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Post by The Chief on Oct 7, 2014 12:07:05 GMT -5
I just watched this and I noticed how hard Jeremy Stacey hits those drums! It's "If I Had a Gun" not metal! And the thing is, I thought it was just how he played but it's not! Look at this: Super soft on that. They couldn't afford proper mics for the drum kit?  |
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Post by The Milkman & The Riverman on Oct 7, 2014 12:10:21 GMT -5
I hope i think he's gone.
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Post by spud on Oct 7, 2014 12:41:55 GMT -5
It's because Noel "actually the best drummer in Oasis" Gallagher's drum arrangements were awful so he didn't really have a choice. He played it the same as it was on the record as Noel instructed.
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Post by maybedefinitely on Oct 7, 2014 12:43:27 GMT -5
This gives me a whole new appreciation for Chris Sharrock!
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Post by theyknowwhatimean on Oct 7, 2014 12:51:50 GMT -5
Because he's shite!!
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Post by spaneli on Oct 7, 2014 12:52:55 GMT -5
How Stacey drums in HFB's is not completely Stacey. Stacey is capable of more than Noel allows him to do. He's actually an accomplished jazz drummer. In the end, it's Noel's show and Noel fully allowed Stacey to drum like that and probably wanted it. Stacey isn't doing anything that Noel doesn't want him to do.
As the above comment says, I don't think Stacey has much choice in how or what he drums. I remember when Tim Smith came on here and expressly said that Noel had told him to just keep it simple. Only simple fills and riffs. I also believe that Tim Smith is a better guitarist than most give him credit for, but it's easy to blame Tim Smith and Stacey because that's who people are hearing and listening to and they're the hired hands. It's easy to call them shit and not look at Noel.
But in actuality, every creative decision, even what and how to play it live, comes down to Noel. It always has and always will. Still, few here are willing to blame Noel and would rather have Stacey and Tim Smith sacked for really only following orders. They're both fairly accomplished musicians and have played and toured with large acts. They aren't guys down the street that won the lottery. They were touring with big acts prior to being with Noel. Noel would just rather have the arrangements at this point be simple and the performances of those in the band reflect that.
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Post by The Milkman & The Riverman on Oct 7, 2014 14:03:02 GMT -5
How Stacey drums in HFB's is not completely Stacey. Stacey is capable of more than Noel allows him to do. He's actually an accomplished jazz drummer. In the end, it's Noel's show and Noel fully allowed Stacey to drum like that and probably wanted it. Stacey isn't doing anything that Noel doesn't want him to do. As the above comment says, I don't think Stacey has much choice in how or what he drums. I remember when Tim Smith came on here and expressly said that Noel had told him to just keep it simple. Only simple fills and riffs. I also believe that Tim Smith is a better guitarist than most give him credit for, but it's easy to blame Tim Smith and Stacey because that's who people are hearing and listening to and they're the hired hands. It's easy to call them shit and not look at Noel. But in actuality, every creative decision, even what and how to play it live, comes down to Noel. It always has and always will. Still, few here are willing to blame Noel and would rather have Stacey and Tim Smith sacked for really only following orders. They're both fairly accomplished musicians and have played and toured with large acts. They aren't guys down the street that won the lottery. They were touring with big acts prior to being with Noel. Noel would just rather have the arrangements at this point be simple and the performances of those in the band reflect that. Ok, Noel suggested basic drums patterns because his songs are quite simple so it's hard to play jazz drums around them, but how it's actually sounds in the end it's up to drummer and his technique. I'd say Stacey obviously is not a bad drummer, but maybe he wasn't the best choice for this album and tour. And honestly. I don't know the guy, but he doesn't look like he's enjoying it that much as well. |
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Post by The Chief on Oct 7, 2014 16:02:10 GMT -5
I fail to see how the simplicity of the arrangements and how hard he hits go together. Even with simple arrangements you don't have to hit that hard. I mean look at the kit, it's moving around on If I Had a Gun and you can actually see him having a hard time playing because he hits so hard.
I get the impression Noel had a certain sound in his head and the only way he found it was to get Jeremy to nearly break his drum heads. Because just the way he plays on that second song I posted shows he's able to play very well and smoothly.
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Post by Mean Mrs. Mustard on Oct 7, 2014 17:05:53 GMT -5
I'm sure Noel instructed Tony McCarroll too yet Alan White did a better job.
Not saying Jeremy is a bad drummer or anything, but maybe he's just not the right fit. That can happen right?
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Post by Rain on Oct 8, 2014 4:24:42 GMT -5
Jeremy Stacey is a fantastic drummer. I think NGHFB fans underestimate him and Tim Smith's abilities. I can tell you, Noel is in charge of structure and the sound. It's his songs and he wants them to serve the song.
Alan White is good with the sticks, but overall his tendinitis made him played soft. FM to his last days were dreadful playing compare to his earlier works.
Overall, NGHFB isn't much a rock band, but more a Adult Contemporary band. Jeremy Stacey doesn't hit hard as Dave Grohl, which Dave actually broken a base drum skin from hitting too hard.
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Post by jupi on Oct 8, 2014 4:40:19 GMT -5
Perhaps this could explain a bit... From Steve White's interview: PS: One of the conceptions that’s out there about Oasis is that for drummers, it should be pretty easy. I remember an interview with Zak Starkey a couple years ago after he’d left Oasis and he said his mates were giving him shit about it and saying “I could do that with one hand tied behind my back.” And he’s like, “Well, yeah, you could, but it’d sound awful.” Steve: Yeah. Go try, then. Any gig where a band get that big is not easy. That’s sort of bedroom drummers talk, basically. The songs are deceptively easy because they’re really well-crafted songs, but you’ve gotta play them properly. You’ve gotta play them with class, you’ve gotta play them with style, you’ve gotta hit the drums pretty hard. If it was all that easy to play, there’s no way that a band would have a career of 20-odd years. Just because something is technically not challenging is not to say that it’s easy. Sometimes less is more. --- I had one day of rehearsal with Oasis and learned most of the tunes on the way over. And that’s like you say, you listen to the tunes on the radio, and you’re like, “Ah yeah, that’s great,” and then when you actually start to write a cheat sheet out, it’s, “Oooh, shit. Hang on, that’s 7 bars. That’s not 8 bars. Oh, that changes it. Oh, I’ll have to think about that.” And all of the sudden, you’re really getting in there. I did something with a DJ called Mark Radcliffe a few years ago, where I had to teach him how to play in a live situation with Rufus Wainwright. And we did the song “Going To a Town.” And the first time we did it, Mark just banged through it, and he went, “Well, that’s pretty easy, innit?” And I said, “Yeah, but you’ve missed this, you’ve missed that, you’ve missed that bar that’s 2 bars …” And by the end of it, he’s going, “I’m shocked. I’m just shocked. I’m such a terrible drummer.” You know, it is easy to do these things kind of pubwise, but it’s hard to do them properly. |
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Post by The Chief on Oct 8, 2014 13:31:54 GMT -5
That was pretty interesting. So maybe it is by design. Maybe Noel likes the sound when their hit really hard.
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Post by matt on Oct 8, 2014 19:35:29 GMT -5
There's absolutely no problem with Jeremy Stacey's drumming on the new Ryan Adams album.
I suspect Noel should just allow his drummers to put in their own drum patterns. Problem is - does that mean the drummer gets a writing credit?
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Post by spaneli on Oct 8, 2014 21:02:43 GMT -5
There's absolutely no problem with Jeremy Stacey's drumming on the new Ryan Adams album.I suspect Noel should just allow his drummers to put in their own drum patterns. Problem is - does that mean the drummer gets a writing credit? Yep. He's always been a good drummer. Just like Tim Smith has always been a good guitarist, but Noel doesn't allow that much leeway for them to push the parts. The drummer wouldn't get a writing credit. He'd still get a musician credit. Take it like this, on Dig out your Soul Noel made a point to say that they were trading parts on each other's songs. Take I'm Outta Time. I would seriously doubt that Liam wrote every instrument's part. Just as I would doubt that Noel wrote every instrument part for everyone of his songs. But those songs still belong to them. I think it really just comes down to Noel hearing what he knows will work. Especially, considering he formed this project full of people he had rarely played with before (some not at all). Even say with Gem, there's a big difference between him playing Oasis songs in 2002 and him playing them on their last tour. You could tell that Noel had developed a trust with Gem, so much so that Noel allowed him to play around with the tone of the guitar on some of the songs and switching around some of the guitar parts. |
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Post by Rain on Oct 8, 2014 21:33:58 GMT -5
There's absolutely no problem with Jeremy Stacey's drumming on the new Ryan Adams album.I suspect Noel should just allow his drummers to put in their own drum patterns. Problem is - does that mean the drummer gets a writing credit? Yep. He's always been a good drummer. Just like Tim Smith has always been a good guitarist, but Noel doesn't allow that much leeway for them to push the parts. The drummer wouldn't get a writing credit. He'd still get a musician credit. Take it like this, on Dig out your Soul Noel made a point to say that they were trading parts on each other's songs. Take I'm Outta Time. I would seriously doubt that Liam wrote every instrument's part. Just as I would doubt that Noel wrote every instrument part for everyone of his songs. But those songs still belong to them. I think it really just comes down to Noel hearing what he knows will work. Especially, considering he formed this project full of people he had rarely played with before (some not at all). Even say with Gem, there's a big difference between him playing Oasis songs in 2002 and him playing them on their last tour. You could tell that Noel had developed a trust with Gem, so much so that Noel allowed him to play around with the tone of the guitar on some of the songs and switching around some of the guitar parts. seeing Liam on a drum kit be actually quite humorous. Noel can play drums little better than Tony McCarroll |
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Post by carlober on Oct 9, 2014 3:48:19 GMT -5
There's absolutely no problem with Jeremy Stacey's drumming on the new Ryan Adams album. I was actually thinking the same thing... Jeremy's drumming on Ryan Adams album is wonderful. He's indeed a good drummer... |
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Post by freddy838 on Oct 9, 2014 4:30:46 GMT -5
I'm surprised he didn't go with Terry Kirkbride like on that solo tour he did whilst still in Oasis. He played on a lot of demos and a couple of album tracks didnt he? His drumming sounded really good to my non-educated ears considering he only had a basic kit. Either way a bit more freedom in his live shows would be nice, and he should play a bit more lead guitar work.
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Post by The Chief on Oct 9, 2014 5:44:40 GMT -5
Yeah I'm also surprised he didn't go with Terry Kirkbride especially since he played on the AA versions of the songs.
As far as Liam is concerned I don't doubt he's written everything. Only he either did it with Gem's help (like it was described in The Ear Has No Memory) or he would just describe things like "I want to have a drum sound like Double Fantasy or Elvis (again like it was described in The Ear Has No Memory).
Concerning writing credits, Noel has been known, at least since 2000, to record very thorough demos. So I think that's why he's the only one getting writing credits. Obviously each musician will add its flavour to it but the barebone of it was written by Noel.
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Post by LlAM on Oct 9, 2014 11:25:18 GMT -5
If I Had A Gun, Broken Arrow and Little By Little were terrible. I'm surprised they passed Noels quality control.
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Post by start at the end on Oct 9, 2014 18:45:40 GMT -5
There's absolutely no problem with Jeremy Stacey's drumming on the new Ryan Adams album.I suspect Noel should just allow his drummers to put in their own drum patterns. Problem is - does that mean the drummer gets a writing credit? Yep. He's always been a good drummer. Just like Tim Smith has always been a good guitarist, but Noel doesn't allow that much leeway for them to push the parts. The drummer wouldn't get a writing credit. He'd still get a musician credit. Take it like this, on Dig out your Soul Noel made a point to say that they were trading parts on each other's songs. Take I'm Outta Time. I would seriously doubt that Liam wrote every instrument's part. Just as I would doubt that Noel wrote every instrument part for everyone of his songs. But those songs still belong to them. I think it really just comes down to Noel hearing what he knows will work. Especially, considering he formed this project full of people he had rarely played with before (some not at all). Even say with Gem, there's a big difference between him playing Oasis songs in 2002 and him playing them on their last tour. You could tell that Noel had developed a trust with Gem, so much so that Noel allowed him to play around with the tone of the guitar on some of the songs and switching around some of the guitar parts. The depths of insight on these boards never ceases to amaze me. Since we all KNOW Noel is a creativity totalitarian why waste half a dozen paragraphs of bandwidth explaining it? |
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Post by The Milkman & The Riverman on Oct 9, 2014 19:20:17 GMT -5
Ok, here is what i think but don't beat me for that. Maybe, just maybe. Noel was a strong control freak and chief in Oasis, but let's face it, it's not that hard when youre in a band with your younger brother and your mates who are not that much professional and they're grateful enough to be in the succesful band with you anyway. HFB of course it's his solo thing all the way, but maybe, just maybe, he in fact, turned out to be not that assertive in front of other musicians as we always thought he is ?
I mean you employ professional session musicians and they, whoever you are, have their own pride and experience in how the band should sound right and how to play their instruments. I think it was important for Noel to not make them see him as a fuckin' Hitler from the very beggining so maybe this HFB album and tour was actually (in terms of sound of course) in fact more democrative than any other Oasis record ? Maybe Noel wasn't in 100% satisfied with all the playing, but he just decided not to medle so much in situation when he alone is not that confident about being a frontman yet and he have to spend whole world tour with these guys? Better care about good atmosphere on the board, right ?
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Post by spaneli on Oct 9, 2014 22:52:50 GMT -5
Ok, here is what i think but don't beat me for that. Maybe, just maybe. Noel was a strong control freak and chief in Oasis, but let's face it, it's not that hard when youre in a band with your younger brother and your mates who are not that much professional and they're grateful enough to be in the succesful band with you anyway. HFB of course it's his solo thing all the way, but maybe, just maybe, he in fact, turned out to be not that assertive in front of other musicians as we always thought he is ? I mean you employ professional session musicians and they, whoever you are, have their own pride and experience in how the band should sound right and how to play their instruments. I think it was important for Noel to not make them see him as a fuckin' Hitler from the very beggining so maybe this HFB album and tour was actually (in terms of sound of course) in fact more democrative than any other Oasis record ? Maybe Noel wasn't in 100% satisfied with all the playing, but he just decided not to medle so much in situation when he alone is not that confident about being a frontman yet and he have to spend whole world tour with these guys? Better care about good atmosphere on the board, right ? Maybe. I know when I talked to Tim Smith he did say in particular that he had asked Noel about what he was looking for and if he could play around with some more intricate playing, but Noel told Tim Smith to just keep it simple. This is a message from him that I've kept private for sometime just because the tour was going on and I didn't want to put up much but this is what he said: "funny, i'm not a fan of guitar solos AT ALL..I really loathe them, except for Pete Townsend's. This song in particular has that classic Pink Floyd thing, that's what makes the female singers solo work. Noel asked me to come up with something based on what they sang, as he said he couldn't figure out what he would play as a solo, so we rehearsed it a few times, and what you see was my first stab at it. It's progressed a bit now, as more of a melodic thing, and understand, I can't go outside the realm of pretty basic solo licks in Noels world either,which is funny for both me and Jeremy, who is perhaps one of the worlds greatest jazz drummers. Again, this gig is purely about playing Noel's songs so he can establish himself as a solo artist. We all play exactly what he tells us to. Thanks for your honesty, and hope to see you down the road-there may be some other American stuff upcoming, but I'm not at liberty to say more...Tim" I'm pretty sure he's speaking about Let the Lord Shine a Light on me in this response |
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Post by Manualex on Oct 9, 2014 23:53:10 GMT -5
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Post by spaneli on Oct 10, 2014 0:13:13 GMT -5
Maybe, but I do believe that when he appeared on here he did specifically comment in the Let the Lord Shine a light on me thread. He started ranting about being blasted for one of the performances in South America if I remember right. That's why I jumped to that song.  |
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Nov 4, 2024 5:04:30 GMT -5
Nov 4, 2024 5:04:30 GMT -5