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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2014 14:15:22 GMT -5
Not even close to being the same thing. A military exercise gone wrong is indeed a tragic accident. However, a plane being shot down intentionally (the only accident being it was the wrong plane) by pro-Russian separatists who are waging a proxy war funded by Putin's Kremlin, due to the annexation of Crimea months prior, all able to occur by the belligerents taking advantage of the currently weak Western powers, and an incredibly inactive United States, is by no means an accident that holds little significance. Rather, it holds a lot of significance. If Putin doesn't back down, and it looks like he won't, then the international community needs to get involved (as they should have done with Crimea in the first place). Right now we're entering a Cold War mentality. But if Putin continues this behavior, either directly or indirectly, and the west continues to appease and acquiesce to him, then we're marching very dangerously towards the circumstances that led to WWII where Hitler's annexation of the Sudetenland eventually escalated to an international problem, as Hitler continued his aggression and invaded Poland, and thus WWII. Obama is very much like Neville Chamberlain in this regard, he thinks negotiations and rhetoric will indeed sufficiently appease any adversary, and allow "Peace in our time." Chamberlain was wrong, and so is Obama. More needs to be done now, before things can get worse - which may very well, but significantly does not have to, include WWIII as a consequence. And, further, there are elements of WWI at play, too, with how quickly a regional event spilled over. WWIII may seem far fetched, and to some degree, it is. But add Israel, Hamas, Iran, et al to the list, AS WELL AS the crisis in Iraq, and the very unstable situations in both Libya and Syria, and you have all the key players and alliances in place. There's a loose thread that ignites all of them, let's hope that no one lights the consequential match. And even if this all plays out on Cold War minded terms, which is the most likely out come, it's a depressing outlook. For one, the Cold War remained chilled because of strong, or equally balanced at the very least, leaders who had mutual respect and fear for their adversarial counterparts. Putin doesn't see Obama as strong, he sees Obama as weak. And that's exactly a huge factor in why the world is in utter chaos right now, and why US - Russian relations aren't in our favor, nor do they hang in the balance, but rather tilt towards the former Soviet state. Unless Obama finally shows some strength and leadership, all of this bodes very badly. So no, this is nothing like an unfortunate military exercise gone wrong. i thought you were a fan of mutually assured destruction and if you think this works then you not gonna have a war. When are you going to thank the Russians for their pivotal role in winning WW2? Why you are a must follow .......so many forget ...the Russians list 20 million and basically wore the Germans out creating that 2 front war ..... Spot on
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on Jul 21, 2014 15:44:02 GMT -5
Not even close to being the same thing. A military exercise gone wrong is indeed a tragic accident. However, a plane being shot down intentionally (the only accident being it was the wrong plane) by pro-Russian separatists who are waging a proxy war funded by Putin's Kremlin, due to the annexation of Crimea months prior, all able to occur by the belligerents taking advantage of the currently weak Western powers, and an incredibly inactive United States, is by no means an accident that holds little significance. Rather, it holds a lot of significance. If Putin doesn't back down, and it looks like he won't, then the international community needs to get involved (as they should have done with Crimea in the first place). Right now we're entering a Cold War mentality. But if Putin continues this behavior, either directly or indirectly, and the west continues to appease and acquiesce to him, then we're marching very dangerously towards the circumstances that led to WWII where Hitler's annexation of the Sudetenland eventually escalated to an international problem, as Hitler continued his aggression and invaded Poland, and thus WWII. Obama is very much like Neville Chamberlain in this regard, he thinks negotiations and rhetoric will indeed sufficiently appease any adversary, and allow "Peace in our time." Chamberlain was wrong, and so is Obama. More needs to be done now, before things can get worse - which may very well, but significantly does not have to, include WWIII as a consequence. And, further, there are elements of WWI at play, too, with how quickly a regional event spilled over. WWIII may seem far fetched, and to some degree, it is. But add Israel, Hamas, Iran, et al to the list, AS WELL AS the crisis in Iraq, and the very unstable situations in both Libya and Syria, and you have all the key players and alliances in place. There's a loose thread that ignites all of them, let's hope that no one lights the consequential match. And even if this all plays out on Cold War minded terms, which is the most likely out come, it's a depressing outlook. For one, the Cold War remained chilled because of strong, or equally balanced at the very least, leaders who had mutual respect and fear for their adversarial counterparts. Putin doesn't see Obama as strong, he sees Obama as weak. And that's exactly a huge factor in why the world is in utter chaos right now, and why US - Russian relations aren't in our favor, nor do they hang in the balance, but rather tilt towards the former Soviet state. Unless Obama finally shows some strength and leadership, all of this bodes very badly. So no, this is nothing like an unfortunate military exercise gone wrong. i thought you were a fan of mutually assured destruction and if you think this works then you not gonna have a war. When are you going to thank the Russians for their pivotal role in winning WW2? The key word is "mutual". Putin doesn't fear Obama, which is exactly the problem.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2014 16:32:41 GMT -5
i thought you were a fan of mutually assured destruction and if you think this works then you not gonna have a war. When are you going to thank the Russians for their pivotal role in winning WW2? The key word is "mutual". Putin doesn't fear Obama, which is exactly the problem. The very first day he was elected I told my mom ...it's Brezhnev all over again , Putin is old school russian ,
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Post by globe on Jul 21, 2014 16:49:16 GMT -5
i thought you were a fan of mutually assured destruction and if you think this works then you not gonna have a war. When are you going to thank the Russians for their pivotal role in winning WW2? The key word is "mutual". Putin doesn't fear Obama, which is exactly the problem. And who do you think ex KGB colonel Putin fears like? Clown.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2014 17:08:35 GMT -5
The soviets were waiting for this ...so many idiots thought a free Russia was gonna make the world sing koombyah. fact is the soviets as a evil,empire unites the west , you liberals , young , might think im nuts globe I'm sure you do too ...but it's fact the world works better with a soviet us dissention
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2014 17:09:54 GMT -5
The soviets make being free a privilege ...and unites in fighting ...the genius of Putin
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2014 17:10:45 GMT -5
And nothing makes the world care more than watching CNN and demanding change ..... Think ..
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on Jul 21, 2014 23:40:55 GMT -5
The key word is "mutual". Putin doesn't fear Obama, which is exactly the problem. And who do you think ex KGB colonel Putin fears like? Clown. Quite the intellect, as always. You're probably still using the same technology from 2005, too. Sad. Luckily, you're the first person I will use this nifty "block" feature on. So from henceforth you don't exist.
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Post by globe on Jul 22, 2014 1:13:12 GMT -5
And who do you think ex KGB colonel Putin fears like? Clown. Quite the intellect, as always. You're probably still using the same technology from 2005, too. Sad. Luckily, you're the first person I will use this nifty "block" feature on. So from henceforth you don't exist. Eh? Are you back on the drink again?
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Post by mimmihopps on Jul 22, 2014 1:52:19 GMT -5
I'm not posting about politics here. All we want is that all the people who were taken their lives for no reason will be treated with respect. I'm not saying this just because most of them are from my country, but any of them could have been your boyfriend, girlfriend, wife, husband, children, parents, friends, neighbours.
Bring them back to home and their loved ones as soon as possible. Nobody deserved to die in this terrible way.
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Post by oasisserbia on Jul 22, 2014 5:16:39 GMT -5
Fuck Russia and fuck USA.
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Post by oasisserbia on Jul 22, 2014 5:19:37 GMT -5
Ukrainians, trust no one but yourself. Neither Russians nor Americans are there to help you.
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Post by jakob61907 on Jul 22, 2014 12:18:56 GMT -5
A lecturer at my universities three girls and dad died on that plane. Very sad world sometimes looking at this situation and the one in Israel. Me thinks the U.S would be there in a flash if there was money to be made. Not an expert by any means but this is what it seems like.
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Post by Sternumman on Jul 23, 2014 6:46:52 GMT -5
can we at least agree that everything's Obama's fault? God bless.
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Post by NYR on Jul 24, 2014 20:43:21 GMT -5
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Post by Mean Mrs. Mustard on Jul 28, 2014 9:50:13 GMT -5
I'm not posting about politics here. All we want is that all the people who were taken their lives for no reason will be treated with respect. I'm not saying this just because most of them are from my country, but any of them could have been your boyfriend, girlfriend, wife, husband, children, parents, friends, neighbours. Bring them back to home and their loved ones as soon as possible. Nobody deserved to die in this terrible way. This. It's such a horrible sight to see what they've done with the belongings of the victims and with the bodies. It makes me so angry to think of all this. All bodies are back now though, aren't they? Something needs to be done.
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on Jul 31, 2014 8:10:31 GMT -5
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Post by Bellboy on Jul 31, 2014 10:07:36 GMT -5
An interesting read. The Atlantic front cover with Lennon & McCartney is very cool too and almost quotes you - "How genius happens"
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Post by Mean Mrs. Mustard on Jul 31, 2014 18:06:26 GMT -5
Not reading it all, way too long a read for my sleepy tipsy eyes at 1 am.
This stuff is all over the internet though. Some people believe history is really repeating itself, including shit like the Titanic and stuff. That one sank in 1912, and in 2012 that Concordia ship sank. WWI started in 1914, so WWIII would be starting now. And there was a whole list of other events too. It's interesting, but it could be a mere coincidence.
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on Aug 1, 2014 6:34:47 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2014 8:15:49 GMT -5
when did you give up on mutually assured destruction ?
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on Aug 1, 2014 14:13:34 GMT -5
when did you give up on mutually assured destruction ? MAD no longer (fully/truly) applies in a post-Cold War world. Wrote a paper on this back in university,and actually just got done reading about the issues in a text book for pre-reading for my international relations course at Queen Mary University of London this fall. MAD is now very limited. There are Cold War parallels but the world order has shifted drastically through vast amounts of globalization over the last 20-30 years, which is why I view G W Bush as a revolutionary of sorts, despite the obvious blunders in policy execution. Non state actors, terrorists, and conspiracies between these bodies and nations states have significantly shifted the paradigms. In a bipolar world, MAD mad sense. In fact, the Cold War brought with it stability especially to Europe, without which World War III almost certainly would have occurred during that timespan instead. Of course, during the Cold War itself, no one saw it as a stable time, it was only after that this realization of balancing dual hegemonies proved beneficial. I'm now studying (or about to, officially, should I indeed get on that plane next month despite not being ready) the impact of the significant globalization movement, what it means in context with nations, and non state actors. Basically, there's now a need to understand this new and developing world order. Post-WWI wad a phase, post-WWII was a phase, the Cold War was a phase, and 9/11 marked the end of the post-Cold War phase. It's enthralling to understanding how all of these phases are related and linked, yet how the new emerging in trends differentiate so significantly thereby the need to understand the current parameters that have been establishing themselves based on the premises of everything that came prior makes it essential to understand the international structure, system, workings, and ultimately security and sustainability of the international system, It is very complexed and detailed, and I find it engrossing. Especially once you moved beyond partisanship. This is a theoretical field of study, one that has merits in arguments, but is not solely opinion oriented.
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