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Post by The Invisible Sun on Mar 26, 2019 8:53:23 GMT -5
People generally just don't want to pay outrageous prices for a damn t shirt or polo or anything. It's that simple. And if they are going to pay that high price tag, it'll be for a brand that's well established and widely known around the world.
Frankly, I am surprised it has lasted as long as it did. Especially with Amazon where you can get decent high quality clothes for half of the asking price of Pretty Green or any other luxury brand.
If Pretty Green wants to survive, they have to prioritize a cheaper product to appeal to most of the buying public. And then they can release the higher quality products in limited editions, so that they're not wasting materials and letting piles of clothes get eaten away by moths in a dusty warehouse. This would also create high demand, since the luxury products would be difficult to obtain and not always available.
-Slightly related:
I dropped $35 on a pair of shoes on Amazon that have turned out to be more durable and longer lasting than the name brand high quality counterpart which cost $80.
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Post by MONO on Mar 26, 2019 9:15:54 GMT -5
PG is in part responsible for the hostilities that led to the ending of Oasis... so it's just sad all the way around really. Only if you believe in Noel's conspiracy theory. If Pretty Green wants to survive, they have to prioritize a cheaper product to appeal to most of the buying public. That's what they've been doing in the past years. Didn't work. And then they can release the higher quality products in limited editions, so that they're not wasting materials and letting piles of clothes get eaten away by moths in a dusty warehouse. This would also create high demand, since the luxury products would be difficult to obtain and not always available. No one spends a huge pile of money on stuff from a brand that also caters to the masses, no matter how high the quality of a certain piece may be. The gap is just to huge. A brand has to chose a certain audience and it's not possible to please everyone. |
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Post by The Invisible Sun on Mar 26, 2019 9:42:07 GMT -5
PG is in part responsible for the hostilities that led to the ending of Oasis... so it's just sad all the way around really. Only if you believe in Noel's conspiracy theory. If Pretty Green wants to survive, they have to prioritize a cheaper product to appeal to most of the buying public. That's what they've been doing in the past years. Didn't work. And then they can release the higher quality products in limited editions, so that they're not wasting materials and letting piles of clothes get eaten away by moths in a dusty warehouse. This would also create high demand, since the luxury products would be difficult to obtain and not always available. No one spends a huge pile of money on stuff from a brand that also caters to the masses, no matter how high the quality of a certain piece may be. The gap is just to huge. A brand has to chose a certain audience and it's not possible to please everyone. No, they haven't been doing that. Just check their site. Their cheapest T-Shirt that isn't in outlet is $44, not even including shipping costs. That's INSANE.
Most of the buying public purchase T-shirts in the $12-$25 range. And there's plenty out there to choose from. Plenty in this range you can even customize to your own desires.
PG might have decreased the quality of the product, but they haven't adjusted the price to match the quality of the product. And THAT is what they have to do if they wish to survive. In other words, prioritize a line of t-shirts that start at $20. And equivalent fair prices for all of their other products too.
Nobody has to spend huge piles of money at once. They just have to have many people buying a single item or two. PG appeals to a very niche, mid to high income household. And obviously, they're not buying. That's why PG is struggling.
It's in their best interest then to appeal to the majority of the buying public instead and reserve the niche audience to limited releases only, at least until they have enough mass appeal, sales and stability to take more risks and produce higher amounts of luxury product.
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Post by 2nz on Mar 26, 2019 10:04:18 GMT -5
Only if you believe in Noel's conspiracy theory. That's what they've been doing in the past years. Didn't work. No one spends a huge pile of money on stuff from a brand that also caters to the masses, no matter how high the quality of a certain piece may be. The gap is just to huge. A brand has to chose a certain audience and it's not possible to please everyone. No, they haven't been doing that. Just check their site. Their cheapest T-Shirt that isn't in outlet is $44, not even including shipping costs. That's INSANE.
Most of the buying public purchase T-shirts in the $12-$25 range. And there's plenty out there to choose from. Plenty in this range you can even customize to your own desires.
PG might have decreased the quality of the product, but they haven't adjusted the price to match the quality of the product. And THAT is what they have to do if they wish to survive. In other words, prioritize a line of t-shirts that start at $20. And equivalent fair prices for all of their other products too.
Nobody has to spend huge piles of money at once. They just have to have many people buying a single item or two. PG appeals to a very niche, mid to high income household. And obviously, they're not buying. That's why PG is struggling.
It's in their best interest then to appeal to the majority of the buying public instead and reserve the niche audience to limited releases only, at least until they have enough mass appeal, sales and stability to take more risks and produce higher amounts of luxury product.
just because you don't buy t-shirts over $40 doesn't mean other people don't. Don't confuse your shopping habits with the buying public. Don't confuse mid range (in the case of PG, lower mid range) to high end brands with the general public. |
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Post by 2nz on Mar 26, 2019 10:07:43 GMT -5
I also think that their problems don't stem from people not buying them- it's the way they went about it. Having high cost stores when retail was dying on its arse was a silly move from a company who'd attracted funding quickly.
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Post by The Invisible Sun on Mar 26, 2019 10:14:38 GMT -5
No, they haven't been doing that. Just check their site. Their cheapest T-Shirt that isn't in outlet is $44, not even including shipping costs. That's INSANE.
Most of the buying public purchase T-shirts in the $12-$25 range. And there's plenty out there to choose from. Plenty in this range you can even customize to your own desires.
PG might have decreased the quality of the product, but they haven't adjusted the price to match the quality of the product. And THAT is what they have to do if they wish to survive. In other words, prioritize a line of t-shirts that start at $20. And equivalent fair prices for all of their other products too.
Nobody has to spend huge piles of money at once. They just have to have many people buying a single item or two. PG appeals to a very niche, mid to high income household. And obviously, they're not buying. That's why PG is struggling.
It's in their best interest then to appeal to the majority of the buying public instead and reserve the niche audience to limited releases only, at least until they have enough mass appeal, sales and stability to take more risks and produce higher amounts of luxury product.
just because you don't buy t-shirts over $40 doesn't mean other people don't. Don't confuse your shopping habits with the buying public. Don't confuse mid range (in the case of PG, lower mid range) to high end brands with the general public. Lol. I'm not confusing anything. Just take a look at Amazon. Look at what has the best ratings and generally, indicates the most sales. Look at the prices associated with some of the highest purchased products. It's really not complicated to figure out what people prefer to buy.
And then consider the fact that PG is dying. It's not dying because people are buying their product. Think about that. |
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Post by The Invisible Sun on Mar 26, 2019 10:16:54 GMT -5
I also think that their problems don't stem from people not buying them- it's the way they went about it. Having high cost stores when retail was dying on its arse was a silly move from a company who'd attracted funding quickly. No doubt a factor as well. High cost stores, high cost product, probably poor management, and obviously dismal marketing (the decision to not have Liam as the face is an example). |
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Post by Rolo on Mar 26, 2019 10:29:18 GMT -5
PG is in part responsible for the hostilities that led to the ending of Oasis... so it's just sad all the way around really. Which is ridiculous to be honest. |
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Post by bestwick8 on Mar 26, 2019 10:58:28 GMT -5
Look at the cost of a Stone Island or CP company t-shirt, they are $100 plus... People still go crazy for them.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2019 11:04:18 GMT -5
This ain't a fuckin' funeral. Seriously, it's definitely going to get bought. There will be a Pretty Green, but my fear is that it will become something like Pierre Cardin or Lonsdale and be horrible cheap Sports Direct rubbish.
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Post by MONO on Mar 26, 2019 11:11:16 GMT -5
No, they haven't been doing that. Just check their site. Their cheapest T-Shirt that isn't in outlet is $44, not even including shipping costs. That's INSANE. PG's regular prices don't matter. They've been in constant sale (between 25-75% off) most of the time in the past years. No one buys their stuff at full price anymore. Most of the buying public purchase T-shirts in the $12-$25 range. And there's plenty out there to choose from. Plenty in this range you can even customize to your own desires. That's not the audience a brand like PG targets. If it does, the brand image dies immediately. PG might have decreased the quality of the product, but they haven't adjusted the price to match the quality of the product. And THAT is what they have to do if they wish to survive. In other words, prioritize a line of t-shirts that start at $20. And equivalent fair prices for all of their other products too. Forget about your $20 shirt at PG. If you don't want to spend more, buy other stuff and be happy with it. no serious brand can offer these shirts Nobody has to spend huge piles of money at once. They just have to have many people buying a single item or two. PG appeals to a very niche, mid to high income household. And obviously, they're not buying. That's why PG is struggling. Perhaps you haven't. Many people do. It's in their best interest then to appeal to the majority of the buying public No, it's not. You don't seem to get the concept of fashion. instead and reserve the niche audience to limited releases only, at least until they have enough mass appeal, sales and stability to take more risks and produce higher amounts of luxury product. As soon as they start offering the $20 t-shirts you want, they can forget about what you call the luxury market. Lol. I'm not confusing anything. Just take a look at Amazon. Look at what has the best ratings and generally, indicates the most sales. Look at the prices associated with some of the highest purchased products. It's really not complicated to figure out what people prefer to buy. If you like made in china shirts from Amazon and believe in fake 5 star reviews: go and buy them. But don't expect a serious brand to offer that kind of rubbish. And then consider the fact that PG is dying. It's not dying because people are buying their product. Think about that. They never had a sales problem. They have a problem of sales at full price after they cut quality and a cost problem because of their retail stores. |
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Post by The Invisible Sun on Mar 26, 2019 11:15:14 GMT -5
Look at the cost of a Stone Island or CP company t-shirt, they are $100 plus... People still go crazy for them. 6 billion people on the planet. Of course there will be buyers. Doesn't mean those 6 billion trend towards that. They obviously do not.
We're discussing a failing business that isn't selling enough product to their own audience to justify their expenses. This is likely for numerous reasons, but certainly cost of product is a factor, especially if the product isn't in high demand, which it isn't anymore. It would then be prudent for the brand to expand to a broader audience and limit their less in demand product to reduce overall expenses, at the very least to pick up the slack in sales in their intended audience. At the moment, they're alienating millions of potential buyers by excluding lower priced varieties in their product line. For a strong business, this isn't a problem. And if that's the image you want to convey and you have enough sales to sustain it, then fantastic. But if you don't, then you might have to adapt to survive. If that means introducing a line of lower quality product for a more attractive price point to gather a larger audience, then so be it. At least the brand survives and can stabilize itself again to continue producing towards its intended audience AND the added bonus of having a larger general fanbase which may decide to purchase more premium varieties in the future if they really enjoy the brand.
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Post by The Invisible Sun on Mar 26, 2019 11:28:28 GMT -5
No, they haven't been doing that. Just check their site. Their cheapest T-Shirt that isn't in outlet is $44, not even including shipping costs. That's INSANE. PG's regular prices don't matter. They've been in constant sale (between 25-75% off) most of the time in the past years. No one buys their stuff at full price anymore. Most of the buying public purchase T-shirts in the $12-$25 range. And there's plenty out there to choose from. Plenty in this range you can even customize to your own desires. That's not the audience a brand like PG targets. If it does, the brand image dies immediately. PG might have decreased the quality of the product, but they haven't adjusted the price to match the quality of the product. And THAT is what they have to do if they wish to survive. In other words, prioritize a line of t-shirts that start at $20. And equivalent fair prices for all of their other products too. Forget about you $20 shirt at PG. If you don't want to spend more, buy other stuff and be happy with it. no serious brand can offer these shirts Nobody has to spend huge piles of money at once. They just have to have many people buying a single item or two. PG appeals to a very niche, mid to high income household. And obviously, they're not buying. That's why PG is struggling. Perhaps you haven't. Many people do. It's in their best interest then to appeal to the majority of the buying public No, it's not. You don't seem to get the concept of fashion. instead and reserve the niche audience to limited releases only, at least until they have enough mass appeal, sales and stability to take more risks and produce higher amounts of luxury product. As soon as they start offering the $20 t-shirts you want, they can forget about what you call the luxury market. Yeah, exactly. Nobody is buying at full price. There's a reason.
The brand is already dying. They don't have the luxury of choosing a target audience anymore.
Lol. I do buy other stuff and am happy with it. PG has not profited off my wallet. But they could. "No serious brand can offer these shirts." Sounds like an opinion to me. Got any evidence?
"No, it's not. You don't seem to get the concept of fashion." To the contrary, I might understand it a great deal more than you do. You seem to be caught up in price, as in price = fashion, while I am caught up in the actual look one is trying to achieve. One can achieve a fashionable style with lower cost product. Now, that may mean it's slightly less comfortable to wear and less durable with time, but anybody that buys cheap, knows this and expects this. The price point is merely a logical factor that decides the amount of an audience your business is going to include or exclude. If you have the luxury of choosing your audience with a sustainable business model, then be the business you want to be. They tried that. But that has not exactly worked out for PG after ten years. Which is why they are in the state they're now in. To survive, they may need to adapt with the times and offer a lower quality line alongside higher quality product. Nobody would be forcing a gun to your head to buy the lesser quality items. I mean, it's basic capitalism. This shouldn't even be debated.
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Post by MONO on Mar 26, 2019 11:51:45 GMT -5
Yeah, exactly. Nobody is buying at full price. There's a reason. Constant sales and quality drop. The brand is already dying. They don't have the luxury of choosing a target audience anymore. Every brand needs to do that. More sales and lower prices would only increase the problem. ]"No serious brand can offer these shirts." Sounds like an opinion to me. Got any evidence? How could they compete with standard china stuff that's made for the people who just want something to wear and don't care about design, quality or brand? It's simply not possible. To the contrary, I might understand it a great deal more than you do. Fasion for you = something to wear for the 6 billion people on the planet. LOL. You seem to be caught up in price, as in price = fashion, Wrong. How many times did I already mention the term quality in this thread? And we haven't even started to discuss the design. If you have the luxury of choosing your audience with a sustainable business model, then be the business you want to be. They tried that. But that has not exactly worked out for PG after ten years. Which is why they are in the state they're now in. Seems like you didn't exactly follow their journey. So why do you comment and pretend to know it better? To survive, they may need to adapt with the times and offer a lower quality line alongside higher quality product. Nobody would be forcing a gun to your head to buy the lesser quality items. I mean, it's basic capitalism. This shouldn't even be debated. Ever heard of Green Label and Black Label? |
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Post by The Invisible Sun on Mar 26, 2019 12:17:01 GMT -5
Yeah, exactly. Nobody is buying at full price. There's a reason. Constant sales and quality drop. The brand is already dying. They don't have the luxury of choosing a target audience anymore. Every brand needs to do that. More sales and lower prices would only increase the problem. ]"No serious brand can offer these shirts." Sounds like an opinion to me. Got any evidence? How could they compete with standard china stuff that's made for the poeple who just want something to wear and don't care about design, quality or brand. It's simply not possible. To the contrary, I might understand it a great deal more than you do. Fasion for you = something to wear for the 6 billion people on the planet. LOL. You seem to be caught up in price, as in price = fashion, Wrong. How many times did I already mention the term quality in this thread? And we haven't even started to discuss the design. If you have the luxury of choosing your audience with a sustainable business model, then be the business you want to be. They tried that. But that has not exactly worked out for PG after ten years. Which is why they are in the state they're now in. Seems like you didn't exactly follow their journey. So why do you comment and pretend to know it better? To survive, they may need to adapt with the times and offer a lower quality line alongside higher quality product. Nobody would be forcing a gun to your head to buy the lesser quality items. I mean, it's basic capitalism. This shouldn't even be debated. Ever heard of Green Label and Black Label? Okay, so to sum up, you're a fashion snob. What I am basically getting from you is, "I don't want one of my favorite brands to be viewed as more commercial, because I like the status I think the clothing gives me."
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Post by MONO on Mar 26, 2019 13:16:37 GMT -5
Okay, so to sum up, you're a fashion snob. What I am basically getting from you is, "I don't want one of my favorite brands to be viewed as more commercial, because I like the status I think the clothing gives me." If you call folks who want great design and quality and are willing to pay the price fashion snobs then that's what I am. And while you keep on hating, I keep on supporting John Smedley, Gloverall, Sunspel etc. No matter how many other people wear it as well. Have fun with your china shirts from Amazon. Maybe you can print a PG logo on it to feel better? |
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Post by The Invisible Sun on Mar 26, 2019 13:38:06 GMT -5
Okay, so to sum up, you're a fashion snob. What I am basically getting from you is, "I don't want one of my favorite brands to be viewed as more commercial, because I like the status I think the clothing gives me." If you call folks who want great design and quality and are willing to pay the price fashion snobs then that's what I am. And while you keep on hating, I keep on supporting John Smedley, Gloverall, Sunspel etc. No matter how many other people wear it as well. Have fun with your china shirts from Amazon. Maybe you can print a PG logo on it to feel better? That's not what makes you a fashion snob. For example, I'm not hating on your products, but you are hating on mine. It's clear that you find the notion of Pretty Green carrying a line of T's that sells for $20 is offensive to you. I find it incredibly odd that you or anyone would hold this opinion ... Unless you feel it would impact your image, which would be a very shallow thing to think. "I don't want to be associated with cheaper clothing!" |
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Post by MONO on Mar 26, 2019 13:57:22 GMT -5
You can be happy with your $20 china shirt from Amazon, no offence. There is just no connection with a sustainable business model for a fashion brand. The idea PG should try to compete with these companies is just naive. That's it.
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Post by The Invisible Sun on Mar 26, 2019 16:52:09 GMT -5
You can be happy with your $20 china shirt from Amazon, no offence. There is just no connection with a sustainable business model for a fashion brand. The idea PG should try to compete with these companies is just naive. That's it. T-shirt. Obviously other products would have to be more fairly priced as well. I wouldn't expect a normal shirt on PG to be priced at $20 for a cheaper line. But at $40? Certainly possible. The idea that you seem to think it either can't happen or that they can't compete is completely asinine. We're talking about a cheaper line of product with PG on the label designed to pick up the slack to allow themselves to climb out of whatever hole they've dug. If you think that can't happen, then I think it's simply because you don't want it to. I'm not the first to complain about their pricing and I won't be the last. I think there's plenty here who'd like to wear PG if there were cheaper offerings. And if they are here, they're also out there. There's a market for us and it's not being exploited. That's just bad business. |
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Post by daviesh on Mar 26, 2019 17:28:36 GMT -5
Honestly you cannot compare cheap t-shirts on Amazon to PG. Massive difference - brand, physical shops, advertisement, R&D, etc etc etc.
Its like comparing a high street shop to a market stall.
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Post by The Invisible Sun on Mar 26, 2019 19:22:18 GMT -5
Honestly you cannot compare cheap t-shirts on Amazon to PG. Massive difference - brand, physical shops, advertisement, R&D, etc etc etc. Its like comparing a high street shop to a market stall. They aren't being compared. It's a demonstration that it is possible to construct a t shirt and sell for profit at that price point which is the 'normal' price point of the average interested buyer. This market is massive and very popular. It's an untapped market by PG, one that I think would be very successful and very cheap on their part to pursue. Meaning, none of what you mentioned above is even relevant. It's already possible. PG are already making T-Shirts. It's well within their means of creation. All they need to do is purchase lower quality materials for the line to justify the lower price. They already have the designs. They already have the measurements. The work is already done. The only need to create lower quality alternatives of existing designs and put a little into marketing. Considering it only takes a few dollars to construct these lower quality T-shirts, that's a bit of profit if people like me are interested in having PG, but without having to pay the premium prices.
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Post by knownoname on Mar 26, 2019 22:42:31 GMT -5
Honestly you cannot compare cheap t-shirts on Amazon to PG. Massive difference - brand, physical shops, advertisement, R&D, etc etc etc. Its like comparing a high street shop to a market stall. They aren't being compared. It's a demonstration that it is possible to construct a t shirt and sell for profit at that price point which is the 'normal' price point of the average interested buyer. This market is massive and very popular. It's an untapped market by PG, one that I think would be very successful and very cheap on their part to pursue. Meaning, none of what you mentioned above is even relevant. It's already possible. PG are already making T-Shirts. It's well within their means of creation. All they need to do is purchase lower quality materials for the line to justify the lower price. They already have the designs. They already have the measurements. The work is already done. The only need to create lower quality alternatives of existing designs and put a little into marketing. Considering it only takes a few dollars to construct these lower quality T-shirts, that's a bit of profit if people like me are interested in having PG, but without having to pay the premium prices.
Interesting debate that has been going on so far - but can you name me any smaller fashion brand that has this diversified range of products as you claim PG could be successful if they did it? I had some marketing classes during my Master's at university and in general, if a brand wants to be successful, it needs a clear profile and target audience. This is why you wouldn't be successful offering at the low-cost range with cheap designs and cheap quality and have mid-ranged prices with better quality and better designs and STILL have a recognizable and clear brand image in the customer's conception. If PG tapped into the low-end market, it would destroy its image for good - it is very difficult to serve different price ranges. Look at car manufacturers. Usually you have them perceived as "cheap" or "average" or "luxury" - BMW doesn't offer cheap cars, because it would destroy their image and market. I recommend that you do some studying on branding and marketing theories, it will give you a better insight why PG should better not cater to the mass market (if it wants to retain its image): aytm.com/blog/pricing-strategies-and-brand-value-fundamentals-part-1/ |
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Post by MONO on Mar 27, 2019 2:57:34 GMT -5
They aren't being compared. Not? What about re-reading your postings again? LOL. It's a demonstration that it is possible to construct a t shirt and sell for profit at that price point which is the 'normal' price point of the average interested buyer. It's possible if you invest zero money in design, quality and marketing. Plus you let poor workers at the other end of the world work day and night for your t shirts and sell them in masses. And no this is not the normal price point of the average buyer interested in a fashion brand. It's just your price point. This market is massive and very popular. It's an untapped market by PG, Luckily and there are very good reasons. Ione that I think would be very successful and very cheap on their part to pursue. Meaning, none of what you mentioned above is even relevant. You mean none of your points are relevant. IIt's already possible. PG are already making T-Shirts. It's well within their means of creation. All they need to do is purchase lower quality materials for the line to justify the lower price. They already have the designs. They already have the measurements. The work is already done. The only need to create lower quality alternatives of existing designs and put a little into marketing. Considering it only takes a few dollars to construct these lower quality T-shirts, that's a bit of profit if people like me are interested in having PG, but without having to pay the premium prices. People have been complaining for years that PG's quality dropped and you want them to get even worse? Sounds like a perfect plan. They should hire you as an adviser  |
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Post by oasisserbia on Mar 27, 2019 3:40:48 GMT -5
I´m wearing $3 t shirt and it´s fucking great.
Thanks.
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Post by MONO on Mar 27, 2019 4:19:22 GMT -5
But that's because of you and not because of the tshirt  |
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Nov 4, 2024 5:04:30 GMT -5