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Post by RocketMan on Oct 17, 2011 15:58:31 GMT -5
you americans are the stupiest citizens in the world. obama is the best thing for your country. just give him more time. it's not that easy to fix all the shit that bush did Shows you have no idea how Obama has been working on destroying the very fabric of America since he was elected and pushed hasty decisions in order to push his doctrines... time girl, time. you can't change your government every 4 years and destroy good ideas from the former administration. some reforms needs to grow over 10 years. in germany the chancellor brought an unpopular reform on the way in 2004 and he was deselected because of this. but now the german economy and labor market benefits through this reform. as i said, you can't repair wrong decisions in 8 bush years in just 3 years. obama has good approaches, and he is probably the best president in your country for a long time. i just can't understand all this hate. i understand that your country is impatient but your current situation is not obamas fault |
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on Oct 18, 2011 8:28:41 GMT -5
Shows you have no idea how Obama has been working on destroying the very fabric of America since he was elected and pushed hasty decisions in order to push his doctrines... time girl, time. you can't change your government every 4 years and destroy good ideas from the former administration. some reforms needs to grow over 10 years. in germany the chancellor brought an unpopular reform on the way in 2004 and he was deselected because of this. but now the german economy and labor market benefits through this reform. as i said, you can't repair wrong decisions in 8 bush years in just 3 years. obama has good approaches, and he is probably the best president in your country for a long time. i just can't understand all this hate. i understand that your country is impatient but your current situation is not obamas fault |
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Post by RocketMan on Oct 18, 2011 9:07:43 GMT -5
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on Oct 18, 2011 10:03:06 GMT -5
Bush invested the most money in war and defense? FYI: The two wars were actually cheap, and hardly expensive at all.....And Obama has continued both, has expanded Afghanistan, and brought frivolous action against Libya. Capitalism will destroy the country? FYI: The Soviet Union collapsed and communism failed So many people living without healthcare? FYI: It's less than 20%, and many of those include illegal immigrants as well as the youth who deem themselves to be invincible and elect to not purchase health insurance. Obama fiddled with his healthcare initiative while the United States' economy burned. The republicans are working against every fucking reform by obama? FYI: Obama had 2 years of complete Democratic control. He failed to pass a budget then, and then tried to play politics himself once the GOP took over the House. Bohener produced many plans that Obama rejected, and Obama didn't produce any himself. As for the current job bill, Obama couldn't even get the Democratic Senate to pass it! For all of Bush's faults, at least he could lead. Obama is not a leader. He's way in over his head. He has had too many moments of inaction or delayed action, and thinks "leading from behind" is a good attribute, when it's clearly not. Obama simply wasn't up to the task of being President. 45.7% of the electorate knew that in 2008, now ~60% have come to that realization. |
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Post by RocketMan on Oct 18, 2011 10:36:54 GMT -5
Bush invested the most money in war and defense? FYI: The two wars were actually cheap, and hardly expensive at all.....And Obama has continued both, has expanded Afghanistan, and brought frivolous action against Libya. Capitalism will destroy the country? FYI: The Soviet Union collapsed and communism failed So many people living without healthcare? FYI: It's less than 20%, and many of those include illegal immigrants as well as the youth who deem themselves to be invincible and elect to not purchase health insurance. Obama fiddled with his healthcare initiative while the United States' economy burned. The republicans are working against every fucking reform by obama? FYI: Obama had 2 years of complete Democratic control. He failed to pass a budget then, and then tried to play politics himself once the GOP took over the House. Bohener produced many plans that Obama rejected, and Obama didn't produce any himself. As for the current job bill, Obama couldn't even get the Democratic Senate to pass it! For all of Bush's faults, at least he could lead. Obama is not a leader. He's way in over his head. He has had too many moments of inaction or delayed action, and thinks "leading from behind" is a good attribute, when it's clearly not. Obama simply wasn't up to the task of being President. 45.7% of the electorate knew that in 2008, now ~60% have come to that realization. i didn' say you should change your system. i just said that a couple of ideas the communism had are quiet good and not as evil as most of the americans think. the wars weren't that expensive? come on. look at my link. those two wars were totally unnecessary and expensive. i understand that your goverment needed to do something after 9/11, but you left a mess in iraq, like you left a mess in afghanistan. and it's not surprising that obama didn't left both country as early as he used to say. if he had he would had left two broken countrys. you can't compare them two the intervention in libya. sure bush was a leader, but look were your country is know. in two wars for nothing then oil i guess. he left a destroyed economy and obama is the one who must handle all the crap. and about communism failed. sure it did. but capitalism in it's actual way is about to fail too. i'm not a communist but communsim was never implemented right. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2011 11:29:42 GMT -5
i didn' say you should change your system. i just said that a couple of ideas the communism had are quiet good and not as evil as most of the americans think. communism is an awful idea and on top of that it is unamerican |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2011 12:48:13 GMT -5
i would love to see ron paul as president as i would imagine he wouldn't do anything as he thinks anything done by the federal government is inteffereing.
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Post by caro on Oct 18, 2011 19:46:54 GMT -5
Shows you have no idea how Obama has been working on destroying the very fabric of America since he was elected and pushed hasty decisions in order to push his doctrines... time girl, time. you can't change your government every 4 years and destroy good ideas from the former administration. some reforms needs to grow over 10 years. in germany the chancellor brought an unpopular reform on the way in 2004 and he was deselected because of this. but now the german economy and labor market benefits through this reform. as i said, you can't repair wrong decisions in 8 bush years in just 3 years. obama has good approaches, and he is probably the best president in your country for a long time. i just can't understand all this hate. i understand that your country is impatient but your current situation is not obamas fault So if moving to the US taught me something, it is that Bush was not as bad as he is viewed in Europe and actually did some good. Everybody seems to judge him on the war in Iraq, which I was very much against. A lot of what we see and understand in Europe is what happens on an international point of view but we are very uneducated on what happens domestically. Same goes for Obama. Obama pushed for a stimulus almost right after the election that ended up having very little effect and being more debt than all the US president put together created... This is NOT good. It was forced on us, no one was able to actually see what was in it... hundreds and hundreds of pages... the men and women who voted for it didn't have a clue of what was in it. Some of it was good, a lot of it bad. This was an arrogant and irresponsible thing to do... Now we are seeing the consequences... HUGE debt to China, the country being downgraded from a AAA to a AA rating... The Solyndra scandal and so on and so on... Make no mistake, Obama is pushing his agenda and campaigning for 2012 every second of the day. Like live4evr said, he had democratic control and in spite of it could not pass his bills... His own party is distancing itself from him. Hillary is waiting for her time, I'm telling you! His healthcare bill was declared unconstitutional. It does not get much worse than that. Regardless of the situation he inherited (this is another debate), he has to take responsibility and now this is his mess. Nothing he did even improved the situation. I am not saying that everything he did is wrong but for the most part it is. don't get me started on what he handles illegal immigration (not) or uses communities like the gay community to get ahead and never coming through for them. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2011 22:13:52 GMT -5
How is Ron Paul a choice here?
NL4E, surely you can see that he is not Republican regardless of what he claims to be. The fact that anyone supports him is mind-boggling really. Madness it all is.
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on Oct 19, 2011 8:18:53 GMT -5
How is Ron Paul a choice here? NL4E, surely you can see that he is not Republican regardless of what he claims to be. The fact that anyone supports him is mind-boggling really. Madness it all is. Ron Paul is listed because he's a Republican candidate running for the party's nomination...... Ron Paul is incredibly smart, but there are only a select few things I agree with him about. His policies, for the most part, do not make sense in the world we live in. My vote is still heading to Mittens. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2011 11:59:13 GMT -5
How is Ron Paul a choice here? NL4E, surely you can see that he is not Republican regardless of what he claims to be. The fact that anyone supports him is mind-boggling really. Madness it all is. Ron Paul is listed because he's a Republican candidate running for the party's nomination...... Ron Paul is incredibly smart, but there are only a select few things I agree with him about. His policies, for the most part, do not make sense in the world we live in. My vote is still heading to Mittens. Ron Paul is interesting but like you say most of what he says wouldn't work in the world as it currently is, i have only seen 2 of the debates and they haven't been good at integrating him i would like to know what some of his opponents make of his principles. |
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Post by lionsden® on Oct 19, 2011 22:19:14 GMT -5
I'm sick of all of them. Republican or Democrat.
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Post by manualex on Oct 19, 2011 22:47:39 GMT -5
I'm sick of all of them. Republican or Democrat. What are the chances of getting a indie president? |
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Post by warren on Oct 21, 2011 19:28:14 GMT -5
Slim to none
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Post by caro on Oct 24, 2011 22:50:21 GMT -5
How is Ron Paul a choice here? NL4E, surely you can see that he is not Republican regardless of what he claims to be. The fact that anyone supports him is mind-boggling really. Madness it all is. Ron Paul is listed because he's a Republican candidate running for the party's nomination...... Ron Paul is incredibly smart, but there are only a select few things I agree with him about. His policies, for the most part, do not make sense in the world we live in. My vote is still heading to Mittens. Mittens is a cat's name ;D I guess I shouldn't torture myself with that since I won't be able to vote! ;D But getting rid of Obama is going to be a big pain out of my b***  |
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Post by Rifles on Oct 25, 2011 9:12:40 GMT -5
So if moving to the US taught me something, it is that Bush was not as bad as he is viewed in Europe and actually did some good. Everybody seems to judge him on the war in Iraq, which I was very much against. A lot of what we see and understand in Europe is what happens on an international point of view but we are very uneducated on what happens domestically. Same goes for Obama. Obama pushed for a stimulus almost right after the election that ended up having very little effect and being more debt than all the US president put together created... This is NOT good. It was forced on us, no one was able to actually see what was in it... hundreds and hundreds of pages... the men and women who voted for it didn't have a clue of what was in it. Some of it was good, a lot of it bad. This was an arrogant and irresponsible thing to do... Now we are seeing the consequences... HUGE debt to China, the country being downgraded from a AAA to a AA rating... The Solyndra scandal and so on and so on... Ha! Someone's been watching some Fox News! I need to preface this post with the reality that I know every bit of this will go in one ear and out the other AND I know Obama renewed a lot of these policies. My point is not to build Obama up, but show that Bush was a bad President and he is very much one of the main reasons the country is so shit at the moment. So you think Bush actually did a good job as President and Obama has been the devil? Obama has virtually done nothing since taking office except force the new health care bill down everyone's throats and dig the debt hole deeper, BUT let us not forget who fucked us for 8 years before that! What a great selective memory we all have here. Let's see...who is the doofus that took 9/11 as an opportunity to hit up the middle east and go "oh hey everyone, let's invade Iraq even though they had next to nothing to do with the tragedy you're all so proudly sacrificing your life for! What's that? Afghanistan - where the terrorists are based? Nah, Iraq is where it's at you guys, let's go!" -- Let's conveniently forget a BIG part of the reason our debt is out of control is because we're stuck in this shithole war that's cost us BILLIONS of dollars and THOUSANDS of American lives, not to mention all the innocent people killed in the countries we've been bombing the bejeezes out of. We'll just sweep this under the rug... Big Bad Obama pushed the stimulus bill through and it has SO many pages, oh no! So many pages to read. Bush wouldn't possibly....oh wait, the Patriot Act, that bigass bill they printed in the middle of the night that essentially waives all of our rights if we're suspected of being a terrorist. Guess we kind of conveniently forgot about that little tidbit too. And No Child Left Behind...ahhhh where do we start with this little shit stain? Let's try to better fund the schools by forcing the teachers to teach some shitty standardized tests and turn all our children into zombies! Another winner! And when it comes to disaster relief and response...come on people. When he's told of the 9/11 attacks, Bush sits there in a classroom because he doesn't want to startle the children?! Really?! And what about Katrina? I mean REALLY?! It came out later that he basically appointed his unqualified pals to high ranking positions in various government agencies. How was this a good guy?! Just because you're a Republican doesn't mean you have to blindly follow everything they do. If someone fucks up, they fuck up and you should have the un-brainwashed mental acuity to recognize it and call them out on it, not blame it on the new guy cos he's a Democrat. The ENTIRE political/govt system is broken right now. It is not 1 person's fault. It's EVERYONE'S fault and nothing will change no matter who is in office as long as things continue on this path. |
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on Oct 25, 2011 10:16:39 GMT -5
Nonsense.
Everyone agreed at the time that Saddam had to go. Al Gore and Clinton even tried to use a bit of force in the 1990s with cruise missiles. 9/11 wasn't the reason, but it provided the rationale and opportunity. But, unlike Libya, Bush's war in Iraq was actually legal, supported by more of the international community, and actually had viable national interests. And while Saddam didn't cause 911, Iraq became the battle field for Al-Qaeda. Al-Qaeda immigrated to Iraq, and once that happened Iraq became an essential battle field for the War on Terror. Suffice it to say, we've been successful there. And to use an Obama line "it could have been much worse." Also, again, the war has been pretty cheap comparatively speaking.....
The Patriot Act? You really think your argument is strong regarding this? Really?....We just came out of the worst attack on US soil ever. 3,000 innocent people just died. And the stunning realization of all this was that it was that it could have been prevented with better policies and Homeland Security. It's because, and not in-spite of, the Patriot Act for why terrorists have failed in the last 10 years, and believe me, they have tried. Warrantless overseas wire tapping has proved essential, amongst other policies. Oh, and unlike the healthcare bill, The Patriot Act was supported on a bi-partisan basis, Americans deemed it necessary, oh and it was read before it even passed! What would you have done following 9/11? Nothing? Exactly. Something had to be done. Something was done. Props to GWB. And, as you have already pointed out, Obama has continued almost all of those policy tools after realizing how essential they truly are.
And while we're on 9/11, you really criticize Bush for staying a few minutes in the classroom? I wasn't going to respond to your post until I read that paragraph, as it really pissed me off. First and foremost, he's collecting his thoughts, and secondly he doesn't want to scare the kids by acting brashly at the news. Bush remained composed. He couldn't really do anything himself in those seconds, anyway, and he did authorize US military jets to shoot down possible passenger planes. In fact, Bush wanted to go back to DC for the day because he thought it would be important for him to showcase strength. Obviously he was refused this request until later that night. But to criticize him for sitting in a room with children following the minutes of him hearing the news is such a weak argument. It's a non-issue.
Can't defend him on Katrina too much. However, the Governor and Mayor have jurisdiction, so Bush wasn't at fault for most of the Katrina mess. That being said, he sure as hell did bungle the PR effort.
No Child Left Behind? Ok, it wasn't a success. But he tried something that most Conservatives wouldn't do, and it's something that Liberals would have liked if it wasn't a Republican passing it.
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Post by Rifles on Oct 25, 2011 10:47:34 GMT -5
The war in Iraq was a terrible idea no matter how you dress it up. You're claiming Al Qaeda immigrated there, really?! I thought the whole reason we went there was because Saddam was going to blow us all away with his magical nuclear weapons? Saddam Hussein was not nearly as dangerous in 2003 as he was 10 years prior. Bush saw an opportunity to finish what his father started and secure control over oil and he took it. It had virtually NOTHING to do with terrorism or the people who attacked us yet you somehow back up his decision as if it makes sense.
As far as The Patriot Act goes, I have nothing to hide so it doesn't bother me as much as others. I was just using that as a counter to her comments about Obama passing a law with hundreds of pages that no one supposedly read.
Obama's presidency has largely been a wash, and i find it hilarious that people like you actually blame him for the failures of the previous President. If the only big moves Obama has made are the healthcare bill and the stimulus package...and the country is apparently so shitty and in need of Republican rule...yet a lot of Bush's policies remain in place...doesn't that mean Bush's policies are not working?
And regardless of whether it pisses you off or not, the fact that he sat there and finished reading to a group of kids while people were dying is horrible and shows what a weak person he is. It's easy for him to be some doofus cowboy gunslinger when he has his finger on the button and the world's most powerful military backing him up, but when shit hit the fan that day and people around him looked to him for a plan of action, he said "i'm going to finish reading this book about a duck".
If you were in the same situation and someone whispered in your ear that a close family member of yours was in the hospital or something, you can't tell me you wouldn't jump up and leave. Now imagine you're THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES and someone whispers in your ear the fucking country is under attack. Would you sit there and read to a bunch of kids or would you say "excuse me, i have to use the bathroom" and go be the fucking President?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2011 10:52:53 GMT -5
in response to l4e
the patriot act no matter what you think if it they sure could have spent a few days reading it.
iraq was nothing to do with 9/11, it taking place after 9/11 should not be used to obscure it as the error it was. To use the fact that bill clinton did something is poor, bill clinton judgment has mostly been wrong.
can't wait for the defense of torture in the the case of water boarding and the defense of rendition.
what is worse is obama has continued many of bush's policies.
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Post by Bittersweet Split on Nov 16, 2011 2:19:46 GMT -5
I'm sick of all of them. Republican or Democrat. What are the chances of getting a indie president? They get bigger for the next year every time someone like you decides to vote for one |
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Post by RocketMan on Nov 16, 2011 13:10:05 GMT -5
the us-goverment left a disaster in iraq. sure saddam was a maniac but he had a stable administration. as soon as the us soldiers leave the iraq religious maniacs will take over the country. and thats even worse
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Nov 4, 2024 5:04:30 GMT -5
Nov 4, 2024 5:04:30 GMT -5