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Post by Lennon2217 on Mar 5, 2015 21:06:13 GMT -5
I rag on Noel so much over the AA project because he talked it up so much between July 2011 and January 2012. He said it was great and excited to released it. Then slowly but surely (once HFB became a big seller) did the narrative of his story change. I have no idea why Noel doesn't want to release. His quotes from then and now are a complete 180. I suspect something else is in play over this fiasco but not sure what it is. Probably a combination of many things. Noel should learn to zip it or hear endless fan speculation. I'd agree. However, it's not like he hasn't announced and had an album that he's highly touted prior. The difference this time is that he actually had time to think about the bravado he put out there. People here will always worship stuff that might in the end, only be barely listenable like DIV, which Noel still gets flack for though I don't believe he ever paraded that project as much, and the AA sessions. Personally, I'm all for artists throwing caution to the wind and experimenting, but I'm all for them doing that confidently. As you said, something happened and in my opinion it wasn't just one thing. However, I think it's too simple to just say this is down to a loss of nerve or he's a p u s s y. I think this is far more complex than ego, credit, management, or anything else goes. And I do think that it's probably not that good. Because if it was that good, does anyone really think Noel would sit on an album that could be amazing because of a bruised ego? That he would embarrassingly retreat that hard because management told him? That just doesn't add up to me. The simplest answer is to begin with the thing that no one wants to admit. That noel did what noel always does. He misjudged his own material, got cocky, gained perspective later, and then retreated. Sound familiar? Sound like his strategy with BHN? Another album that has good songs, but the songs aren't represented well. The only difference is that he released BHN. The simplest route is that Noel truly believes it's shit. Anything else just becomes a conspiracy theory. Of cours when I call Noel a "P U S S Y" I'm only being half serious. I've long given up on ever hearing the AA album. Not gonna lie, when he announced it I was more excited for that than his straight forward HFB record. As weeks turned to months the reality of the situation set in, that the AA album would never be released. Oh well. These things happen. Noel did respond with a kick ass sophomore album though. Great listen thus far. I'll always wonder what projects like Death In Vegas and AA might have sounded like. With songs like Shoot A Hole, The Death of You and Me, Freaky Teeth, The Right Stuff, The Mexican and The Ballad of The Mighty I, that AA project peaks my interest even more.
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Post by tomlivesforever on Mar 6, 2015 4:09:40 GMT -5
What a fucking joke. This really isn't about quality control is it, its about a loss of nerve. To be fair, Noel has not been saying the reason he didn't release AA's versions of his songs was because of them being sprawling 12 minute odes to female sex sounds. He has said that he doesn't think the recordings were that good. There's a big difference. Him defining it more by saying that the songs were good, but representation of them was not deepens that sentiment. No one has gone with the simplistic explanation in all of this. That maybe, just maybe, Noel is telling the truth. That they're really not that good. Because as Noel points out, why would he drop over 100k on a record and then lose his nerve? One would think he'd been more frugal about losing his nerve? There's no courage or nerve in releasing something you think is shit. There's just stupidity. Personally, I'd love to hear it, but that's because I'm a fan. Fans don't care. Fans just want music. Fans arent required to think of a large picture and it's very easy for them to call an artist a "pussy" because they won't release a piece of music. But if Noel truly believes it's shit and is willing to eat that much money on it, for something he knows he'd probably make the money back automatically the second he released it anyways, says a lot about the actual state of the recordings. Why eat that much money? I have a hard time believing it's all ego, spotlight, and loss of nerve. For me, that makes little sense. At some point, even for someone as rich as Noel, the money matters. And having to dole out a 100k and producing credits on a solo album and then dealing with the embarrassment of giving up on a project that he had bragged about seems like a large price to pay, even for Noel, for something that's only a "loss" of nerve. It just doesn't add up for me. Ego, spotlight and a loss of nerve have been occurring in music for decades. Dylan in a sense lost his nerve by releasing a different version of Blood On The Tracks and I'm sure there are many, many other examples. A lot of people might say that your first instincts are right and when you start second guessing yourself that's when it goes downhill and your opinions change, I think that's what happened here. You rate the money as more important than going back on it? I don't think its about money and I don't think it was as much as he said. I think Noel has a bit to much management bullshit involved. He has been a stellar songwriter and he has earn't the right to do whatever he wants whenever he wants. I just feel from the interviews he's gives they have to much say. Noel is worth tens of millions for fucks sake, he should say my next album is coming out on Xmas day and that's fucking that. The biggest shame to me is that I love 'The Right Stuff', my favorite song on the record and it shows what happens when Noel just stretches himself that little bit and you can hear the AA influence all over it. Frankly he should have left more production over the Mexican because its horrible. It just comes down to whether you believe Noel or not and having to listened to him over the last 20 years he's quite adept at some exaggeration or a convincing story to suit his purpose. I'm thinking of a man who musically has changed very little over the last 20 years. His music is very good but it s always relatively safe and comfortable to him. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that but put what he was going to release with AA context of his discography. I shouldn't really be surprised should I...
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Post by Corky Ianucci on Mar 6, 2015 5:58:15 GMT -5
I kinda think Noël just didn't like AA guys and didn't like working with them. And hearing the mixes and having a little doubt adds any reason to just decide to re record songs over. Doing takes over and over, and Noel also mentioned trying to call the AA at one point and one of them said no one talks to the other or something like that. I'm for eccentricity but that goes into the realm of flaky. Noël at that point should've said, "You know I'm paying for this, right? And you're acting like flaky space cadets." Sorry if my post is too long. tomlivesforever, your post is too long, articulate and thought out. Thanks.
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Post by Mean Mrs. Mustard on Mar 6, 2015 6:54:28 GMT -5
"Flaky space cadets"
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Post by spaneli on Mar 6, 2015 8:26:00 GMT -5
To be fair, Noel has not been saying the reason he didn't release AA's versions of his songs was because of them being sprawling 12 minute odes to female sex sounds. He has said that he doesn't think the recordings were that good. There's a big difference. Him defining it more by saying that the songs were good, but representation of them was not deepens that sentiment. No one has gone with the simplistic explanation in all of this. That maybe, just maybe, Noel is telling the truth. That they're really not that good. Because as Noel points out, why would he drop over 100k on a record and then lose his nerve? One would think he'd been more frugal about losing his nerve? There's no courage or nerve in releasing something you think is shit. There's just stupidity. Personally, I'd love to hear it, but that's because I'm a fan. Fans don't care. Fans just want music. Fans arent required to think of a large picture and it's very easy for them to call an artist a "pussy" because they won't release a piece of music. But if Noel truly believes it's shit and is willing to eat that much money on it, for something he knows he'd probably make the money back automatically the second he released it anyways, says a lot about the actual state of the recordings. Why eat that much money? I have a hard time believing it's all ego, spotlight, and loss of nerve. For me, that makes little sense. At some point, even for someone as rich as Noel, the money matters. And having to dole out a 100k and producing credits on a solo album and then dealing with the embarrassment of giving up on a project that he had bragged about seems like a large price to pay, even for Noel, for something that's only a "loss" of nerve. It just doesn't add up for me. Ego, spotlight and a loss of nerve have been occurring in music for decades. Dylan in a sense lost his nerve by releasing a different version of Blood On The Tracks and I'm sure there are many, many other examples. A lot of people might say that your first instincts are right and when you start second guessing yourself that's when it goes downhill and your opinions change, I think that's what happened here. You rate the money as more important than going back on it? I don't think its about money and I don't think it was as much as he said. I think Noel has a bit to much management bullshit involved. He has been a stellar songwriter and he has earn't the right to do whatever he wants whenever he wants. I just feel from the interviews he's gives they have to much say. Noel is worth tens of millions for fucks sake, he should say my next album is coming out on Xmas day and that's fucking that. The biggest shame to me is that I love 'The Right Stuff', my favorite song on the record and it shows what happens when Noel just stretches himself that little bit and you can hear the AA influence all over it. Frankly he should have left more production over the Mexican because its horrible. It just comes down to whether you believe Noel or not and having to listened to him over the last 20 years he's quite adept at some exaggeration or a convincing story to suit his purpose. I'm thinking of a man who musically has changed very little over the last 20 years. His music is very good but it s always relatively safe and comfortable to him. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that but put what he was going to release with AA context of his discography. I shouldn't really be surprised should I... You make valid points, especially bringing in Dylan. The longer acoustic version of Shelter from the Storm is still one of my favorite songs by him though he went for a more upbeat version for the album. However, let's say Noel does exaggerate, then how does one only apply it to only his stories of AA post scrapping the album? In that case, shouldn't we also assume that he over exaggerated the quality of the AA album from the very beginning? As I said, maybe it wasn't that good. In the sense, that Flick of the Finger, which was up for previous Oasis records might not have been that good until Sitek got his paws on it. I dislike making leaps into the, well this song is my favorite song on the album and it had a chance before so it must have been just as good before realm. There's no way of really knowing how much of AA's production was used on the final track and it seems Noel did say that for his record he dialed it back from the original. So, there had to be some distinct differences between the two. Especially considering Noel and Stacey said that the original they were working from in studio, whether that was the AA version, was 8 minutes. Which would fit Noel's description that some of the tracks weren't focused and only a few were salvageable, so he did those for this album. I just need to find too many jumps in reason. If you say that we shouldn't believe Noel because he exaggerates, then it should be applied to the very point he announced the project to now, not just now. So, as I said, maybe he literally just doesn't like it. Maybe he exaggerated the quality from the beginning and is exaggerating now to cover up his misjudgment. Again, sound like BHN much? I think that's the most simplistic and even explanation rather than applying his sense of exaggeration to only one section of this story in order to prove another.
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Post by Lennon2217 on Mar 6, 2015 8:33:58 GMT -5
Ego, spotlight and a loss of nerve have been occurring in music for decades. Dylan in a sense lost his nerve by releasing a different version of Blood On The Tracks and I'm sure there are many, many other examples. A lot of people might say that your first instincts are right and when you start second guessing yourself that's when it goes downhill and your opinions change, I think that's what happened here. You rate the money as more important than going back on it? I don't think its about money and I don't think it was as much as he said. I think Noel has a bit to much management bullshit involved. He has been a stellar songwriter and he has earn't the right to do whatever he wants whenever he wants. I just feel from the interviews he's gives they have to much say. Noel is worth tens of millions for fucks sake, he should say my next album is coming out on Xmas day and that's fucking that. The biggest shame to me is that I love 'The Right Stuff', my favorite song on the record and it shows what happens when Noel just stretches himself that little bit and you can hear the AA influence all over it. Frankly he should have left more production over the Mexican because its horrible. It just comes down to whether you believe Noel or not and having to listened to him over the last 20 years he's quite adept at some exaggeration or a convincing story to suit his purpose. I'm thinking of a man who musically has changed very little over the last 20 years. His music is very good but it s always relatively safe and comfortable to him. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that but put what he was going to release with AA context of his discography. I shouldn't really be surprised should I... You make valid points, especially bringing in Dylan. The longer acoustic version of Shelter from the Storm is still one of my favorite songs by him though he went for a more upbeat version for the album. However, let's say Noel does exaggerate, then how does one only apply it to only his stories of AA post scrapping the album? In that case, shouldn't we also assume that he over exaggerated the quality of the AA album from the very beginning? As I said, maybe it wasn't that good. In the sense, that Flick of the Finger, which was up for previous Oasis records might not have been that good until Sitek got his paws on it. I dislike making leaps into the, well this song is my favorite song on the album and it had a chance before so it must have been just as good before realm. There's no way of really knowing how much of AA's production was used on the final track and it seems Noel did say that for his record he dialed it back from the original. So, there had to be some distinct differences between the two. Especially considering Noel and Stacey said that the original they were working from in studio, whether that was the AA version, was 8 minutes. Which would fit Noel's description that some of the tracks weren't focused and only a few were salvageable, so he did those for this album. I just need to find too many jumps in reason. If you say that we shouldn't believe Noel because he exaggerates, then it should be applied to the very point he announced the project to now, not just now. So, as I said, maybe he literally just doesn't like it. Maybe he exaggerated the quality from the beginning and is exaggerating now to cover up his misjudgment. Again, sound like BHN much? I think that's the most simplistic and even explanation rather than applying his sense of exaggeration to only one section of this story in order to prove another. Noel also said in that recent Minneapolis interview from 2-3 days ago that when he says something he 100% believes in it at that moment and even if he changes his opinion later, at some point there must have been a reason he liked it so much. He wasn't even talking about the AA project but you can apply his ethos to it as well. He fucking loved it in July 2011 and hated it in 2013. Seems extreme. With the songs we know are on that album, I wonder just how bad it can be. Somebody break into Noel's house and steal the lone copy please.
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Post by spaneli on Mar 6, 2015 8:34:19 GMT -5
I kinda think Noël just didn't like AA guys and didn't like working with them. And hearing the mixes and having a little doubt adds any reason to just decide to re record songs over. Doing takes over and over, and Noel also mentioned trying to call the AA at one point and one of them said no one talks to the other or something like that. I'm for eccentricity but that goes into the realm of flaky. Noël at that point should've said, "You know I'm paying for this, right? And you're acting like flaky space cadets." Sorry if my post is too long. tomlivesforever, your post is too long, articulate and thought out. Thanks. This. I remembering hearing some of that and thinking, this doesn't sound like it's his album. From those stories, if true, he was treated like a glorified session player. Not the best way for AA to act toward someone who was not only paying the bills and salary, but was also supposed to be a colleague. I'd been miffed too. But obviously someone will jump in say AA were victims and those stories can't be proven. Personally, I don't think Noel was this big bad corporate monster and AA were only this pure free spirited music group whose project he attempted to crush. AA had to have had some faults too on their end for this project to end. In this situation, it's rarely just one side that causes self destruction
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Post by Lennon2217 on Mar 6, 2015 8:39:03 GMT -5
So I know a guy in London I use to go to college with. He works as a sound engineer. He managed to get his hands on this EXCLUSIVE footage of Noel working with the AA guys. Amazing stuff. Noel was right. This is shit.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2015 9:17:07 GMT -5
I reckon they probably were good, really good. But Noel thought he could get more out of the songs on his own on CY, which to be fair, the tunes on this album sound and are brilliant! I'm as annoyed as anyone (trust me) that this album will never see the light of day, but it could have been to his new albums detriment that slightly inferior versions of songs like BOTMI, Mexican, Right Stuff, Dying Of The Light went out on a side project.
Imo, this whole ordeal was because Noel wanted to make HIS second solo album as good as it possibly could be. What doesn't make sense to me however is why the AA collaboration hasn't been released alongside this as a bonus CD. DOYS got a bonus CD of remixes and alternative versions of the album tracks, why couldn't this?
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Post by Doc Lobster on Mar 6, 2015 9:51:28 GMT -5
Not to hijack the discussion, but since some of you are citing Blood on the Tracks: the ultimate version is Side A from the relased album and Side B from the New York sessions. Try it. As for the AA album: I'm still supporting the simplistic explanation that Noel doesn't like it, whatever the actual quality is. Gaz seems like a bit of a character and I wouldn't take his opinion religiously (have you read his posts? They are a mess! ). I would bet there's quite a bit of nice music in there but Noel thought he could improve the songs. For example, he mentioned having a version of BOTMI with sitars and stuff and I wouldn't want it any other way than how it appears on CY since it's perfect.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2015 9:49:31 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2015 4:54:25 GMT -5
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Post by matt on Apr 4, 2015 8:37:30 GMT -5
I think this echoes what a lot of us have been saying here. The worst aspects of Chasing Yesterday - for me - are the tunes which are fairly standard and unexceptional - these are Lock All The Doors and Girl With X Ray Eyes. They're nice tunes to listen to, but sonically, I find them mind numbingly dull. The best things about Chasing Yesterday are the most surprising aspects of it - Riverman, Right Stuff, Ballad Of Mighty I and elements of Dying of the Light and Song Remains a The Same. I'll be very very disappointed if Noel takes the route carved out by the more unambitious tunes on this current record for the next one, and I will be very disappointed if he doesn't pursue the more interesting aspects of this one.
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Post by Lennon2217 on Apr 4, 2015 9:36:28 GMT -5
I think this echoes what a lot of us have been saying here. The worst aspects of Chasing Yesterday - for me - are the tunes which are fairly standard and unexceptional - these are Lock All The Doors and Girl With X Ray Eyes. They're nice tunes to listen to, but sonically, I find them mind numbingly dull. The best things about Chasing Yesterday are the most surprising aspects of it - Riverman, Right Stuff, Ballad Of Mighty I and elements of Dying of the Light and Song Remains a The Same. I'll be very very disappointed if Noel takes the route carved out by the more unambitious tunes on this current record for the next one, and I will be very disappointed if he doesn't pursue the more interesting aspects of this one. Noel can, has and will excel when he lets his hair down. He should do it more but probably won't.
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Post by Greedy's Mighty Sigh on Apr 4, 2015 9:58:54 GMT -5
the only suprising thing about riverman is when you realise after a few seconds that it isnt wonderwall
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Post by carlober on Apr 5, 2015 3:40:15 GMT -5
the only suprising thing about riverman is when you realise after a few seconds that it isnt wonderwall Sorry, I can't hear Wonderwall in it at all. Unless every song which starts with some acoustic guitar strums reminds you of Wonderwall...
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Post by Mean Mrs. Mustard on Apr 5, 2015 4:28:54 GMT -5
the only suprising thing about riverman is when you realise after a few seconds that it isnt wonderwall Sorry, I can't hear Wonderwall in it at all. Unless every song which starts with some acoustic guitar strums reminds you of Wonderwall... Agree.
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Post by tomlivesforever on Apr 5, 2015 4:45:40 GMT -5
I think this echoes what a lot of us have been saying here. The worst aspects of Chasing Yesterday - for me - are the tunes which are fairly standard and unexceptional - these are Lock All The Doors and Girl With X Ray Eyes. They're nice tunes to listen to, but sonically, I find them mind numbingly dull. The best things about Chasing Yesterday are the most surprising aspects of it - Riverman, Right Stuff, Ballad Of Mighty I and elements of Dying of the Light and Song Remains a The Same. I'll be very very disappointed if Noel takes the route carved out by the more unambitious tunes on this current record for the next one, and I will be very disappointed if he doesn't pursue the more interesting aspects of this one. Noel can, has and will excel when he lets his hair down. He should do it more but probably won't. Yep. Gaz pretty much confirms what I already thought. I know a lot of people here wouldn't like it because they care about chart positions, sales etc. but I would love to see Noel put out something different with little to no promotion maybe not even a tour of any kind.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2015 6:27:59 GMT -5
the only suprising thing about riverman is when you realise after a few seconds that it isnt wonderwall Don't you write for the Guardian?
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Post by Greedy's Mighty Sigh on Apr 5, 2015 6:31:23 GMT -5
the only suprising thing about riverman is when you realise after a few seconds that it isnt wonderwall Sorry, I can't hear Wonderwall in it at all. Unless every song which starts with some acoustic guitar strums reminds you of Wonderwall... give over
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Post by tomlivesforever on Apr 5, 2015 6:41:25 GMT -5
Sorry, I can't hear Wonderwall in it at all. Unless every song which starts with some acoustic guitar strums reminds you of Wonderwall... give over But the song as a whole sounds nothing like Wonderwall. In the same way that DYKWIM sounds nothing like it.
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Post by carlober on Apr 5, 2015 15:26:22 GMT -5
Sorry, I can't hear Wonderwall in it at all. Unless every song which starts with some acoustic guitar strums reminds you of Wonderwall... give over Stop trolling...
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Post by Greedy's Mighty Sigh on Apr 5, 2015 17:36:29 GMT -5
Stop trolling... eh? It starts with the exact same chords, Its wearing thin now. so many people have pointed it out, Its better people, dyou know what i mean, broken arrow its boring.
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Post by defmaybe00 on Apr 5, 2015 17:42:27 GMT -5
Let's say it starts with the same chords,it's a completely different song,it's not even close
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2015 17:51:34 GMT -5
Stop trolling... eh? It starts with the exact same chords, Its wearing thin now. so many people have pointed it out, Its better people, dyou know what i mean, broken arrow its boring. Wonderwall - Em7, G, Dsus4, A7sus4 with capo 2 Riverman - Am, Asus4 with capo 8 Different chords.
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