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Post by wozdareden on Feb 10, 2015 13:14:08 GMT -5
How old are you ? There are a shit load of players who are better AND who won everything. Some of them changed the way the game was played.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2015 13:16:30 GMT -5
OK then. Name 20 players better than Messi.
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Post by wozdareden on Feb 10, 2015 13:59:09 GMT -5
Pelé, Maradona, Socrates, Zico, Junior, Ronaldo (the one & only, not that portuguese fag), Cruijff, Henry, Zidane, Platini, Puskas, Di Stephano, Best, Eusebio, Beckenbauer, Yashin, Cantona and I don't have time to think about it but I didn't try to think about italians or germans... Matthaus etc...
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Post by WirralRiddler on Feb 10, 2015 14:37:14 GMT -5
Funny thread ! Messi is nowhere close to Pelé. Pelé is the greatest football player of all time. No doubt about it. Messi is not even in the top 20 of his own sport. Care to explain how you come to that conclusion? because its totally ridiculous...
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2015 14:38:14 GMT -5
Pelé, Maradona, Socrates, Zico, Junior, Ronaldo (the one & only, not that portuguese fag), Cruijff, Henry, Zidane, Platini, Puskas, Di Stephano, Best, Eusebio, Beckenbauer, Yashin, Cantona and I don't have time to think about it but I didn't try to think about italians or germans... Matthaus etc... To answer your original question, I am 19 years old. So I can't claim to have seen a lot of these players in their prime (neither can you if you're 33). I have however watched a lot of videos of them playing in World Cups and other major competitions. A lot of this is subjective so obviously opinions will differ. I'll agree that a few of these could be considered to be better than Messi - Pelé, Maradona, Zidane and Puskás. A lot of people say that because Messi has never won the World Cup, he cannot be considered to be truly great. Yet, many of the players on this list have also failed to win the World Cup and Messi has got a lot closer to winning it than they have. Lots of these players have not 'won everything' as you said. A couple are from the Brazil 1982 side that was knocked out in the first knockout round by Italy. That's the year after you were born, was it not? If so, you must have some memory. I'm not the biggest fan of Cristiano Ronaldo but I will concede that he is a fantastic player. His recent goal scoring record over the last few seasons, like Messi's, cannot be ignored. To dismiss him as a 'Portuguese fag' is ludicrous. Messi is better than Cantona whichever way you look at it. Henry was a great striker but has only scored a handful more goals than Messi in his entire career. Messi (who doesn't even play in an out and out striker's role) is only 27 and will outstrip him this year. Cruyff is undoubtedly one of the greatest players never to win the World Cup, like Messi. Very hard to compare the two as the game has changed dramatically in the last 40 years. Yashin is a goalkeeper. Impossible to compare the two. George Best could have been one of the true greats; we'll never know because his personal life had a detrimental effect on his playing career. Whether Messi is the best player of all time is debatable. Whether he is one of the greatest 20 players of all time is not up for debate. And being 33, you have as much experience with many of these players as I do.
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Post by wozdareden on Feb 10, 2015 15:36:29 GMT -5
Messi might be in the Top20 (but I don't agree) but he's definitely not in the Top10. Of course, he's not the best player of all time. And Cantona is The King, he was so magical. Untouchable for half a decade.
Ronaldo, Pelé, Maradona, Platini, Zidane, Cruyff, Beckenbauer, Di Stephano are better than Messi without any debate. That's 8. But for you my dear, I search for italians and the list is long : Rossi, Baggio, Zoff, Maldini, Baresi. And Muller, Matthaus, Kahn, Voller. They're all great players.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2015 15:56:43 GMT -5
Someone mentioned this earlier in the thread: the thing about players like Pelé, Di Stefano, Puskás and maybe even Cruyff is that the game has changed so much since the 50s and 60s that it's very difficult to compare the players. Would these players shine the way Messi is doing in the modern game? Would they be as fast or have the stamina? I don't know. Would Messi flourish if he played for the great Real Madrid team from the early sixties? Or would he be kicked off the park by the sheer physicality of the game at that time. Again, I don't know.
I posted earlier that my grandad, who has seen all these players in their prime, thinks Messi is the best player he's even seen. Again it's only an opinion but that's got to count for something.
As for Cantona, Messi has been magical since he broke into the Barcelona team regularly around seven years ago and has been in voted in the top three players in the world every year since, winning it four times in a row. Cantona was never voted as one of the top three in his 'magical' half-decade
Baggio has got to the same stage as Messi in the World Cup (runner-up) but Messi has already scored more goals than Baggio for both club and country.
It's also hard to compare defenders to attackers, though I do have both Beckenbauer and Maldini in my all time XI.
Oliver Kahn is a goalkeeper - no point in comparing.
I'm surprised you haven't mentioned Jairzinho at all.
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Post by wozdareden on Feb 11, 2015 2:09:07 GMT -5
Cantona was a black sheep. He was banned from France team. No way he couldn't have won that kind of trophy.
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Post by shinealight on Feb 11, 2015 4:07:22 GMT -5
Don ' t know...football was different 30 years ago. They ware better footballer but were worse athletes. I reckon these days you need to be a top athlete above all else.
Messi would be lost in 60ties 'cause he would not have the human growth hormone (steroids) they gave him to support his body musculature. I guess that would not be available in 60' .
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2015 6:01:23 GMT -5
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