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Post by Beady’s Here Now on Jun 12, 2016 17:53:21 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2016 18:02:48 GMT -5
I don't understand why people saying that they want more gun control after something like this. If anybody wants to do something like this he will get a weapon, if it's legal or illegal.
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Post by mystoryisgory on Jun 12, 2016 18:13:12 GMT -5
Yes. Why don't we go back to Iraq to launch an all-out attack on Daesh? Because, y'know, it worked so well the last time.
Fighting terrorism is like fighting a hydra. No matter if the U.S. took out Daesh with a military campaign, there will always be another terrorist organization to take its place, just as Daesh overtook al-Qaeda. If you've ever had Muslim or Arab friends you'll know that they have a culture of avenging the deaths of their fellow brothers and sisters. Of course we've got to show force against terrorists when they threaten us, but we can also help the Muslim-American community feel more integrated into society. Yeah, you're probably gonna dismiss this as a liberal cliche, but understanding of other cultures can also help people identity signs of radicalization, rather than dismissing odd behaviour as "part of their culture".
It's also noteworthy that the Orlando shooter was flagged by the FBI as a potential radical Islamist, yet for reasons unknown, he was not investigated further. To me, the fact that he was identified as a possible terrorist and was still able to purchase firearms is a major failure of the current system of background checks. Even if he would still be able to obtain a weapon illegally, why do we have to make it easy for a terrorist to get one?
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on Jun 12, 2016 19:39:04 GMT -5
Yes. Why don't we go back to Iraq to launch an all-out attack on Daesh? Because, y'know, it worked so well the last time. Fighting terrorism is like fighting a hydra. No matter if the U.S. took out Daesh with a military campaign, there will always be another terrorist organization to take its place, just as Daesh overtook al-Qaeda. If you've ever had Muslim or Arab friends you'll know that they have a culture of avenging the deaths of their fellow brothers and sisters. Of course we've got to show force against terrorists when they threaten us, but we can also help the Muslim-American community feel more integrated into society. Yeah, you're probably gonna dismiss this as a liberal cliche, but understanding of other cultures can also help people identity signs of radicalization, rather than dismissing odd behaviour as "part of their culture". It's also noteworthy that the Orlando shooter was flagged by the FBI as a potential radical Islamist, yet for reasons unknown, he was not investigated further. To me, the fact that he was identified as a possible terrorist and was still able to purchase firearms is a major failure of the current system of background checks. Even if he would still be able to obtain a weapon illegally, why do we have to make it easy for a terrorist to get one? Obama pulling out of Iraq resulted in ISIS taking control. Both the left and right agree on this. Iraq was actually stable post-surge 2007 to Obama's 2011 withdrawal. Add Syria and Lybia to the mix as well. Say whatever you want about Obama, his foreign policy has been one big clusterfuck. Obama has left the Middle East in even more of a mess than his predecessor.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2016 7:11:56 GMT -5
this feels just like the marathon bombings all over again. my thoughts and prayers are with the victims and their families.
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Post by theyknowwhatimean on Jun 13, 2016 7:21:55 GMT -5
Twatty-chops Nigel using this tragedy to ram down all our throats his political beliefs, I see... Stay classy, Beady’s Here Now...
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Post by Lennon2217 on Jun 13, 2016 7:25:05 GMT -5
I don't understand why people saying that they want more gun control after something like this. If anybody wants to do something like this he will get a weapon, if it's legal or illegal. It doesn't help matters that it's not hard to get a gun in America. Making things like this harder to obtain might potentially deter these monsters. Also, nobody needs or should be able to buy assault rifles and machine guns. That's absurd and what these crimes are mostly done with. So sad and tragic. Senseless.
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Post by eva on Jun 13, 2016 7:41:05 GMT -5
ISIS didn't hit Orlando, a homophobic deranged american man with access to an assault rifle hit a gay bar. There's a huge difference. ISIS just heard the guy has afghan parents and thought "yeah, we did it. Terrorism. Be afraid."
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2016 7:52:56 GMT -5
ISIS didn't hit Orlando, a homophobic deranged american man with access to an assault rifle hit a gay bar. There's a huge difference. ISIS just heard the guy has afghan parents and thought "yeah, we did it. Terrorism. Be afraid." The man himself pledged allegiance to ISIS before committing this bastard act. Whether or not he had actual ties with ISIS are yet to be known. Either way, he shared their beliefs and used their ideology to justify taking innocent lives. To the argument about gun control... at this point more control would be like giving a band-aid to a corpse. Far too little, far too late. I'm not sure there is a good way to prevent, or even limit, acts such as these. Human beings make some really regrettable decisions from time to time, and no amount of legislation or restriction will curb that.
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Post by Lennon2217 on Jun 13, 2016 9:34:05 GMT -5
ISIS didn't hit Orlando, a homophobic deranged american man with access to an assault rifle hit a gay bar. There's a huge difference. ISIS just heard the guy has afghan parents and thought "yeah, we did it. Terrorism. Be afraid." The man himself pledged allegiance to ISIS before committing this bastard act. Whether or not he had actual ties with ISIS are yet to be known. Either way, he shared their beliefs and used their ideology to justify taking innocent lives. To the argument about gun control... at this point more control would be like giving a band-aid to a corpse. Far too little, far too late. I'm not sure there is a good way to prevent, or even limit, acts such as these. Human beings make some really regrettable decisions from time to time, and no amount of legislation or restriction will curb that. Harder to commit atrocities like This without an automatic machine gun. Americans don't need machine guns or army issue assault rifles. That's ridiculous. I'm pro gun control. If you make it harder to obtain and it prevents some tragedy in the future it's worth it. There is no argument for a lax attitude for gun control. Helps no one.
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Post by globe on Jun 13, 2016 9:48:51 GMT -5
Iraq was actually stable post-surge 2007 to Obama's 2011 withdrawal. Iraq was actually stable post-surge 2007 to Obama's 2011 withdrawal. Iraq was actually stable post-surge 2007 to Obama's 2011 withdrawal.
Iraq was actually stable post-surge 2007 to Obama's 2011 withdrawal.
Iraq was actually stable post-surge 2007 to Obama's 2011 withdrawal.
Iraq was actually stable post-surge 2007 to Obama's 2011 withdrawal. Iraq was actually stable post-surge 2007 to Obama's 2011 withdrawal.
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Post by sufuking perbley on Jun 13, 2016 9:53:44 GMT -5
Guns don't kill people, people kill people. But "a people" with a revolver in a night club would have killed 5 people, but the one with an automatic or even semi-automatic weapon would have killed 50. So yeah, gun control is necessary. But that doesn't really concern me, I will never and would never step foot into US of A. I say, give everyone a gun, let them kill each other until only sane people are left, for all I care.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2016 10:09:26 GMT -5
The man himself pledged allegiance to ISIS before committing this bastard act. Whether or not he had actual ties with ISIS are yet to be known. Either way, he shared their beliefs and used their ideology to justify taking innocent lives. To the argument about gun control... at this point more control would be like giving a band-aid to a corpse. Far too little, far too late. I'm not sure there is a good way to prevent, or even limit, acts such as these. Human beings make some really regrettable decisions from time to time, and no amount of legislation or restriction will curb that. Harder to commit atrocities like This without an automatic machine gun. Americans don't need machine guns or army issue assault rifles. That's ridiculous. I'm pro gun control. If you make it harder to obtain and it prevents some tragedy in the future it's worth it. There is no argument for a lax attitude for gun control. Helps no one. I'm not arguing against gun control... I just think people who immediately jump to that as some sort of end all solution are out of their f***ing minds.
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Post by eva Fawkes on Jun 13, 2016 14:26:47 GMT -5
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Post by eva Fawkes on Jun 13, 2016 14:28:47 GMT -5
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Post by LightsOffInside on Jun 13, 2016 16:39:49 GMT -5
I've thought a lot about gun control, and have come to the conclusion that is too late.
I am absolutely and positively anti-gun, but I've had a thought-
Imagine some awful, damaging drug was legal for years, then made illegal, who would be most affected by this? The good, honest, innocent people who aren't willing to commit crimes, would stop using the drug because, well, it's illegal now (forget about addiction etc in this example). Whereas the criminals, or those willing to do the drug anyway despite it being illegal, would KEEP using the drug, right?
Apply that thought process to guns- if a gun ban or similar is introduced, who will stop using guns? You guessed it, the innocent, honest, legal gun users, because they aren't willing to use them legally, i.e. for defence or whatever reason they claim. But those criminals or otherwise who are willing to break the law, the ones causing the violence and issues? They will continue to use guns, because they have already been in the country in great supply for too long, and they couldn't care less about breaking the law.
So what you are left with is the innocent people using guns for defence or legal uses having their weapons taken away, whereas the criminals and terrorists will keep theres and continue to cause damage.
So my point here - I suppose - is that it may not be a good idea to take guns away, because these people will always be able to get hold of guns because the US is already swimming in them, and continue to cause damage. The only difference would be that the innocent people would now be without their defense.
I'd like to repeat - I am completely anti-gun, but the issue here is that the US should never have allowed guns in the first place, as the system is now poisoned
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2016 16:45:15 GMT -5
I don't understand why people saying that they want more gun control after something like this. If anybody wants to do something like this he will get a weapon, if it's legal or illegal. But illegal weapons would be a lot harder to get and they would be more expensive if there wasn't so much guns in USA. This is 172. mass shooting in US this year, something is wrong with that country.
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Post by Elie De Beaufour 🐴 on Jun 14, 2016 4:39:01 GMT -5
Beady’s Here Now It was a mentally ill man who saw two men kissing in front of his kids. Anyone can do that mentally ill
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2016 9:04:38 GMT -5
I don't understand why people saying that they want more gun control after something like this. If anybody wants to do something like this he will get a weapon, if it's legal or illegal. But illegal weapons would be a lot harder to get and they would be more expensive if there wasn't so much guns in USA. This is 172. mass shooting in US this year, something is wrong with that country. It's not an issue of making certain, or all, guns illegal... the bigger issue is how do you get rid of all the weapons currently in circulation? Even the most righteous of law abiding citizens are not going to willing turn over their guns simply because a law has been passed. Again, I'm not against stricter gun laws, but the issue is much more complex than a simple ban on certain ones.
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Post by eva Fawkes on Jun 14, 2016 11:22:09 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2016 17:19:56 GMT -5
From fb comments: "The USA is like a drug addict/alcoholic, the rest of the world can see they have an addiction to guns, but they for the most part refuse to see it and make excuses as to why everyone there "needs" to own a gun, like it's still 1776 and they're afraid of British troops overrunning their lands."
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on Jun 14, 2016 17:49:31 GMT -5
It's not a gun issue.
We need to address it at a social-economic level. (And counter-terrorism as the case may be).
I also want to dispel a massive myth: The mentally ill are actually incredibly harmless. The mentally ill are the least likely to use violence.
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Post by Manualex on Jun 14, 2016 18:28:50 GMT -5
It's not a gun issue. We need to address it at a social-economic level. (And counter-terrorism as the case may be). I also want to dispel a massive myth: The mentally ill are actually incredibly harmless. The mentally ill are the least likely to use violence. I will Only ask one thing: Why the fuck would someone need a fucking AK-47?
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on Jun 14, 2016 22:15:12 GMT -5
Obama doesn't understand what labeling "Radical Islamic Terrorism" would accomplish. Here's the point: You can't solve a problem unless you know what you're trying to solve. #JVPresident
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Post by mystoryisgory on Jun 14, 2016 22:45:30 GMT -5
May I point out that this is more of a LGBTQ issue than one of Islamic terrorism? Something that conservatives (and this thread's original post) conveniently leave out to advance their war hawk agenda.
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