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Post by spaneli on Feb 20, 2017 11:45:57 GMT -5
What's up with all this hate/negativity against Gaz all of a sudden? Seems uncalled-for, IMO. Don't think there's incredible hate for Gaz. But I'm not going to blindly follow what he says without critically analyzing it. I don't believe that Noel was 100% right for what he did, but that doesn't equate to Gaz being 100% correct either. Nevertheless, I think most people have been incredibly supportive of Gaz. Though he does have the tendency to be overly dramatic in his explanation, and sometimes overly verbose.
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Post by shoreline on Feb 20, 2017 11:54:49 GMT -5
What's up with all this hate/negativity against Gaz all of a sudden? Seems uncalled-for, IMO. Don't think there's incredible hate for Gaz. But I'm not going to blindly follow what he says without critically analyzing it. I don't believe that Noel was 100% right for what he did, but that doesn't equate to Gaz being 100% correct either. Nevertheless, I think most people have been incredibly supportive of Gaz. Though he does have the tendency to be overly dramatic in his explanation, and sometimes overly verbose. Nothing wrong with some balanced, constructive criticism. I'm thinking more about the people who got nothing else to say than (stuff along the lines of) "Gaz seems to be having a cry-wank, Gaz is a very bitter man, he seems like the guy who likes the sound of his own voice, Gaz is so obsessed with Noel" etc. That's a different thing.
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Post by matt on Feb 20, 2017 12:09:37 GMT -5
Don't think there's incredible hate for Gaz. But I'm not going to blindly follow what he says without critically analyzing it. I don't believe that Noel was 100% right for what he did, but that doesn't equate to Gaz being 100% correct either. Nevertheless, I think most people have been incredibly supportive of Gaz. Though he does have the tendency to be overly dramatic in his explanation, and sometimes overly verbose. Nothing wrong with some balanced, constructive criticism. I'm thinking more about the people who got nothing else to say than (stuff along the lines of) "Gaz seems to be having a cry-wank, Gaz is a very bitter man, he seems like the guy who likes the sound of his own voice, Gaz is so obsessed with Noel" etc. That's a different thing. Fans of Dave Sardy infused dad rock.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2017 16:14:55 GMT -5
He's clearly bitter as fuck and does think very highly of himself but also clearly has reason for at least the former. If people keep asking, why wouldn't he keep answering? We're listening and Noel's not going to sue him so he may as well tell his story if he wants to.
There's two sides to every story and I'm sure Noel and others would have seen aspects of it differently, but there's no reason to think he's lying. What I really don't understand about the whole thing is why Noel didn't say something like "they worked hard at it, but in the end I didn't like what we produced and I scrapped it"? There was no fucking reason to start slagging them off.
The way Noel treats people is appalling and we've seen it time and again.
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Post by uboasis on Feb 20, 2017 17:45:18 GMT -5
I love Noel and Liam but this is disappointing. Probably the one time I've been disappointed by Oasis. Two points on this. I want to see if people agree or disagree.
I've said this in the past, but does anyone think it is a distinct possibility that Noel released the AA Version of AKA What A Life because it's 15 minutes of mostly garbage and he wanted fans to no longer desire the AA album? It temporarily worked for me. If the AA album was going to be like WAL remix, then no thanks. But hearing what they've done with Paul Weller and the Right Stuff, and reading about what Gaz said, I really do think the album would have been good. Do you agree?
Also, I think Liam will never win the general public court of opinion vs Noel. But after this, if Liam comes out with a bold, modern, adventurous album that is halfway decent, he would win the court of public opinion among regular board members here vs Noel. Do you agree?
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Post by Gas Panic on Feb 21, 2017 6:11:20 GMT -5
One day they are going to release a film about the AA album/sessions I think, Oasis fans would die to see it.
They could finally release the album simultaneously? Maybe in 2021 for the 10 year anniversary of NGHFB.
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Post by Doc Lobster on Feb 21, 2017 6:41:50 GMT -5
One day they are going to release a film about the AA album/sessions I think, Oasis fans would die to see it. They could finally release the album simultaneously? Maybe in 2021 for the 10 year anniversary of NGHFB.
Nothing like that will happen while Noel is alive. The AA album doesn't have the legendary status of, say, Smile for a film to be made. Apart from the members and lurkers of this forum (and AA fans, I would assume), not many people even remember the Noel/AA episode.
My bet is that in a few years (potentially, many) we'll get a few selected tracks on a HFB/CY reissue or some sort of rarities compilation. I don't think we'll get the whole album, particularly as a standalone release.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2017 6:53:01 GMT -5
One day they are going to release a film about the AA album/sessions I think, Oasis fans would die to see it. They could finally release the album simultaneously? Maybe in 2021 for the 10 year anniversary of NGHFB.
Nothing like that will happen while Noel is alive. The AA album doesn't have the legendary status of, say, Smile for a film to be made. Apart from the members and lurkers of this forum (and AA fans, I would assume), not many people even remember the Noel/AA episode.
My bet is that in a few years (potentially, many) we'll get a few selected tracks on a HFB/CY reissue or some sort of rarities compilation. I don't think we'll get the whole album, particularly as a standalone release.
True, I'm sceptical as well, but then again we got the entire set of Mustique demos which most people would've though unlikely even just under a year ago. Also, if it's the same tracklisting as the original and their versions aren't as 'far-out' as Noel originally described (just a different perspective on the arrangements), then if everyone involved was willing to spend a couple of months finishing everything off maybe a decade down the line, then it would be a good parallel for disc 3 of the BHN reissue. Just to reiterate, still think it's very unlikely, but whilst the unfinished masters still exist, it's always possible.
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Post by andymorris on Feb 21, 2017 10:01:06 GMT -5
Everyone is different mate. Ever heard of Stockholm syndrome ? That's a weird one too. Sometimes there's behaviors you just cant explain. I really dont think Noel is a bad person, but he probably has a side to him that is shitty, just like the rest of us. No one is perfect, and Noel is far from being perfect. Andy, that's a very fair and balanced viewpoint you've got there, but please remember this is an Oasis forum so can you kindly keep it simple with either "Noel is a C" or "Noel is God" from now on? For reference, this is the "Noel is a C" thread. Thanks! Nole is a Cod ? Noel is a Gunt ? Also reading all his new "offerings" Gaz does seem to think highly of himself and his super work. I wont be balanced here and say he sounds like a total douchebag.
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Post by mossy on Feb 21, 2017 10:58:32 GMT -5
I love Noel and Liam but this is disappointing. Probably the one time I've been disappointed by Oasis. Two points on this. I want to see if people agree or disagree. I've said this in the past, but does anyone think it is a distinct possibility that Noel released the AA Version of AKA What A Life because it's 15 minutes of mostly garbage and he wanted fans to no longer desire the AA album? It temporarily worked for me. If the AA album was going to be like WAL remix, then no thanks. But hearing what they've done with Paul Weller and the Right Stuff, and reading about what Gaz said, I really do think the album would have been good. Do you agree? Also, I think Liam will never win the general public court of opinion vs Noel. But after this, if Liam comes out with a bold, modern, adventurous album that is halfway decent, he would win the court of public opinion among regular board members here vs Noel. Do you agree? I'm in the minority of people who like that remix :-) It's essentially just a massive extended outro. Could easily have been edited at the three minute point or so when the original song ends.
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Post by ninestonecowboy on Mar 14, 2017 15:23:32 GMT -5
From what i've heard about the sessions, the music was not quite as experimental as people expect. Noel was not willing to let loose really. It would definitely not going to end up like an album full of the AA remixes they did for Noel/Oasis as long as Noel was part of the decision making process, AA weren't really able to do their thing even though they tried which is why Noel said he felt he was making an album for them. If you're gonna get AA in though then there's no point restricting them too much or there's no point. At the end of the day, Noel is very straight forward with his own music. He might do something different here and there but it's still very much within a small frame. I think the AA album was ending up way outside of him comfort zone to release as his own album and he essentially bottled it. He said it was amazing at one point, then all of a sudden it was rubbish. I'm sure they could have worked on it and got it right if he really wanted to, there was obviously something good about it considering how highly he had been talking about it.
Probably worth remembering his solo career took off really quick and he was playing arena's pretty fast and selling a decent amount of records. He runs the label and everything is self funded so the fact the solo career was going that well off the back of the first album, he probably felt there was no point pumping money into the AA album too. He simply didn't need to, he was content. He was filling venues and selling records, and when Noel is running a business, that's more important to him than making an artistic statement. He just carried on with the usual cycle of making an album that will please his general audience enough, tour it, record another, tour it..ad infinitum....
I'd say it's somewhere in the middle of those things.
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Post by mossy on Mar 15, 2017 7:51:41 GMT -5
From what i've heard about the sessions, the music was not quite as experimental as people expect. Noel was not willing to let loose really. It would definitely not going to end up like an album full of the AA remixes they did for Noel/Oasis as long as Noel was part of the decision making process, AA weren't really able to do their thing even though they tried which is why Noel said he felt he was making an album for them. If you're gonna get AA in though then there's no point restricting them too much or there's no point. At the end of the day, Noel is very straight forward with his own music. He might do something different here and there but it's still very much within a small frame. I think the AA album was ending up way outside of him comfort zone to release as his own album and he essentially bottled it. He said it was amazing at one point, then all of a sudden it was rubbish. I'm sure they could have worked on it and got it right if he really wanted to, there was obviously something good about it considering how highly he had been talking about it. Probably worth remembering his solo career took off really quick and he was playing arena's pretty fast and selling a decent amount of records. He runs the label and everything is self funded so the fact the solo career was going that well off the back of the first album, he probably felt there was no point pumping money into the AA album too. He simply didn't need to, he was content. He was filling venues and selling records, and when Noel is running a business, that's more important to him than making an artistic statement. He just carried on with the usual cycle of making an album that will please his general audience enough, tour it, record another, tour it..ad infinitum.... I'd say it's somewhere in the middle of those things. He originally intended for Oasis to stay together and for this to be a stop-gap album during an Oasis hiatus. If Oasis hadn't split, it's much more likely he'd have taken the risk on this album, having that commercial juggernaut to fall back on. So really it's all Liam's fault we didn't get this album. Joke!!
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Post by matt on Mar 15, 2017 8:31:14 GMT -5
Noel - if he was innovative and forward thinking enough - should dump all the Amorphous Androgynous sessions on Soundcloud like Aphex Twin did, amongst other unreleased demos and such.
Doing such a stunt would gain far more publicity and intrigue than merely releasing it as a bonus CD for something - it throws it out to the public without the need for pre-release hype and wouldn't contain the baggage associated with critics. It bypasses all the intermediary channels, cuts out the middle men and goes straight from the artist to the listener. In a world of instant gratification, this is an innovative marketing model that would ensure Noel is part of the zeitgeist.
In a fantasy world, yes this would happen. But a guy who hires the likes of plodder extraordinaire Dave Sardy, shirks at anything inventive and conducts release strategies like it is still the mid 1990s is never going to be at the forefront of conversation, however much he is desperate.
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Post by The Escapist on Mar 15, 2017 8:45:06 GMT -5
Noel - if he was innovative and forward thinking enough - should dump all the Amorphous Androgynous sessions on Soundcloud like Aphex Twin did, amongst other unreleased demos and such. Doing such a stunt would gain far more publicity and intrigue than merely releasing it as a bonus CD for something - it throws it out to the public without the need for pre-release hype and wouldn't contain the baggage associated with critics. It bypasses all the intermediary channels, cuts out the middle men and goes straight from the artist to the listener. In a world of instant gratification, this is an innovative marketing model that would ensure Noel is part of the zeitgeist. In a fantasy world, yes this would happen. But a guy who hires the likes of plodder extraordinaire Dave Sardy, shirks at anything inventive and conducts release strategies like it is still the mid 1990s is never going to be at the forefront of conversation, however much he is desperate. I've been thinking this from day one. I still don't understand why he doesn't.
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Post by Gas Panic on Mar 15, 2017 9:02:56 GMT -5
Noel - if he was innovative and forward thinking enough - should dump all the Amorphous Androgynous sessions on Soundcloud like Aphex Twin did, amongst other unreleased demos and such. Doing such a stunt would gain far more publicity and intrigue than merely releasing it as a bonus CD for something - it throws it out to the public without the need for pre-release hype and wouldn't contain the baggage associated with critics. It bypasses all the intermediary channels, cuts out the middle men and goes straight from the artist to the listener. In a world of instant gratification, this is an innovative marketing model that would ensure Noel is part of the zeitgeist. In a fantasy world, yes this would happen. But a guy who hires the likes of plodder extraordinaire Dave Sardy, shirks at anything inventive and conducts release strategies like it is still the mid 1990s is never going to be at the forefront of conversation, however much he is desperate. I've been thinking this from day one. I still don't understand why he doesn't. You cant put a price on the dude status Noel would gain by doing this. It's never going to happen though is it? Noels had a complete lack of vision since 1998.
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Post by andymorris on Mar 15, 2017 14:53:32 GMT -5
I've been thinking this from day one. I still don't understand why he doesn't. You cant put a price on the dude status Noel would gain by doing this. It's never going to happen though is it? Noels had a complete lack of vision since 1998. Noel probably does lack vision, but on the other hand, he's got a big machine behind him. And he gotta pay all those people I highly doubt people would follow Noel if he dumped his songs on the internet as the only way to buy it. His fans are mostly in their 40s/30s and still buy records, so the traditionnal approach is actually not a bad one. Well, except the 5 months gap between the single and album. The fact that both his tours were successful and the records sold ok is a proof that the strategy is the good one. You may not like it, but for the past 6 years, NGHFB is probably as big as Oasis were at the end of their career. It was not a given in 2009. And he just cant put all of his back catalogue and demos for free on the web. It's gotta be sold with something else. Again, he's not a lone artist or producer, he's an entrepreneur investing in himself at each cycle and employing 30 people or something when there is a tour + people at the label. Be realistic people, Noel is a brand.
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Post by ninestonecowboy on Mar 15, 2017 22:26:03 GMT -5
Noel - if he was innovative and forward thinking enough - should dump all the Amorphous Androgynous sessions on Soundcloud like Aphex Twin did, amongst other unreleased demos and such. Doing such a stunt would gain far more publicity and intrigue than merely releasing it as a bonus CD for something - it throws it out to the public without the need for pre-release hype and wouldn't contain the baggage associated with critics. It bypasses all the intermediary channels, cuts out the middle men and goes straight from the artist to the listener. In a world of instant gratification, this is an innovative marketing model that would ensure Noel is part of the zeitgeist. In a fantasy world, yes this would happen. But a guy who hires the likes of plodder extraordinaire Dave Sardy, shirks at anything inventive and conducts release strategies like it is still the mid 1990s is never going to be at the forefront of conversation, however much he is desperate. I've been thinking this from day one. I still don't understand why he doesn't. Because Noel never actually finished his parts for it. That's part of the reason why AA said they'd never leak it either, it's unfinished because Noel didn't commit to finishing it and they needed further work from him and he pulled the plug on it. So for either side to leak it would be a bit stupid all round because it's incomplete anyway. Noel said he destroyed the only copy that existed which is a lie because i know for a fact Gaz has everything and could load it up on Pro Tools in a second.. It's still in his possession and unfinished. So Noel saying he heard the "finished" version and was underwhelmed is another lie when it wasn't finished or even mixed because they needed further input from him before it could be mixed. Gaz had worked almost 18 months on it and actually put money into it as he was told by Noel it was going to be a proper album and Noel had committed to it, but then pulled out at the home stretch basically. Understandable why AA seem a bit bitter about it. Especially as they had also been lied to by Noel with him telling them at first this was going to be his first solo record, while he was actually creating the 1st album as we know it on the side and never told them about it. They weren't even aware there was going to be 2 albums (the debut and the AA version) until that press conference announcing it... Noel had never mentioned it to them. So it wouldn't really benefit anybody to leak an unfinished piece of work. Unless they plan on finishing it, i think people need to just forget about it.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2017 10:47:24 GMT -5
Noel - if he was innovative and forward thinking enough - should dump all the Amorphous Androgynous sessions on Soundcloud like Aphex Twin did, amongst other unreleased demos and such. Doing such a stunt would gain far more publicity and intrigue than merely releasing it as a bonus CD for something - it throws it out to the public without the need for pre-release hype and wouldn't contain the baggage associated with critics. It bypasses all the intermediary channels, cuts out the middle men and goes straight from the artist to the listener. In a world of instant gratification, this is an innovative marketing model that would ensure Noel is part of the zeitgeist. In a fantasy world, yes this would happen. But a guy who hires the likes of plodder extraordinaire Dave Sardy, shirks at anything inventive and conducts release strategies like it is still the mid 1990s is never going to be at the forefront of conversation, however much he is desperate. I've been thinking this from day one. I still don't understand why he doesn't. Just dump it out there for download for a fiver and put out a press release saying "I think it's shit so I haven't released it properly, but somebody might like it". But tbf I think that ship has sailed now because it would reveal the truth of Gaz's words and the reality of the two HFB albums.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2017 11:01:07 GMT -5
I've been thinking this from day one. I still don't understand why he doesn't. You cant put a price on the dude status Noel would gain by doing this. It's never going to happen though is it? Noels had a complete lack of vision since 1998. He's always had a vision. You can see it in the notepads from the early 90s then hear it in the media narratives he's spun on everything. He's played his entire post-drugs career brilliantly. The problem with his vision is that it's had very little to do with music since Definitely Maybe. This album was dead the day he put his first gigs on sale and they sold more like Oasis than Beady Eye. That's when the vision changed from changing perceptions of his musical ability to becoming an icon based on past achievements. He won't risk where he is right now.
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Post by XTRMNTRSCREAM on Mar 16, 2017 18:57:03 GMT -5
If Sardy is such a horrible producer why did he work with James Murphy/LCD Soundsystem?
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Post by tomlivesforever on Mar 16, 2017 20:11:31 GMT -5
If Sardy is such a horrible producer why did he work with James Murphy/LCD Soundsystem? He's not a horrible producer. He's a scapegoat for Oasis fans looking to shift blame away from the band for albums they don't like.
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Post by tomlivesforever on Mar 16, 2017 20:17:14 GMT -5
You cant put a price on the dude status Noel would gain by doing this. It's never going to happen though is it? Noels had a complete lack of vision since 1998. He's always had a vision. You can see it in the notepads from the early 90s then hear it in the media narratives he's spun on everything. He's played his entire post-drugs career brilliantly. The problem with his vision is that it's had very little to do with music since Definitely Maybe. This album was dead the day he put his first gigs on sale and they sold more like Oasis than Beady Eye. That's when the vision changed from changing perceptions of his musical ability to becoming an icon based on past achievements. He won't risk where he is right now. And that is exactly why he'll never be in the top bracket of songwriters for me. The best don't approach their music like they that, they do what the fuck they want because they have earnt the right to do so by being brilliant. Noel so far is the shining example of someone resting on their laurels, that might change for the next record. I for one hope so. .
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Post by mossy on Sept 27, 2017 5:57:12 GMT -5
Just for fun, if Noel's new psychedelic/ experimental album is a success do people think it increases the chances of:
1. Noel actually finishing the AA album mixes and releasing it some day (on a HFB anniversary edition for example)
2. Noel working with the AA again?
Or was the CY writing credit debacle and stupidly low remix payment offer damaged the relationship beyond repair?
Seems to me David Holmes managed to achieve exactly what the AA were trying to do in getting Noel to write and try new things in the studio but the AA failed due to circumstances like the fact Noel already had an album written, personalities, record label risk aversion due to it being a debut album etc.
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Post by Gas Panic on Sept 27, 2017 6:33:01 GMT -5
Just for fun, if Noel's new psychedelic/ experimental album is a success do people think it increases the chances of: 1. Noel actually finishing the AA album mixes and releasing it some day (on a HFB anniversary edition for example) 2. Noel working with the AA again? Or was the CY writing credit debacle and stupidly low remix payment offer damaged the relationship beyond repair? Seems to me David Holmes managed to achieve exactly what the AA were trying to do in getting Noel to write and try new things in the studio but the AA failed due to circumstances like the fact Noel already had an album written, personalities, record label risk aversion due to it being a debut album etc. Something I'm wondering is given that this album seems very much like what Noel had in mind for the AA album anyway, how many ideas or even whole songs from the AA sessions have ended up on this new album? I could totally imagine Noel pretending to spontaneously come up with something in the studio to impress David Holmes, when in reality he's actually presenting a song or idea that the AA themselves may have even come up with. Noel is a total blagger as we know! I imagine Gaz is gagging to give it a listen.
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Post by akaidleroses on Sept 27, 2017 6:35:06 GMT -5
Just for fun, if Noel's new psychedelic/ experimental album is a success do people think it increases the chances of: 1. Noel actually finishing the AA album mixes and releasing it some day (on a HFB anniversary edition for example) 2. Noel working with the AA again? Or was the CY writing credit debacle and stupidly low remix payment offer damaged the relationship beyond repair? Seems to me David Holmes managed to achieve exactly what the AA were trying to do in getting Noel to write and try new things in the studio but the AA failed due to circumstances like the fact Noel already had an album written, personalities, record label risk aversion due to it being a debut album etc. I can't see Noel working with Gaz again I doubt it would be worth the inevitable trouble and we'd end up with fuck all music at the end of it all. I'm not really bothered if we ever hear these sessions and the whole saga leaves a bad taste in the mouth. If Noel had of been in the studio with a Neil Young, Dylan or a Springsteen I'd be pissed I'd never hear the tunes. We were probably all guilty of building it up in our minds imagining they would come up with something special but it's likely it would have been bells and whistles along with Noel's vocals given lots of sfx. Interesting on the first few listens but I'd probably have tired of it not long after. I heard somewhere Gaz is turning up at weddings turning water into wine but I can't confirm those rumours.
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