotion. I don't think you get it, and I really really don't think you get the history behind it. You haven't brought up a valid point yet, except to explain to me why the culture I grew up in is hypocritical. Think about where you're going wrong in this argument. Just because you grew up in it doesn’t mean that it still isn’t hypocritical by nature. You want people to understand where you’re coming from but then shut their viewpoint down because they could never understand your background. You’ll never listen to anybody because you are CERTAIN that you’re right. You’ll never understand other viewpoints this way. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2017 13:46:23 GMT -5
I get the police of keeping the forum as clean as possible but let´s not go to the extreme. No extreme is good. One thing is banning clear trolls, another one is taking offense to something that was not a discrimination slur of any means.
He clearly did not mean it in any homophobic way, and it´s all down to the context, which in this case had no harm intended. How many times in movies, tv series, etc, that we all like we heard the expression "Ah! So gay."or similar. It´s meant in a funny tone and in a very particular context. It´s not to be homophobic.
Either way, we were supposed to discuss HM. It may be shit to some people, great to others but that´s what the topic is about. I reckon if people want to continue this, take it to the play pen or something...
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Post by glider on Oct 17, 2017 13:48:49 GMT -5
The word and variations of it shouldn't be said by anyone, period. Even it with an 'a' has a bad connotation and is just as ridiculous as it with 'er'. I was raised not to call people derogatory terms, and I would assume others wouldn't want to be called something derogatory themselves. No one deserves a free pass for hate speech. A no to this too. "Nigga" is different from "nigger". Sorry, but that's the way it is. Because guess what What? Fuck is different from duck. It's not redicilous. That's language. Nigger is an affectionate term that's been judged by a community to be alright. Nigger has been judged not to be alright. True respect is respecting that a group of people have a right to choose how they should be referred to or how they should refer to each others. That's not ridiculous. I'm guessing you have a typo here, but what community outside racist ones said -er is alright? I find any version of that word wrong, nothing endearing or affectionate about it or its variations. |
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Post by spaneli on Oct 17, 2017 13:51:01 GMT -5
There's a whole group of non-black people trying to explain to a black person why their/his usage of a culturally defined word is hypocritical. No one sees an issue with this?
Please, while everyone is at it, explain to a woman what's sexist and what isn't. Or to a gay person what words are homophobic but not.
A group of people have the right to choose how they wished to be referred to as or how they should refer to each other.
There's a difference between having a conversation and then rolling in with your only valid arguement being that your culture is hypocritical. There are ways to open up conversation. Maybe just maybe by asking a question. There's no greater conversation starter than a question. But going up to someone and saying your cultural usage of a word is hypocritical isn't a conversation starter.
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Post by Godlike on Oct 17, 2017 13:54:45 GMT -5
A "few" black people use the word? Your obviously not from the u.s. then West Side of Chicago. A few black use the word poorly. But since you're more of an expert of black culture than me, then please black-splain to me. Pretty please enlighten me. Black-splain your hilarious girl!! My love grows for you more & more everyday 😁 |
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Post by jordan71421 on Oct 17, 2017 13:54:46 GMT -5
There's a whole group of non-black people trying to explain to a black person why their/his usage of a culturally defined word is hypocritical. No one sees an issue with this? Please, while everyone is at it, explain to a woman what's sexist and what isn't. Or to a gay person what words are homophobic but not. A group of people have the right to choose how they wished to be referred to as or how they should refer to each other. There's a difference between having a conversation and then rolling in with your only valid arguement being that your culture is hypocritical. There are ways to open up conversation. Maybe just maybe by asking a question. There's no greater conversation starter than a question. But going up to someone and saying your cultural usage of a word is hypocritical isn't a conversation starter. When you start to believe that people who do not share the same background as you could never understand or question it, you become as close minded as you think I am. |
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Post by A on Oct 17, 2017 13:57:29 GMT -5
There's a whole group of non-black people trying to explain to a black person why their/his usage of a culturally defined word is hypocritical. No one sees an issue with this? Please, while everyone is at it, explain to a woman what's sexist and what isn't. Or to a gay person what words are homophobic but not. A group of people have the right to choose how they wished to be referred to as or how they should refer to each other. There's a difference between having a conversation and then rolling in with your only valid arguement being that your culture is hypocritical. There are ways to open up conversation. Maybe just maybe by asking a question. There's no greater conversation starter than a question. But going up to someone and saying your cultural usage of a word is hypocritical isn't a conversation starter. When you start to believe that people who do not share the same background as you could never understand or question it, you become as close minded as you think I am. I don't know if that's a quote from someone, but it should be. It's great. |
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Post by spaneli on Oct 17, 2017 13:58:25 GMT -5
There's a whole group of non-black people trying to explain to a black person why their/his usage of a culturally defined word is hypocritical. No one sees an issue with this? Please, while everyone is at it, explain to a woman what's sexist and what isn't. Or to a gay person what words are homophobic but not. A group of people have the right to choose how they wished to be referred to as or how they should refer to each other. There's a difference between having a conversation and then rolling in with your only valid arguement being that your culture is hypocritical. There are ways to open up conversation. Maybe just maybe by asking a question. There's no greater conversation starter than a question. But going up to someone and saying your cultural usage of a word is hypocritical isn't a conversation starter. When you start to believe that people who do not share the same background as you could never understand or question it, you become as close minded as you think I am. I'm all for a conversation if someone wants to ask a question about black culture rather than jumping to a predefined conclusion. Not being closed minded is the willingness to ask a question, instead of trying to explain something to the person you should be asking a question of instead. Pretty sure that's in the Socratic method somewhere. |
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Post by mystoryisgory on Oct 17, 2017 13:59:54 GMT -5
I really cannot believe we're having a debate over whether black people can use "n***a" or not. What is it, 1861?
EDIT: Before anyone misinterprets this post, I'd like to say that you can't tell a community of people how they should refer to themselves. It's like how the Asian American band was banned from calling themselves The Slants because "slant" is a racist term for Asians. Who are you to tell a racial minority how they address each other?
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Post by jordan71421 on Oct 17, 2017 14:02:06 GMT -5
When you start to believe that people who do not share the same background as you could never understand or question it, you become as close minded as you think I am. I'm all for a conversation if someone wants to ask a question about black culture rather than jumping to a predefined conclusion. Not being closed minded is the willingness to ask a question, instead of trying to explain something to the person you should be asking a question of instead. Pretty sure that's in the Socratic method somewhere. I believe that the concept is one of a hypocritical nature. This goes beyond just your community. If one group can use a word in different ways, but every other group who tries to use is not socially allowed to, don’t you find that hypocritical? Just on its own merits, without bringing your background into your thinking. |
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Post by Godlike on Oct 17, 2017 14:02:59 GMT -5
Holy mountain SUCKS.. Will that change the subject? Someone fight me on that please so we can get off this stupid ass discussion
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Post by A on Oct 17, 2017 14:04:45 GMT -5
I really cannot believe we're having a debate over whether black people can use "n***a" or not. What is it, 1861? If it were 1861, we wouldn’t even be having this debate. We’d already know the answer. |
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Post by spaneli on Oct 17, 2017 14:05:36 GMT -5
Maybe just maybe asking the black person right in front of you a question about a word that's been, for better or for worse, defined by his culture might be the answer.
Like if you really care about the usage of a word then maybe that might be the course to take.
My girlfriend is Chinese. She believes that Taiwan is part of China. She was angry when I saw differently. We got into this big argument. It wasn't until I asked her why she was so invested in it that I was schooled in Chinese culture. I had been trying to explain to a Chinese person why their culture was wrong rather than asking why they felt this way, why they have this conclusion, what their past experiences were.
If I had cared a bit more about her thoughts, culture, and background that conversation would have been different.
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Post by glider on Oct 17, 2017 14:06:09 GMT -5
I get the police of keeping the forum as clean as possible but let´s not go to the extreme. No extreme is good. One thing is banning clear trolls, another one is taking offense to something that was not a discrimination slur of any means. He clearly did not mean it in any homophobic way, and it´s all down to the context, which in this case had no harm intended. How many times in movies, tv series, etc, that we all like we heard the expression "Ah! So gay."or similar. It´s meant in a funny tone and in a very particular context. It´s not to be homophobic. Either way, we were supposed to discuss HM. It may be shit to some people, great to others but that´s what the topic is about. I reckon if people want to continue this, take it to the play pen or something... A lot of things on here get blown out of proportion to which the topic deviates from music. Happens all the time. Usually fizzles out after a while and we get back on track. |
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Post by spaneli on Oct 17, 2017 14:07:11 GMT -5
I'm all for a conversation if someone wants to ask a question about black culture rather than jumping to a predefined conclusion. Not being closed minded is the willingness to ask a question, instead of trying to explain something to the person you should be asking a question of instead. Pretty sure that's in the Socratic method somewhere. I believe that the concept is one of a hypocritical nature. This goes beyond just your community. If one group can use a word in different ways, but every other group who tries to use is not socially allowed to, don’t you find that hypocritical? Just on its own merits, without bringing your background into your thinking. You're making this mistake again. You're not really asking a question to better understand the word, you're asking it to prove my feelings and background to be invalid. That by it's very definition is closed minded. |
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Post by mystoryisgory on Oct 17, 2017 14:07:18 GMT -5
I really cannot believe we're having a debate over whether black people can use "n***a" or not. What is it, 1861? If it were 1861, we wouldn’t even be having this debate. We’d already know the answer. Please read my edit and let me know if you still agree. |
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Post by walterglass on Oct 17, 2017 14:07:23 GMT -5
It kinda falls flat on its face as soon as you accept a huge percentage of black folk won’t go near that word.
At that point any accusation of hypocrisy falls flat on its face and any sense of possible cross-racial bonhomie becomes lost.
Also, I have close friends who can rip the piss out of me all day long. If a relative stranger tried the same they’d get short shrift, even if they meant no real harm. We can all grasp that, right?
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Post by walterglass on Oct 17, 2017 14:10:32 GMT -5
I understand it’s not for this thread, Mimmi, but it is important to have these conversations. |
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Post by mimmihopps on Oct 17, 2017 14:26:09 GMT -5
I've moved all those posts which a couple of members have been debating in "Holy Mountain Single" thread to this board to keep the original thread on the track. As I didn't know how I should name this thread, I gave no thread's title.
Thanks for your collaboration everyone. Cheers.
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Post by mystoryisgory on Oct 17, 2017 14:27:02 GMT -5
spaneli just wanted to tell you that I'm totally with you when it comes to how black people address each other. I'm not sure how people thought I was supporting the other side.
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Post by oasisserbia on Oct 17, 2017 14:31:28 GMT -5
As an actual black person, please don't use that word. Black people aren't proud to be called "nigger." Not one. My father grew up in segregationist South and was never proud to be called "boy" or "nigger." This isnt being PC, this is realizing that that word associations comes from spite. It's not as simple as no words are bad. Quite frankly, that's bullshit. Additionally, we may use the term, "nigga," in slang, but it's not for you to say how WE should use it. You're not aware of the genealogy or the shared condition of the word. That much is obvious because your argument is naive. It's essentially saying that if black people were more proud to be called nigger, turn the word around, then it wouldn't be a problem. I can be proud of myself without accepting the term, nigger, so don't lecture on something that you have no clue about. It is hypocritical that black people have a pass when using that word. I understand why they do and I wouldn’t police people’s words at all because I am a big fan of stand up comedy which routinely comes under scrutiny and I understand the importance of being allowed to say whatever you want. But it is inherently hypocritical when a group of people are allowed to use the word with little discretion but no other group is, regardless of its history There isn't probably one correct answer to all this, each situation is different. In my country, we never had slaves, black people who came to study here after WW2 were accepted as our brothers. No one was ever murdered just for being gay and that happened in US for example many many times. So, when I say that someone should proudly say that he is nigger when he is being bullied by some idiots, I assume that situation is happening in some relatively normal society where some idiots are just bullying him because he is different from them. Just like that they will bully someone because he/she has green eyes or blonde hair...Or if you have, I don't know, moustaches and people are calling you Hitler but your moustaches looks nothing like Hitler's and it's very offensive to you to be called by that name but you just use that as your strength and say, yeah, I'm Hitler, now fuck off. But I guess in some situations, some societies, there are still many opened wounds and some people don't want to be called nigger or Hitler... in any context. And if they said that it is offensive to them I won't use it again in their presence and will say that I'm sorry. To be honest, it doesn't mean that I agree with them, hell, I'm Serb from Croatia( if someone doesn't know what that mean he can google Jasenovac or Independent State of Croatia), I can act offended all the time but I understand them and recpect them and I won't push further. But I can have black friend and he can call me my nigga and I can call him my nigga and he will like that. If homosexual person can say- you look like gay, your music is gay, than I can also say that. If black person uses nigger than I will use it too. And I still think that is important to use it. Of course in this way www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=My%20niggaBut we are all different. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2017 14:38:31 GMT -5
I'm generally of the view that words are just words, which is part of my reasoning for thinking censoring one particular word on this forum is so utterly laughable, but "nigger" is loaded with history. The fact that some young black people choose to use it in an entirely different context is really neither here nor there. If you're comfortable with everything that comes with the word then feel free to use it, but that's pretty sociopathic imo.
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Post by mimmihopps on Oct 17, 2017 14:47:58 GMT -5
Jim, I'm so sorry that your post is placed as the first post in this thread. I made this thread to remove all those non-off topic posts from Noel's board. I also playpenned some posts in this thread. All I wanted was to keep the original thread on Noel's board on track, but it turned out a bit messy now. Hope you understand. Cheers.
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Nov 4, 2024 5:04:30 GMT -5
Nov 4, 2024 5:04:30 GMT -5