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Post by scott1 on Apr 2, 2014 13:24:22 GMT -5
Some may think I'm joking, but I genuinely believe Liam to be a fantastic melodist, it's just his lyrics that fall short of the mark.
Liam's songwriting has been roundly panned since it began really. But notice every review that ridicules the likes of Little James only seems to refer to the "plasticine/trampoline" thing. In short - they only criticise his lyrics.
Look beyond plasticine trampolines and all right now yeah yeah yeahs, and you find the melodies of his songs to be great. Little James has a great melody, as does Songbird, I'm Outta Time, Better Man etc. (I could mention them all to be honest)
Even on the least popular Liam tracks like Ain't Got Nothin' or The Meaning Of Soul, the melodies are what saves them - as it does with pretty much the whole lot of his songs. He has a good ear for them, I guess his years immersed in good music rubbed off on him.
Back in the present with Beady Eye, they've at least attempted to resolve the fact that Liam's lyrics don't often live up to their melodies - hence Liam contributing the melody to Flick Of The Finger, letting Gem and Andy do their spiritual "eyeball to eyeball" lyrics. The later in his career as a songwriter he gets, the better the melodies seem to get. Don't Brother Me has an absolutely brilliant melody, and Start Anew is also up there with it.
It's far too easy for the music press to snigger at his attempts to write "a proper song", by referring solely to the "hapless lyrics" or whatever. Bad lyrics do not make a bad song. There's some fantastic songs out there with ridiculous lyrics - a lot of early Oasis spring to mind.
But poor lyrics make it so easy for the press to slate the whole song - it's fashionable for any music publication at the cutting edge of current trends to brush Oasis into the corner in shame. The fact is, they know the melodies are there - but saying so would completely jeopardise their position as elitist music connoisseurs.
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Post by tomlivesforever on Apr 2, 2014 13:44:33 GMT -5
I like Liam's songs. His tunes are definitely the strongest part of his writing and I actually think his lack of musical understanding make him better.
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Post by LlAM on Apr 2, 2014 13:59:59 GMT -5
When he's good, he's really good, but unfortunately there are just too many duds to call him an overall great melodist.
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Post by scott1 on Apr 2, 2014 14:09:22 GMT -5
When he's good, he's really good, but unfortunately there are just too many duds to call him an overall great melodist. I suppose our standards weren't too high for him, hence the reason we actually like a lot of his songs. And I'd say he's a great melodist in the sense that it's the best thing about his whole songwriting. |
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Post by His Royal Noelness on Apr 2, 2014 14:45:50 GMT -5
I find them fleeting. Some are great when I first hear them but over time they lose their appeal. I ever get a Liam penned tune randomly stuck in my head like I do with other artists. I think if he had written more in his younger days he might have been a much better all round songwriter but I think he may have left it just a little too late.
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Post by The Milkman & The Riverman on Apr 2, 2014 16:57:56 GMT -5
He's a really good lyricist what is pretty ironic, i found his lyrics interestingly deep and serious I'm outta time, Guess God thinks I'm Abel, Boy With The Blues, Born on a different cloud..I think if only he had spent more time on writing and playing instruments in the past he could be better than Noel these days. Really intriguing subject that, Liam's writing.
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Post by Cast on Apr 2, 2014 16:59:50 GMT -5
I find them fleeting. Some are great when I first hear them but over time they lose their appeal. I ever get a Liam penned tune randomly stuck in my head like I do with other artists. I think if he had written more in his younger days he might have been a much better all round songwriter but I think he may have left it just a little too late. This. Honestly no offense to Liam but he got into the song writing game a little late. He basically achieved a lot before he started writing and it seems that he kinda just picked it up out of boredom. That can lead to some good songs but never really anything too special. I don't know if he has the hunger in him to really write a great song even now in Beady Eye. With Noel's songs (and other great songwriters in general) you can hear a longing and striving in a lot of their work. They start young usually with raw emotion and hopefully continue to expand and work on their craft. Rock n' roller's usually find a nice balance between this longing and craftsmanship in their mid-late twenties to their mid 30's. History is not really on Liam's side but here's to him proving it wrong. |
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Post by Willie T. Soke on Apr 2, 2014 17:52:18 GMT -5
to be fair, Liam was busy fucking side chicks during his formative years and he's still busy fucking side chicks...would explain the only small bursts of true songsmanship.
Thanks.
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Post by johnwesleyharding on Apr 2, 2014 19:36:37 GMT -5
Liam is the best consistent songwriter in Beady Eye and while he started slow, his tunes are great. He had several songs relegated to b-sides in the oasis days, but I Believe In All and Boy With The Blues are great. I always liked Meaning of Soul and Ain't Got Nothin' and never cared how similar they were. The Morning Son, Evil Eye and Wigwam are three of Beady Eye's strongest tracks and In The Bubble With A Bullet is my favorite (he wrote that one, right?). |
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rebus
Oasis Roadie
Posts: 425
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Post by rebus on Apr 2, 2014 20:52:25 GMT -5
He does write very singable songs. Not great songs, but singable, certainly.
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Post by Who Is Andy Bell? on Apr 3, 2014 0:05:27 GMT -5
I love the melodies to Songbird, Guess God Thinks I'm Abel, I'm Outta Time, The Morning Son and Start Anew.
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Post by xo0oo0ox on Apr 3, 2014 0:29:35 GMT -5
Even on the least popular Liam tracks like Ain't Got Nothin' or The Meaning Of Soul, the melodies are what saves them - as it does with pretty much the whole lot of his songs. He has a good ear for them, I guess his years immersed in good music rubbed off on him. The melodies of those songs are nearly non-existent  Anyway, IMO Liam's biggest weakness is song structure, not lyrics. Too many of his songs run out of ideas in the first 30 seconds. Sometimes he'll try to compensate for this by stitching unrelated song fragments together, with mixed results (Wigwam, In the Bubble with a Bullet--assuming he wrote that one, etc.). |
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Post by yeayeayeah on Apr 3, 2014 0:46:01 GMT -5
Liam is the best consistent songwriter in Beady Eye and while he started slow, his tunes are great. He had several songs relegated to b-sides in the oasis days, but I Believe In All and Boy With The Blues are great. I always liked Meaning of Soul and Ain't Got Nothin' and never cared how similar they were. The Morning Son, Evil Eye and Wigwam are three of Beady Eye's strongest tracks and In The Bubble With A Bullet is my favorite (he wrote that one, right?). I think that was Gem. He does have a good sense of melody he just needs to expand his songs to more than one or two sections and get someone else to write the lyrics. |
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Post by space75gr on Apr 3, 2014 3:47:28 GMT -5
definitely agree with the first post.
Liam has the ear and charisma to give us a great melodic tune and if you think that he wasnt a workaholic...songwriter, not even a songwriter for a long long time he s doin' more than fine.actually he s doing great. i love most of his tunes.sometimes his lyrics are a weak point but most of the times i love the way he s using simple words that send his tracks straight to my heart.
it would be great if we could see a N.Gallagher/L.Gallagher track...too much ego or what between them, whatever...but i m definitely sure that they could do magic things if they could work together...
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Post by bardes on Apr 3, 2014 6:52:57 GMT -5
He's a really good lyricist what is pretty ironic, i found his lyrics interestingly deep and serious I'm outta time, Guess God thinks I'm Abel, Boy With The Blues, Born on a different cloud..I think if only he had spent more time on writing and playing instruments in the past he could be better than Noel these days. Really intriguing subject that, Liam's writing.  |
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Post by themanwithnoname on Apr 3, 2014 9:17:19 GMT -5
They never really go anywhere though, do they? He's written a couple of catchy songs but he's yet to write a killer chorus you can't dislodge from your brain for weeks on end.
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Post by The Milkman & The Riverman on Apr 3, 2014 10:00:39 GMT -5
Funny thing that i just heard about from that Brothers thing written and read by Paul and Peggy Gallagher is that Liam used to play violin when he was a kid  |
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Post by The Invisible Sun on Apr 3, 2014 10:54:10 GMT -5
They never really go anywhere though, do they? He's written a couple of catchy songs but he's yet to write a killer chorus you can't dislodge from your brain for weeks on end. Wait, Liam wrote a chorus before? |
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Post by The Invisible Sun on Apr 3, 2014 11:00:16 GMT -5
I like Liam's tunes. He gets great ideas, but never completes them. He has to substitute 'ooos and ahhs and lalalas' or he has to combine ideas from other songs to give the illusion of being developed.
Sure they're nice album tracks, but I don't think they'd ever make for commercial, successful singles. But who knows? Maybe Liam will eventually kick out a an amazing song with an actual 'hook' chorus.
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Post by LlAM on Apr 3, 2014 11:40:27 GMT -5
He needs more middle 8's
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Post by space75gr on Apr 3, 2014 11:58:39 GMT -5
liam needs that, liam needs this... but somehow the best track on DOYS is "I m outta time"...  |
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Post by LlAM on Apr 3, 2014 12:06:52 GMT -5
liam needs that, liam needs this... but somehow the best track on DOYS is "I m outta time"... Even a blind pig can find an acorn, know what I mean? |
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Post by spaneli on Apr 3, 2014 13:38:48 GMT -5
liam needs that, liam needs this... but somehow the best track on DOYS is "I m outta time"... Bag it Up? Personally, that's the high of the album and then it's downhill from there with little peaks in-between. |
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Post by tomlivesforever on Apr 3, 2014 13:49:41 GMT -5
Shock of The Lightning for me. Best Oasis single for years when it was released.
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Post by spaneli on Apr 3, 2014 13:56:06 GMT -5
I find them fleeting. Some are great when I first hear them but over time they lose their appeal. I ever get a Liam penned tune randomly stuck in my head like I do with other artists. I think if he had written more in his younger days he might have been a much better all round songwriter but I think he may have left it just a little too late. This. Honestly no offense to Liam but he got into the song writing game a little late. He basically achieved a lot before he started writing and it seems that he kinda just picked it up out of boredom. That can lead to some good songs but never really anything too special. I don't know if he has the hunger in him to really write a great song even now in Beady Eye. With Noel's songs (and other great songwriters in general) you can hear a longing and striving in a lot of their work. They start young usually with raw emotion and hopefully continue to expand and work on their craft. Rock n' roller's usually find a nice balance between this longing and craftsmanship in their mid-late twenties to their mid 30's. History is not really on Liam's side but here's to him proving it wrong. Spot on. I don't think saying that he writes poor lyrics shows that that's his only weakness. I think quite the contrary. The fact that his melodies rarely survive having poor lyrics says much about the strength of the melodies themselves. If the melody is good enough it can survive a lot, such as poor production, mixing, or lyrics. In the Definitely Maybe article on the Live4ever ezine it's mentioned how some of the lyrics for stuff like Shakermaker and Digsey's Dinner are completely nonsensical. I don't think anyone would truly make the argument that those are truly great lyrics. They fit the songs, but do they do much else? Probably not. However, they survive even through shoddy production, mixing, and lyrics partly because the melodies are just that good. As much as Noel says that he writes things in five minutes, I think most people would find those statements to be lies. The initial spark or idea may have taken a bit of five minutes, but the actual crafting did not. That much is very apparent in many of Noel's best melodies. There are definitely the signs that those songs were crafted and painstakingly created over a decent period of time with rewrites, progressions, and regressions. Noel is truly a craftsman with his songs. That is not to say that Liam is not, but I do not believe it is to the same degree. The degrees seem to be the difference between songwriting being a craft/occupation for Noel, whereas it appears to be a hobby by which Liam takes his hand to from time to time. Noel's life revolves far more around the next song, the chase, the sparks, the glimpses of songwriting genius. Liam's life does not appear to revolve around the same to the same extent. I think that certainly shows in the yearning you described Cast. Noel yearns for something different than what Liam does. As Cast has said, no offense to Liam, but I don't think his greatest motivation musically is to write something truly special...that's more of Noel's realm and it shows. |
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