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Post by gemarcher1 on Aug 25, 2016 12:11:40 GMT -5
Oasis was not a great band 2000 to 2009. LOL
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Post by gemarcher1 on Aug 25, 2016 12:15:52 GMT -5
I can't tell if you're trolling or being serious here. That said, you nailed the concept of this thread. Here, have 10,000,000,000 internet points. And the band's dynamics suffered as soon as Gem and Andy joined. A decent pro and better technically he may be but Gem's presence and energy was nothing compared to Bonehead's. Noel's solos were brilliant when he was the main man and they suffered both live and in the studio because he let Gem do it all instead. Also, to me, the death of the Oasis sound I grew up with was the introduction of and increased use of the capo. Liam shit voice was the problem, not Gem or Andy.
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on Aug 25, 2016 12:30:27 GMT -5
Oasis was not a great band 2000 to 2009. LOL Lennon2217 and I are almost always in agreeance, but that quote is down right daft. Although, I'd amend it and say Oasis did not create a great (masterpiece) album 2000 - 2009. I think that's fairer.
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Post by As You Built The Moon on Aug 25, 2016 12:53:34 GMT -5
I never understood the Blur feud. As I read about it in books some time after it ended I kept thinking I should see something in Blur since I loved Oasis but they did almost nothing for me. The two bands sound nothing alike and I don't see how Blur were ever supposed to have the potential to "break America" half as much as Oasis did. I'm listening to Modern Life is Rubbish right now and ... how did Brits think people all over America were about to be listening to this? This was never going to get over here. All I can kind of understand is there was disagreement over whose music spoke more to the working class. And I don't see how Noel ended up making the infamous AIDS comment, or even paradoxically how there was enough of an outcry that he had to apologize for it.
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Post by Mean Mrs. Mustard on Aug 25, 2016 12:56:09 GMT -5
Lennon2217 and I are almost always in agreeance, but that quote is down right daft. Although, I'd amend it and say Oasis did not create a great (masterpiece) album 2000 - 2009. I think that's fairer. Well, what is reasonable, or good, and what is great?
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Post by Lennon2217 on Aug 25, 2016 13:22:54 GMT -5
Lennon2217 and I are almost always in agreeance, but that quote is down right daft. Although, I'd amend it and say Oasis did not create a great (masterpiece) album 2000 - 2009. I think that's fairer. Can you be a great band but never produce a "great" album during those years? I think not.
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Post by guigsysEstring on Aug 25, 2016 13:25:20 GMT -5
I never understood the Blur feud. As I read about it in books some time after it ended I kept thinking I should see something in Blur since I loved Oasis but they did almost nothing for me. The two bands sound nothing alike and I don't see how Blur were ever supposed to have the potential to "break America" half as much as Oasis did. I'm listening to Modern Life is Rubbish right now and ... how did Brits think people all over America were about to be listening to this? This was never going to get over here. All I can kind of understand is there was disagreement over whose music spoke more to the working class. And I don't see how Noel ended up making the infamous AIDS comment, or even paradoxically how there was enough of an outcry that he had to apologize for it. The 'feud' was never about breaking the USA to be fair, it was a slick piece of PR by NME editor Steve Sutherland and the Blur camp primarily, and was designed to build on Blur's career whilst boosting the circulation figures of the NME which historically had always fared better when there was a scene with 'whose better?' style debates going on. The thought that it was going to cross over to the USA was only fleeting and based on the Beatles vs Stones comparisons that were being bandied at the time, which neglected to take into consideration the thirty years of culture since then, the fragmentation of US music stations into rock n' roll, country, R n' B, etc. and the overwhelmingly British sound in particular of Blur that was no longer a new or exciting concept to US youth. The concept was also necessary on a wider scale to reintroduce British bands to the British public, as UK independent labels had been battered from early 1992 up until 1994/95 by the rise of Nirvana and the US bands that followed in their wake. The UK music publishing sector had a torrid year from 1992/93 with only major songwriters or fluke signings like songwriter Eugene Kelly of the Vaselines/Eugenius whose songs were covered by Nirvana (Molly's Lips, Jesus Wants Me For a Sunbeam and Son of a Gun) having any success. The interview with Noel Gallagher for The Observer where he made those comments was IIRC conducted the prior month by Danielle Sauve in Japan, and caught Noel a) possibly under the influence of alcohol (or perhaps but less likely drugs purely as in the 90's Japan was fairly puritanical about them) and b) Making one of his flippant but this time too far for the press comments. If you read the article at Oasis Interview Blogspot (under 'The Guardian 17th Sep) the writer makes no comment after she has mentioned the sentence, and in the same paragraph quotes Noel a saying "I'm on a line of coke every 40 minutes" which tells you where his head was at that point. The hysterical reaction was down to a number of reasons which included a UK that had been under nearly sixteen years of Conservative rule at that point with their hypocritical 'family values' type speeches, etc. along with a country that still only had four national TV channels and one real national radio station operator (BBC) so news was concentrated fairly quickly. Newspapers reported it because it a) sold copies to the public by placing a then highly successful, new and therefore relevant in culture celebrity on the cover, and b) suited the agenda of certain publishers (Daily Mail & General Trust and Rupert Murdoch's News International). It should also be noted that charities such as the Terence Higgins Trust used the furore to promote their own interests under the guise of outrage, which I do not blame them for as it is simply good PR, but it fanned the flames nonetheless in a climate in the UK & Ireland that was very much more in tune with the 1950's and before in terms of the older generations viewpoints. The UK began to change in the later 1990's and beyond with the election of Tony Blair, the age of public emotion beginning with the death of Princess Diana and broader economic, political and social aspects including European integration, opening up the public sector to privatisation even more arguably than Margaret Thatcher did in some respects, immigration and a change in social attitudes and contact led by the rise of social media platforms and technology based infrastructure, which for better or worse each aspect has helped changed the UK beyond recognition in some areas of life since the early 1990's and before as things evolve as they always have throughout history.
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Post by mystoryisgory on Aug 25, 2016 13:26:37 GMT -5
Oasis were not a Britpop band in the same way Blur and Pulp were.
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Post by guigsysEstring on Aug 25, 2016 13:37:19 GMT -5
Oasis were not a Britpop band in the same way Blur and Pulp were. Britpop like all tags was a marketing exercise in reality, same as labelling any bands or scene. The truly great bands of that era such as Blur, Oasis, Pulp, Radiohead, Supergrass, The Prodigy, The Verve, etc. had very little in common beyond actually being in a band and perhaps the instruments they used. The Britpop tag was useful in promoting both lesser bands from the second and third tiers of signings by their record companies who would have otherwise struggled to get them publicity, or in the case of a band like The Boo Radleys by changing their songwriting style they went from NME back pagers (with some good records I have to say) to being a band with a #1 album off the back of 140,000 sales and a hit single. It also helped magazine publishers increase sales of music related titles by being able to talk of a scene and it's (imaginary in many cases) participants. The same can be applied to most scenes, taking punk as an example how similar really were The Clash, The Sex Pistols, The Buzzcocks and X Ray Spex, aside from playing guitars and inspiring a rash of lesser imitators? Ultimately the good music either breaks through at the time or is seen in retrospect for what it was by way of it's later influence (NY Dolls, Velvet Underground, etc.) whilst the chancers who jumped on the bandwagon and got lucky are usually quickly forgotten.
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Post by Lennon2217 on Aug 25, 2016 13:48:36 GMT -5
Lennon2217 and I are almost always in agreeance, but that quote is down right daft. Although, I'd amend it and say Oasis did not create a great (masterpiece) album 2000 - 2009. I think that's fairer. Well, what is reasonable, or good, and what is great? For example, Definitely Maybe and Morning Glory fall into the "Great" classification. Both created in 1994 and 1995. A long fucking time ago. Then take Radiohead, they had two great records in the 90s, The Bends in 1995 and Ok Computer in 1997. They then went on to make TWO more great albums post 2000 in Kid A (2000) and In Rainbows (2007). We could even argue A Moon Shaped Pool (2016) falls into this class.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2016 14:09:13 GMT -5
Lennon2217 and I are almost always in agreeance, but that quote is down right daft. Although, I'd amend it and say Oasis did not create a great (masterpiece) album 2000 - 2009. I think that's fairer. Well, what is reasonable, or good, and what is great?
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Post by The Escapist on Aug 25, 2016 15:37:32 GMT -5
Well, what is reasonable, or good, and what is great? For example, Definitely Maybe and Morning Glory fall into the "Great" classification. Both created in 1994 and 1995. A long fucking time ago. Then take Radiohead, they had two great records in the 90s, The Bends in 1995 and Ok Computer in 1997. They then went on to make TWO more great albums post 2000 in Kid A (2000) and In Rainbows (2007). We could even argue A Moon Shaped Pool (2016) falls into this class. Amnesiac comes damm close too - this would be in the same class as those others IMO: 1. Packt Like Sardines in a Crushed Tin Box 2. Pyramid Song 3. Pulk/Pull Revolving Doors 4. You & Who's Army? 5. I Might Be Wrong 6. Knives Out 7. Fog 8. The Amazing Sounds of Orgy 9. Dollars & Cents 10. Hunting Bears 11. Like Spinning Plates 12. Life in a Glasshouse As for Oasis, I can't really see how anyone can argue they were a great band after 2000. We all love the brothers Gallagher but come on - arguably their best album in that period was 30% made of Put Yer Money Where Your Mouth Is, Little James, and I Can See a Liar - featuring hit singles such as Sunday Morning Call and Who Feels Love?. At their worst, they were releasing She is Love as a single and combining classics such as Better Man, (Probably) All in the Mind, Hung in a Bad Place, A Quick Peep and Born on a Different Cloud for an album that presumably offended God with more than it's heathen title. Ok, they released a lot of great songs in that time, but to be a great band you have to be able to bring it all together for a cohesive and consistent album IMO, and - although they came agonisingly close on SOTSOG and DOYS - Oasis never managed that after 2000 for me.
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Post by theyknowwhatimean on Aug 25, 2016 15:47:14 GMT -5
Maybe I need to give Amnesiac some more listens...
I thought it was absolute cack when I had it on last.
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Post by guigsysEstring on Aug 25, 2016 15:57:17 GMT -5
Maybe I need to give Amnesiac some more listens... I thought it was absolute cack when I had it on last. Cheers marra I owe myself a coffee I had an internal bet with myself that within ten minutes you would arrive to dismiss Radiohead's fifth LP
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2016 16:04:41 GMT -5
If you released Go Let It Out, Gas Panic!, Where Did It All Go Wrong?, The Hindu Times, Little By Little, Stop Crying Your Heart Out, Songbird, Lyla, The Importance Of Being Idle, Part Of The Queue, The Shock Of The Lightning, Bag It Up, The Turning, I'm Outta Time and Falling Down between 2000-2009 are you a great band imo.
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Post by The Escapist on Aug 25, 2016 16:26:36 GMT -5
Maybe I need to give Amnesiac some more listens... I thought it was absolute cack when I had it on last. I've a feeling I've told you this before, but Amnesiac took me ages to get into properly - there's a strong amount of Radiohead fans who consider it their best album, but I just couldn't help feel there was too many holes in it's tracklist to be worthy of following Kid A. Eventually, though, I was playing a point-and-click adventure game (they still exist!) which was set in a kind of post-apocalyptic industrial city while listening to the album and it all just clicked. The whole album is so bleak, stark and cold - and all the songs help to build this mysterious, metallic, nightmarish-ish atmosphere. It's not an album you can listen to regularly, but it's one that satisfies a certain mood like no other.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2016 16:45:36 GMT -5
Oasis were not a Britpop band in the same way Blur and Pulp were. Britpop was just a label that the media put on Oasis, in the same way that they tagged the Stone Roses with 'Madchester'.
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Post by matt on Aug 25, 2016 16:46:51 GMT -5
Roll with it and Wonderwall are rubbish. Swap them out for Acquiesce and Rocking Chair and that album would unquestionably be the best of all time.. DOYS is the third best Oasis album. Heathen Chemistry is the worst and Hindu Times is by far the band's worst single Love Like a Bomb is dreadful. So is Songbird. And Evil Eye (those lyrics are appalling!). In fact the only half decent Liam Gallagher songs are Little James and I'm Out of Time and even that suffers from the Lennon sample. Gem should have been made to play bar chords like Bonehead did. Their live sound got shit as they became more polished and his Don't Look Back in Anger solo was poor.Bonehead WAS Oasis. Any reunion needs that man in the band. That said, a reunion is an awful idea. The only person in the world who needs it is Liam. Yeah, this. The rawness, spontaneity and energy was taken away as a result.
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Post by guigsysEstring on Aug 25, 2016 17:17:41 GMT -5
Oasis were not a Britpop band in the same way Blur and Pulp were. Britpop was just a label that the media put on Oasis, in the same way that they tagged the Stone Roses with 'Madchester'. The Happy Mondays in their usual helpful way brought that term to prominence with this 1989 EP, bless them
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Post by matt on Aug 25, 2016 17:18:47 GMT -5
I never understood the Blur feud. As I read about it in books some time after it ended I kept thinking I should see something in Blur since I loved Oasis but they did almost nothing for me. The two bands sound nothing alike and I don't see how Blur were ever supposed to have the potential to "break America" half as much as Oasis did. I'm listening to Modern Life is Rubbish right now and ... how did Brits think people all over America were about to be listening to this? This was never going to get over here. All I can kind of understand is there was disagreement over whose music spoke more to the working class. And I don't see how Noel ended up making the infamous AIDS comment, or even paradoxically how there was enough of an outcry that he had to apologize for it. That was kind of the point though - the band were rebelling against the Americanisation of popular culture in the UK and were increasingly pissed off at their record label trying to get them to appease the American market. With its Anglocentric observations on the mundanities of middle class life, and some twee charm, humour and pessimism rolled into one, it was, as the band said, 'sticking two fingers up to America'. It Add to the fact that the music owed a great deal to vaudeville and music hall genre, everything about the album pointed towards the 'cultural vestiges' of England and what the band themselves felt was under threat with the looming Americanisation. I think it's a great album - it's the Village Green Preservations Society of its era. I admire the fact they were creating music they wanted to, and not what they had to according to popular trends. This album is the foundation of Britpop in my opinion and in going against the trend, it actually set a brilliant trend in itself.
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Post by guigsysEstring on Aug 25, 2016 17:20:46 GMT -5
Bless you matt for referencing one of the most criminally overlooked 1960's albums by Ray Davies
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Post by The Crimson Rambler on Aug 25, 2016 17:27:14 GMT -5
Hard to gauge some opinions but whatever...
- The brickwalling sucked even when Oasis was at their best. - Hiring Zak Starkey was a good move. - Dave Sardy is picked on unfairly. - The album cover of SOTSOG is lame. - Oasis only had two decent LP covers. Definitely Maybe's and Dig Out Your Soul's. - PYMWYMI, ICSAL, Ain't Got Nothing and The Nature of Reality are all far from Oasis's worst songs and the amount talk time they get on these forums is tiresome. - The Liam vs. Noel stuff is fine. - Nirvana were better than Oasis and Kurt Cobain was a better songwriter and more interesting guitarist than Noel and a better singer than Liam. That said I'd currently listen to Definitely Maybe over any Nirvana album. - Britpop wasn't great. - DBTT's success was largely built on Heathen Chemistry. - Most Oasis songs are about fuck all and to draw any overarching meaning from them requires some imagination. Take what you want from them but personally I'd feel like I'd be kidding myself.
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Post by drewsky34 on Aug 25, 2016 17:29:57 GMT -5
I try to convince myself that Liam sounded good after like 2000 because he's my boy but it just doesn't sound as good as it used to if I could go back in time to any time it would be 1995 to go see them live.
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Post by Lennon2217 on Aug 25, 2016 17:39:19 GMT -5
If you released Go Let It Out, Gas Panic!, Where Did It All Go Wrong?, The Hindu Times, Little By Little, Stop Crying Your Heart Out, Songbird, Lyla, The Importance Of Being Idle, Part Of The Queue, The Shock Of The Lightning, Bag It Up, The Turning, I'm Outta Time and Falling Down between 2000-2009 are you a great band imo. And surrounded by average songs and half baked albums. Even DBTT hasn't aged well despite the hype and love for it. I think it mostly shines because what came before it.......Heathen Chemistry.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2016 17:39:54 GMT -5
If you released Go Let It Out, Gas Panic!, Where Did It All Go Wrong?, The Hindu Times, Little By Little, Stop Crying Your Heart Out, Songbird, Lyla, The Importance Of Being Idle, Part Of The Queue, The Shock Of The Lightning, Bag It Up, The Turning, I'm Outta Time and Falling Down between 2000-2009 are you a great band imo. Who Feels Love and She Is Love too. But yeah like Lennon2217 said, half of the stuff is quite shite. If those were all EPs, they would be fucking amazing.
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