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Post by matt on Jun 10, 2016 17:27:36 GMT -5
A pretty vague question I know and not as simple as I make out but I was wondering if the days of culturally significant, seminal albums that captures a unique moment in society are over?
Of course, great albums continue to be released every year, but there hasn't been one of a seminal nature in a very very long time. Has society become too fragmented and individualistic for there to be an album that captures the public and critics imagination, has the digital age reduced the importance of the album by giving everyone so much to choose from with unprecedented access to everything, or have we reached saturation point with popular music having covered all basis of new revolutionary sounds?
The closest in recent years to seminal albums have probably been hip hop albums which have received plenty of attention and high critical praise, such as Kendrick Lamar's To Pimp A Butterfly but, in referral to saturation point, it's not unique in a sense that, stylistically, it isn't anything particularly new. Lamar is undoubtedly a talented rapper but there is familiarity there which means it lacks the impact of breakthrough albums that brought hip hop to the mainstream, like Straight Outta Compton. And this arguably goes for all genres - for all that these are great albums, they're not breakthrough events for a new type of music. Neither does it capture the general public imagination either.
Plenty of singers and bands see mainstream success (Adele for instance) but can't combine that with the plaudits of the critics. These types of singers come and go, whether that is Dido or James Blunt who sold buckets load but struggled to appease the critics. The music was a mish-mash of pleasing sounds, but nothing ground breaking (without sounding snobbish - as I admit I do enjoy a couple of Dido songs - that's putting it mildly!).
As I said, no doubt that great music continues to be produced and will continue to be produced. But those albums that really capture something special - the ability to form one large community and bedazzle all involved from the listeners to the critics, and be part of an event, surely those days are over?
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Post by mystoryisgory on Jun 10, 2016 23:51:44 GMT -5
This is a fascinating question whose answer depends on what you think was the last "great" album. I'm inclined to say that, though we might not have seen a "great" album, we may identify several albums of recent years as "great" because we would be able to see their immense cultural impact with the benefit of hindsight.
Your observation reminds me of how sometimes it seems that we'll never see another truly original or groundbreaking film from Hollywood ever again. Nowadays it appears that they've run out of ideas, and can only adapt popular novels (or even video games ffs!) or play to people's nostalgia in order to entice viewers.
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Post by Mean Mrs. Mustard on Jun 11, 2016 2:36:24 GMT -5
A fascinating question indeed, and one I've been thinking about a lot.
Guess it's a bit subjective too. What do you consider the last great album? What makes a great album? Does it have to be a classic?
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Post by mimmihopps on Jun 11, 2016 4:06:40 GMT -5
What "great" for me doesn't have to be great for others and absolute doesn't have to be a classic. If I was a writer of a music magazine, I would loose my job in the first week because I can't pretend to love what I hate. PS: Quality thread as always, matt and I mean it. |
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Post by Doc Lobster on Jun 11, 2016 4:50:03 GMT -5
I see the situation in a pretty simple way, really. The "system" has kidnapped our culture, in the sense that only commercial pap gets the necessary exposure since anything somewhat risky is seen as non-profitable. The cynics may tell you it's always been like that, but the truth stands that people like Frank Zappa were getting record contracts in the 60s, when the industry was willing to take risks just in case bands turned out to be the next Beatles.
Great albums will continue to be produced as long as there are creative people on this planet, particularly with the recent democratization of music production (anyone with a computer is able to produce a masterpiece nowadays). A lot of mindblowing, incredibly innovative stuff has been released in the last few years, particularly within electronic music. However, most of this stuff will continue to be noticed by a select few dedicated music fans.
So it all depends on what your definition of a great album is. Will we get generation-defining stuff most people seem to know and like (e.g., Sgt Pepper's)? Maybe not. On the other hand, an album like The Velvet Underground and Nico is considered an absolute classic nowadays yet sold few copies in its time. As Brian Eno put it, everyone who bought one of those copies started a band.
If there's another cultural revolution and we manage to abandon the shitty 40s/50s-like situation we're experiencing nowadays, in which the industry continues to push safe product for mindless consumers, I'm sure a lot of the music that's been produced in the last ten years is going to undergo a major critical revision.
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Post by tomlivesforever on Jun 11, 2016 5:19:47 GMT -5
There always used to be a balance between the production line pop music and the genuinely creative artists and bands. For the record I think there is a place for the manufactured stuff that the kids love but the problem now is the horrible inbalance between the two sides.
I think the onset of downloads and the catastrophic effrect it had on sales hit the money men in the music industry where it hurt. They have since then, taken less chances on people and given them much less time and so you have the merry go round of faceless pop artists who make a quick buck and disappear.
I honestly don't think there are enough music people in the music business. To get a deal these days seems like you have to tick a certain amount of boxes, there just doesn't seem to be anything instinctive about it any more.
And so to Matt's question. Will there be another great album? I think there will but you'll either have to look harder for it or it will be from a band or artist that hit the ground running. Its a bit frightening to consider how much great stuff we might have missed because to the recent musical climate.
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Post by Greedy's Mighty Sigh on Jun 11, 2016 5:21:18 GMT -5
Of course there will ffs
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2016 6:25:44 GMT -5
thing is a "great album" cant be predicted, like DM it just comes out of nowhere and sums up the culture at the time, though music is really weird for the most part nowadays, eg a lot of "singers" dont even write their own music, like Noel said, they have these teams of people that come up with stuff to get millions of views of youtube, its more commercialized and less about creating something personal.
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Post by Frank Lee Vulgar on Jun 11, 2016 7:58:06 GMT -5
I like this question a lot. It really comes down to what you think the last "great album" so far has been - the 90s had DM and Urban Hymns and OK Computer (and the list goes on and on), but it's a lot less obvious for the 2000s. (I'm way too far from rap/hip hop to talk about great albums in those directions.) If you expect a "great" album to be very good musically, original in sound and structure, and influential for a new generation/at least a direction of bands, there aren't many candidates. I'd call the debuts of Arctic Monkeys, The Strokes and The Libertines great in that sense, but I guess a lot of people would already disagree with me there. I'm with mystoryisgory in that it will take a while before we see whether an album is great - a lot of the 2002-2005 indie revival was down to the success of Britpop in the 1990s (I know that's generalized). Anything that has been great in the last decade should continue to influence new good bands for the next years, and it's probably too early to call that. |
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Post by boneheadsbolero on Jun 11, 2016 11:22:50 GMT -5
Good questions all. I'm sure there's more great albums to be had
in the future but will we ever hear them? Even know they exist? The
machine that was the industry has completely fallen apart in such
a weird way. The net is incredible, no doubt about that, but at what
cost? I tend to think that things were way better in the good old days
but were they? Anything I could possibly want is there for me for free
now at the push of a button. How can this not be great? And yet...........
Most of the old hands I like can't be bothered to even make albums
anymore and so to make up for it they charge you an arm and a leg
to see them play live. What do they play live? Nothing but old stuff
you've already heard 10 gazillion times. They're bored and passing
that boredom onto you, for a price. It blows for sure. There are no
easy answers here. There probably aren't any answers, period. It's
over for good as we knew it. Time marches on. This is the new
reality. Once upon a time rock n roll was numero uno. No 1 on
your hit parade. Bigger than sports. Bigger than television. Bigger
than movies. Now it's just entertainment option no 20 on the list of
ways to spend your time. Too bad. It was glorious in its day.
"All things must pass away"
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2016 11:38:00 GMT -5
Viva La Vida Or Death And All His Friends last great album?
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Post by theyknowwhatimean on Jun 11, 2016 11:53:22 GMT -5
When there's a music "scene" again, a subculture people can cling to and feed their energies and passions into - whatever form it may take - wonderful, generation defining records will start to get released again. When that will be, I don't know. I only wish it'd get a lick on though. It's been a while...
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Post by matt on Jun 11, 2016 11:59:41 GMT -5
There always used to be a balance between the production line pop music and the genuinely creative artists and bands. For the record I think there is a place for the manufactured stuff that the kids love but the problem now is the horrible inbalance between the two sides. I think the onset of downloads and the catastrophic effrect it had on sales hit the money men in the music industry where it hurt. They have since then, taken less chances on people and given them much less time and so you have the merry go round of faceless pop artists who make a quick buck and disappear. I honestly don't think there are enough music people in the music business. To get a deal these days seems like you have to tick a certain amount of boxes, there just doesn't seem to be anything instinctive about it any more. And so to Matt's question. Will there be another great album? I think there will but you'll either have to look harder for it or it will be from a band or artist that hit the ground running. Its a bit frightening to consider how much great stuff we might have missed because to the recent musical climate. Do you think these 'harder to find' albums will gain a legacy like, as Doc Lobster says, Velvet Underground & Nico? Interestingly as I never thought of it like that, that's a good example of an album that became seminal over time - not like Sgt Pepper or Definitely Maybe which were instant classics that captured the moment of that time. |
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Post by matt on Jun 11, 2016 12:03:35 GMT -5
When there's a music "scene" again, a subculture people can cling to and feed their energies and passions into - whatever form it may take - wonderful, generation defining records will start to get released again. When that will be, I don't know. I only wish it'd get a lick on though. It's been a while... But are sub-cultures too small these days to capture the general public imagination - a cultural movement like Britpop had a wide catchment because it had elements of nostalgia and cultural pride in Britain that everyone could make reference to (preferable to imperial pride!) ? |
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Post by Lennon2217 on Jun 11, 2016 12:07:30 GMT -5
Truly great albums over the last 16 years?
Kid A (2000)
Is This It (2001)
Yankee Hotel Foxtrot (2002)
Funeral (2004)
In Rainbows (2007)
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Post by glider on Jun 11, 2016 12:13:11 GMT -5
To Pimp A Butterfly will indeed be a seminal album, and has appealed to many listeners outside of hip hop.
As for another OK Computer type of record? Not sure to be honest. An album like that predicted the state of the 21st century.
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Post by matt on Jun 11, 2016 12:43:51 GMT -5
Truly great albums over the last 16 years? Kid A (2000) Is This It (2001) Yankee Hotel Foxtrot (2002) Funeral (2004) In Rainbows (2007) These are great albums - like many many more that have been released since then I feel. But are they seminal, cultural events? I'm not sure about Radiohead - none of their albums since have been as influential as OK Computer. The amount of bands that have nodded to that sound in endless. While I'm not saying that Kid A or In Rainbows are worse albums (in many ways, I personally prefer them) they didn't have the pioneering effect and mainstream attention that OK Computer had. The latter albums are arguably more refined in some ways but they didn't capture a particular moment. Likewise, Funeral - I am a massive fan of Arcade Fire but not many people can recall that album outside of music fans. |
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Post by Lennon2217 on Jun 11, 2016 13:20:34 GMT -5
Truly great albums over the last 16 years? Kid A (2000) Is This It (2001) Yankee Hotel Foxtrot (2002) Funeral (2004) In Rainbows (2007) These are great albums - like many many more that have been released since then I feel. But are they seminal, cultural events? I'm not sure about Radiohead - none of their albums since have been as influential as OK Computer. The amount of bands that have nodded to that sound in endless. While I'm not saying that Kid A or In Rainbows are worse albums (in many ways, I personally prefer them) they didn't have the pioneering effect and mainstream attention that OK Computer had. The latter albums are arguably more refined in some ways but they didn't capture a particular moment. Likewise, Funeral - I am a massive fan of Arcade Fire but not many people can recall that album outside of music fans. Kid A had massive hype. They did little to no promotion for it. No singles. The album topped the charts on both sides of the Atlantic, divided critics but now declared a masterpiece overall. It also spawned so many bands to push themselves and think outside the box. Kid A's influence remains huge. In Rainbows was a huge event. First new Radiohead album in 5 years, announced at random. Didn't leak. We all listened to it at the same time and shook the music industry to its core with its pay what you scheme. The Strokes debut made rock cool again, launched a 1,000 garage rock bands across America. Strokes had big time impact on the music scene between 2001 and 2005. |
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Post by matt on Jun 11, 2016 13:38:14 GMT -5
These are great albums - like many many more that have been released since then I feel. But are they seminal, cultural events? I'm not sure about Radiohead - none of their albums since have been as influential as OK Computer. The amount of bands that have nodded to that sound in endless. While I'm not saying that Kid A or In Rainbows are worse albums (in many ways, I personally prefer them) they didn't have the pioneering effect and mainstream attention that OK Computer had. The latter albums are arguably more refined in some ways but they didn't capture a particular moment. Likewise, Funeral - I am a massive fan of Arcade Fire but not many people can recall that album outside of music fans. Kid A had massive hype. They did little to no promotion for it. No singles. The album topped the charts on both sides of the Atlantic, divided critics but now declared a masterpiece overall. It also spawned so many bands to push themselves and think outside the box. Kid A's influence remains huge. In Rainbows was a huge event. First new Radiohead album in 5 years, announced at random. Didn't leak. We all listened to it at the same time and shook the music industry to its core with its pay what you scheme. Yeah but out with the music industry - there's not much in the way of discussion to the actual songs. Maybe I'm looking at it from the prism of Britpop and what went previously - these were hit albums that the general public took to their heart, but also received critical acclaim. Likewise, OK Computer which remains their highest selling album and has a reach to it unlike any other Radiohead album. Far out ambitious records like Dark Side of the Moon and Ziggy Stardust are some of the highest selling albums ever in the UK and capture the zeitgeist - the man on the street knows all about it. As great as those Radiohead albums are, and Funeral by Arcade Fire, they don't have the same universal attention to it like those genuinely seminal albums and they don't influence wider popular culture in general. I'm not talking about their undoubted impact on the music industry but the ability to actively influence life outside of it. David Bowie is perhaps the best example ever of a seminal influence. Before him, nobody dressed like him, sang like him or acted like him. His expressiveness and ability to break taboos with image and music is what marks him out as a seminal influence. Suddenly, we see hundreds and thousands of clones of him in art school or bands or on the high street. I'd say Oasis are a seminal influence - from a British point of view, they influenced fashion, music and marked the confidence and general attitude of Brits at the time (coming out of a bleak period, it felt like Brits were out of a rut). Oasis epitomised this and their influence on popular culture at the time and the results were in admittedly questionably bands they influenced but. What I am wondering is if an act will come along with great music but also enforce a movement culturally. |
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Post by johnwesleyharding on Jun 11, 2016 13:39:28 GMT -5
I read and re-read the thread but am still not sure I understand the question. A great album that is both commercially successful and era-defining? A soundtrack to the state of the world that unifies people across borders? A cross-cultural band with universal appeal above genre and living on indefinitely?
Great albums become great because someone loves them and shares that love. They share it and they go on and on becoming viral (before the term meant what it does now). There is always subjectivity associated with art. Personally, I think Kendrick Lamar is a very average rapper. I don't find his point of view or voice unique and have only been impressed by his verse on YOLO. He is having an impact and has respect in the industry and fans outside of his genre but I wouldn't say he made a great album. I may passionately love the work of someone while everyone around me views it as mediocre. On occasion, I push an artist on my friends and everyone loves it, but that record never makes a commercial splash. Is greatness dependent upon popularity?
I think our saturation point is reached because of the amount of available music. There is so much greatness, sifting through is daunting and not done enough for any amazing record to gain the appreciation it should. Hip-hop does seem to be the genre most invested in making great albums since most genres are filling out their three/four singles with material. That said, hip-hop is also responsible for pushing out mixtape after mixtape of throwaways to ensure the listening public doesn't forget they exist. |
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Post by uǝɥʇɐǝɥ on Jun 11, 2016 13:53:38 GMT -5
Hey, everyone, cheer up! Check out Sturgil Simpson! Metamodern sounds in Country Music is great too. You will like this, even if you are a Radiohead fan. The LP version is what I'm talking about.
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Nov 4, 2024 5:04:30 GMT -5
Nov 4, 2024 5:04:30 GMT -5