|
|
Post by tomlivesforever on Sept 15, 2014 12:29:44 GMT -5
Sorry Matt, but there is so much in there that I completely disagree with, particularly your points about nationalism. This isn't about nationalism, as I said in my original point in this thread, I've never been a nationalist and never will be. I'm voting YES as I simply want Scotland to take care of it's own affairs, I couldn't care less about flags, and passports, these things are trivial in the grand scheme of things. One thing for certain though - regardless of the result on Thursday, the Labour Party are finished in Scotland. You may not Globe but there's some pretty nasty stuff about now. Just saw a 'patriot or traitor' poster pop up on my news feed. But you can't whip up a nationalistic fervor like Alex has and not expect this to happen. On the other hand politically you can't blame him as its one of the most obvious ways to win the election. |
|
|
|
Post by globe on Sept 16, 2014 2:57:22 GMT -5
Sorry Matt, but there is so much in there that I completely disagree with, particularly your points about nationalism. This isn't about nationalism, as I said in my original point in this thread, I've never been a nationalist and never will be. I'm voting YES as I simply want Scotland to take care of it's own affairs, I couldn't care less about flags, and passports, these things are trivial in the grand scheme of things. One thing for certain though - regardless of the result on Thursday, the Labour Party are finished in Scotland. You may not Globe but there's some pretty nasty stuff about now. Just saw a 'patriot or traitor' poster pop up on my news feed. But you can't whip up a nationalistic fervor like Alex has and not expect this to happen. On the other hand politically you can't blame him as its one of the most obvious ways to win the election. Aye but I've seen plenty of nationalistic stuff coming from south of the border during all of this too. There are always going to be bampots on both sides of a debate like this. Honestly as somebody who lives in Scotland, I've not witnessed anything nasty or jingoistic, it's been a great debate and got people interested again. |
|
|
|
Post by manic on Sept 16, 2014 3:08:03 GMT -5
Anybody undecided should look up TTIP. That's what we're getting if we vote No. Say cheerio to the NHS.
|
|
|
|
Post by themanwithnoname on Sept 16, 2014 3:40:44 GMT -5
i only as of about a year ago discovered which countries make up the U.K, and only learnt that after manicsfan scolded me for not knowing. but to be fair to myself, i've asked numerous other americans - those that are educated with universities degrees and others who have actually visited the U.K. and none of them knew which countries make up the U.K. i'm guessing 8 out of 10 americans don't know the answer and maybe even 9 out of 10 don't know. and to further the American ignorance, didn't Scotland win their freedom hundreds of years ago, like what the movie Braveheart is based on? God bless. I went to college in Ohio for a bit and someone told me they were surprised I didn't speak French. I politely pointed out that the English language originated in England. Most Americans I met didn't even have a passport. Plenty hadn't even been out of their own state. I knew an Austrian guy who had a car with California plates and people would talk to him at traffic lights because they couldn't believe it. |
|
|
|
Post by Guy Fawkes on Sept 16, 2014 5:29:52 GMT -5
i only as of about a year ago discovered which countries make up the U.K, and only learnt that after manicsfan scolded me for not knowing. but to be fair to myself, i've asked numerous other americans - those that are educated with universities degrees and others who have actually visited the U.K. and none of them knew which countries make up the U.K. i'm guessing 8 out of 10 americans don't know the answer and maybe even 9 out of 10 don't know. and to further the American ignorance, didn't Scotland win their freedom hundreds of years ago, like what the movie Braveheart is based on? God bless. I went to college in Ohio for a bit and someone told me they were surprised I didn't speak French. I politely pointed out that the English language originated in England. Most Americans I met didn't even have a passport. Plenty hadn't even been out of their own state. I knew an Austrian guy who had a car with California plates and people would talk to him at traffic lights because they couldn't believe it. which school did you attend? i live in Ohio..... to be fair to some americans, anyway, America is a vast country.....like with the upcoming Ryder Cup, it's the U.S.A. vs. Europe - to look at it it seems kind of presumptuous that one country feels it can compete against a numbers of countries but America is, like i said, vast and has a large population so the dynamics of the Ryder Cup are fair. point being: America is large and is a lot take in. but yeah, there's a lot american ignorance, especially in the more rural areas. God bless. |
|
|
|
Post by themanwithnoname on Sept 16, 2014 5:36:30 GMT -5
I went to college in Ohio for a bit and someone told me they were surprised I didn't speak French. I politely pointed out that the English language originated in England. Most Americans I met didn't even have a passport. Plenty hadn't even been out of their own state. I knew an Austrian guy who had a car with California plates and people would talk to him at traffic lights because they couldn't believe it. which school did you attend? i live in Ohio..... to be fair to some americans, anyway, America is a vast country.....like with the upcoming Ryder Cup, it's the U.S.A. vs. Europe - to look at it it seems kind of presumptuous that one country feels it can compete against a numbers of countries but America is, like i said, vast and has a large population so the dynamics of the Ryder Cup are fair. point being: America is large and is a lot take in. but yeah, there's a lot american ignorance, especially in the more rural areas. God bless. Bowling Green |
|
|
|
Post by Guy Fawkes on Sept 16, 2014 5:44:32 GMT -5
which school did you attend? i live in Ohio..... to be fair to some americans, anyway, America is a vast country.....like with the upcoming Ryder Cup, it's the U.S.A. vs. Europe - to look at it it seems kind of presumptuous that one country feels it can compete against a numbers of countries but America is, like i said, vast and has a large population so the dynamics of the Ryder Cup are fair. point being: America is large and is a lot take in. but yeah, there's a lot american ignorance, especially in the more rural areas. God bless. Bowling Green yeah, Bowling Green's in a rural area; you're lucky you got out of there alive.... i live around Columbus, much more nice... God bless. |
|
|
|
Post by Elie De Beaufour 🐴 on Sept 16, 2014 6:10:36 GMT -5
I knew an Austrian guy who had a car with California plates and people would talk to him at traffic lights because they couldn't believe it. Don't confuse us (Australia) with Austria, Arnie is already doing so. Just read you went to Bowling Green, you are in (very good) company. Yep the man gracing both av and sig. |
|
|
|
Post by theyknowwhatimean on Sept 16, 2014 13:12:43 GMT -5
Ok I was waiting for a thread on this & have waited to comment. I'm Scottish and live in the capital of Scotland & I can tell you 1st hand the divide this is causing is unbelievable! The PR for both Yes & No camps is at a level never experienced before! It is everywhere. It has made people debate and talk about politics and the future more than ever before. Which is a good and a bad thing. Where I live every second house seems to have the word "Yes" in the window and there is overwhelming support for independence from the general public. It will be a very close call. So close infact that the big 3 parties where shitting themselves last week with a big "Better Together" push. They know how close it is & imo didn't take it seriously enough before. David Cameron even flew the St Andrews Cross outside Downing Street which I just felt was all a bit patronising & desperate. I personally think it should be a majority vote rule where it has to be at least 70% in favour, as it stands it's looking 50/50. This will only cause future devide within Scotland and isnt the fairest way to make a decision. It could end up a No vote for example 52-48! I can see pros and cons to both sides but personally I am STILL an undecided voter. I will vote though, this is very important decision. Plus all politicians are liars anyway. Pros- Scotland can be self suffucent with tourism, Whisky, fishing and of course Oil! (Of which there is lots!) - Having FULL control. Actually being able to decide the outcome of our own future & get the parties we vote for and not the South of Englands choice! (Did you know there is more people live in London than the whole of Scotland!) - Can it actually be any worse?! We already have a Parlament which we can easily transfer fiscal powers to - Getting rid of god Save The Queen & The Tories!- Our Freedom!! Cons - Uncertinty of pretty much every future outcome!.... The Army, our pensions, currencey, passports, jobs, EU membership and the NHS. - Having Salmond in charge - Loss of jobs and increase in income tax & NI - It all going tits up 10 years time and either joining the Euro or, even worse going back to England & saying sorry bout that! Will it really be the end of the Union Jack flag? Will going to a gig in Manchester for me mean being in a different country in the future? We will see in 6 days time! As Billy Connolly said (who is not voting at all) whatever happens "Scotland will get what it deserves" If you do leave, d'you reckon you could take the North of England with you? |
|
|
|
Post by Guy Fawkes on Sept 16, 2014 15:05:34 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by Guy Fawkes on Sept 18, 2014 7:55:10 GMT -5
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2014 8:45:11 GMT -5
Are there any early returns??? last I heard polls say to close , what's the vibe ? Which way is it trending ? When will we know final results ?
|
|
|
|
Post by Jim on Sept 18, 2014 9:00:01 GMT -5
Are there any early returns??? last I heard polls say to close , what's the vibe ? Which way is it trending ? When will we know final results ? Polling open till 10pm (UK or should this be Scots time?) tonight big man. The first results due around 2am, last of the regions around 6am (Friday) and final result around 7am although it will be pretty much known by about 4am. As of this morning it was 53% for No and 47% for Yes after taking out the undecided. Not a nice vibe at all in some areas, especially last couple of days. Hopefully after whatever happens the nastiness disappears. |
|
|
|
Post by jakob61907 on Sept 18, 2014 9:02:46 GMT -5
Are there any early returns??? last I heard polls say to close , what's the vibe ? Which way is it trending ? When will we know final results ? Polling open till 10pm (UK or should this be Scots time?) tonight big man. The first results due around 2am, last of the regions around 6am (Friday) and final result around 7am although it will be pretty much known by about 4am. As of this morning it was 53% for No and 47% for Yes after taking out the undecided. Not a nice vibe at all in some areas, especially last couple of days. Hopefully after whatever happens the nastiness disappears. If they haven't started counting votes yet how do they know its 53-47? Who takes these polls? and how many people are in it? I've always been suspicious of these sort of polls! |
|
|
|
Post by manic on Sept 18, 2014 9:05:14 GMT -5
Went in and voted Yes this morning. Now we wait.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2014 9:05:40 GMT -5
Are there any early returns??? last I heard polls say to close , what's the vibe ? Which way is it trending ? When will we know final results ? Polling open till 10pm (UK or should this be Scots time?) tonight big man. The first results due around 2am, last of the regions around 6am (Friday) and final result around 7am although it will be pretty much known by about 4am. As of this morning it was 53% for No and 47% for Yes after taking out the undecided. Not a nice vibe at all in some areas, especially last couple of days. Hopefully after whatever happens the nastiness disappears. Cheers jim. Keep me up to speed I hope whichever way U sway wins the day , you know your shit , neec to catch up mate been busy  pm soon |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2014 9:07:13 GMT -5
Polling open till 10pm (UK or should this be Scots time?) tonight big man. The first results due around 2am, last of the regions around 6am (Friday) and final result around 7am although it will be pretty much known by about 4am. As of this morning it was 53% for No and 47% for Yes after taking out the undecided. Not a nice vibe at all in some areas, especially last couple of days. Hopefully after whatever happens the nastiness disappears. If they haven't started counting votes yet how do they know its 53-47? Who takes these polls? and how many people are in it? I've always been suspicious of these sort of polls! I dont know in the USA the polls are very accurate tney sample like 500 to a thousand yet the numbers are always on point. If it's the same there I say it's accurate I used to be suspicious myself but there almost always on point. Weird |
|
|
|
Post by jakob61907 on Sept 18, 2014 9:08:27 GMT -5
If they haven't started counting votes yet how do they know its 53-47? Who takes these polls? and how many people are in it? I've always been suspicious of these sort of polls! I fpdont know in the USA the polls are very accurate tney sample like 500 to a thousand yet the numbers are always on point. If it's the same there I say it's accurate Yeah its the same here in Aus. This one is so close those polls have been up and down and swaying either way. Going to be close i reckon |
|
|
|
Post by Guy Fawkes on Sept 18, 2014 9:12:24 GMT -5
Polling open till 10pm (UK or should this be Scots time?) tonight big man. The first results due around 2am, last of the regions around 6am (Friday) and final result around 7am although it will be pretty much known by about 4am. As of this morning it was 53% for No and 47% for Yes after taking out the undecided. Not a nice vibe at all in some areas, especially last couple of days. Hopefully after whatever happens the nastiness disappears. If they haven't started counting votes yet how do they know its 53-47? Who takes these polls? and how many people are in it? I've always been suspicious of these sort of polls! the website from this link, www.fivethirtyeight.com, accurately predicted the last U.S. presidential election. i think the website perfectly predicted the presidential election, in fact. i'm not really in to politics, i assume researchers go around asking a certain number of people and expand those numbers on averages. spaneli or NYR would probably know the process better. God bless. |
|
|
|
Post by jakob61907 on Sept 18, 2014 9:16:19 GMT -5
If they haven't started counting votes yet how do they know its 53-47? Who takes these polls? and how many people are in it? I've always been suspicious of these sort of polls! the website from this link, www.fivethirtyeight.com, accurately predicted the last U.S. presidential election. i think the website perfectly predicted the presidential election, in fact. i'm not really in to politics, i assume researchers go around asking a certain number of people and expand those numbers on averages. spaneli or NYR would probably know the process better. God bless. Yeah looking on that website it says here that i found interesting: "Like any polls, these surveys could be wrong. There is no prior independence referendum in Scotland to model the numbers against. And Scotland lowered the voting age for the referendum to include 16- and 17-year-olds, which means their behavior is hard to predict." They dont poll people under 18 so that could seriously change the result |
|
|
|
Post by manic on Sept 18, 2014 9:17:28 GMT -5
I personally don't believe these polls, they just don't make sense when you talk to the people.
|
|
|
|
Post by Guy Fawkes on Sept 18, 2014 9:23:43 GMT -5
the website from this link, www.fivethirtyeight.com, accurately predicted the last U.S. presidential election. i think the website perfectly predicted the presidential election, in fact. i'm not really in to politics, i assume researchers go around asking a certain number of people and expand those numbers on averages. spaneli or NYR would probably know the process better. God bless. Yeah looking on that website it says here that i found interesting: "Like any polls, these surveys could be wrong. There is no prior independence referendum in Scotland to model the numbers against. And Scotland lowered the voting age for the referendum to include 16- and 17-year-olds, which means their behavior is hard to predict." They dont poll people under 18 so that could seriously change the result i personally don't think kids that young should be voting, wow - kids know next to nothing. fuck, i really don't start taking anyone seriously until they're about the age of 25. God bless. |
|
|
|
Post by jakob61907 on Sept 18, 2014 9:32:31 GMT -5
Yeah looking on that website it says here that i found interesting: "Like any polls, these surveys could be wrong. There is no prior independence referendum in Scotland to model the numbers against. And Scotland lowered the voting age for the referendum to include 16- and 17-year-olds, which means their behavior is hard to predict." They dont poll people under 18 so that could seriously change the result i personally don't think kids that young should be voting, wow - kids know next to nothing. fuck, i really don't start taking anyone seriously until they're about the age of 25. God bless. If you're not legally allowed to drink, gamble or go to war then you shouldn't really be allowed to vote. I don't know your opinion on this being an American but I never understood why you can't drink at 18 there? You're old enough to die in war but not allowed to have a drink at the end of the day? Seems rather odd |
|
|
|
Post by Guy Fawkes on Sept 18, 2014 10:41:29 GMT -5
i personally don't think kids that young should be voting, wow - kids know next to nothing. fuck, i really don't start taking anyone seriously until they're about the age of 25. God bless. If you're not legally allowed to drink, gamble or go to war then you shouldn't really be allowed to vote. I don't know your opinion on this being an American but I never understood why you can't drink at 18 there? You're old enough to die in war but not allowed to have a drink at the end of the day? Seems rather odd I thought American military personnel could drink at 18...maybe they could when the drinking age was 18 in the U.S., though. I'm ok with that idea, but the 21 year drinking limit for non-military citizens seems right for me, but I'm American, so I'm used to those laws. I know other countries drinking age is 18, and from talking to forum member Rita, Portugal's drinking age is 16 but citizens can't get their drivers' license until the age of 18, which is an interesting concept... I just know don't think people as young as 16 should be voting for something as serious as independence, but I'm guessing most of those kids will be voting like how their parents are, which could be good or bad.  I'm not informed enough on this particular issue to give my opinion, but like NYR, I'd probably go with a 'yes' vote, being an American and my country having won their independence, albeit in a different way. God bless. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2014 10:49:17 GMT -5
If you're not legally allowed to drink, gamble or go to war then you shouldn't really be allowed to vote. I don't know your opinion on this being an American but I never understood why you can't drink at 18 there? You're old enough to die in war but not allowed to have a drink at the end of the day? Seems rather odd I thought American military personnel could drink at 18...maybe they could when the drinking age was 18 in the U.S., though. I'm ok with that idea, but the 21 year drinking limit for non-military citizens seems right for me, but I'm American, so I'm used to those laws. I know other countries drinking age is 18, and from talking to forum member Rita, Portugal's drinking age is 16 but citizens can't get their drivers' license until the age of 18, which is an interesting concept... I just know don't think people as young as 16 should be voting for something as serious as independence, but I'm guessing most of those kids will be voting like how their parents are, which could be good or bad. I'm not informed enough on this particular issue to give my opinion, but like NYR, I'd probably go with a 'yes' vote, being an American and my country having won their independence, albeit in a different way. God bless. Why best friend carl is married to scot straight out of Glasgow , he even wears kilts now sorta bizzar but he's the most politically tuned in person I've ever known has literally hundreds of books on england ireland SCOTLAND politics and history , he and his Scottish wife think it will be to costly to leave , not in overall best interest , thsts as close to it as I get , whatever is best for Scotland im cool with its a beautiful country , if carl and his wife don't support , I tend to think there right , but im looking forward to end result either way |
|
Nov 4, 2024 5:04:30 GMT -5
Nov 4, 2024 5:04:30 GMT -5