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Post by start at the end on Sept 26, 2011 11:16:54 GMT -5
Won't even argue the point...Noel knows it, industry folk know it, and anyone with a pair of ears and a proper audio rig knows it: Oasis albums largely "sound" like shit. A real shame too.
And spare me the predictable, staid "wall of sound" bullshit. There's wall of sound rock lp's that are properly recorded.
Some tunes have sounded better than others (and worse) but lets hope for a bit of dynamics and sensible mastering.
Although I'm not holding m breath, IIHAG and TDOYAM are decent...we'll see.
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Post by LlAM on Sept 26, 2011 11:35:03 GMT -5
Oasis were always best when they sounded like they were playing live in your living room.
Polished production has always been reserved for George Michael.
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Post by thuperthonic on Sept 26, 2011 11:38:18 GMT -5
Is it strictly the mastering that is to blame?
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Post by start at the end on Sept 26, 2011 13:39:54 GMT -5
no, a good engineer has of course a massive influence on the end quality, and the production methodology is at play too.
If you know anything about proper recordings/hi fidelity, you'd know that the best DO sound like they're in your living room, and certainly none of oasis' LPs deliver that feeling. "Polish" has little to do with it. It's a shame that a good number of truly great recordings contain music that most are not nuts about, but that's just how it tends to go.
Again, just ask Noel.
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Post by CFC2013 on Sept 26, 2011 14:40:12 GMT -5
I actually like the production on the songs so far. The high quality audio helps.
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Post by thedon on Sept 26, 2011 15:08:21 GMT -5
If I Had A Gun sounds dreadful, The Death of You And Me sounds brilliant. Not sure why there's such a difference in production quality.
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Post by thuperthonic on Sept 26, 2011 15:53:37 GMT -5
It's a shame that a good number of truly great recordings contain music that most are not nuts about, but that's just how it tends to go. Like modern country music? I've been told by producer friends that modern country records sound better than anything else out there. |
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Post by Cast on Sept 26, 2011 16:47:50 GMT -5
rock n roll isn't about a polished or professional sound. Not that doesn't work in all cases because some great rock n roll bands have great production but barebones rock n roll like punk, garage rock, and some indie don't need good production. it's all about preference. DM sounds massive but WTSMG sounds like an album from the 60's production standpoint. HC is flat but SOTSOG is produced brilliantly. One of my favorite bands Pavement doesn't have professional recorded sound but their low lofi production fits their image and songs. But their is a difference to sounding good and being produced well. Pavement's Slanted & Enchanted isn't technically produced well but it sounds great because it works with what the band had envisioned the song to sound like. It also represents the bands DIY/slacker attitude.
With that being said TDOYAM in particular sounds absolutely fantastic the other tunes sound good but TDOYAM is arguably Sardy's best work yet with Noel in my opinion.
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jesper
Madferrit Fan
Posts: 59 
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Post by jesper on Sept 26, 2011 18:16:19 GMT -5
If I Had A Gun sounds dreadful, The Death of You And Me sounds brilliant. Not sure why there's such a difference in production quality. I agree. It doesn't make sense unless IIHAG is Noels own demo that he though too brilliant to re-record(not a good idea).. TDOYAM made me hope for a quality album where even the less stronger tunes would be held up by the ace production that noel can afford. now i'm worried as i don't think STC or RM are strong enogh to survive poor production. Regarding Oasis albums, the two first overall are perfect because liam sings so well and the songs are that good. From then on it rubbish (especially HC sounds horrible) up until DBTT, where they managed to have a raw but clear sound. This was partly due to the mastering. |
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Post by thuperthonic on Sept 26, 2011 18:52:55 GMT -5
Regarding Oasis albums, the two first overall are perfect because liam sings so well and the songs are that good. From then on it rubbish (especially HC sounds horrible) up until DBTT, where they managed to have a raw but clear sound. This was partly due to the mastering. So you disagree with the near-consensus on here that DBTT is too loud? And that SOTSOG is the best sounding Oasis record? Just curious. |
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Post by ToneBender on Sept 26, 2011 19:48:16 GMT -5
Won't even argue the point...Noel knows it, industry folk know it, and anyone with a pair of ears and a proper audio rig knows it: Oasis albums largely "sound" like shit. A real shame too. And spare me the predictable, staid "wall of sound" bullshit. There's wall of sound rock lp's that are properly recorded. Some tunes have sounded better than others (and worse) but lets hope for a bit of dynamics and sensible mastering. Although I'm not holding m breath, IIHAG and TDOYAM are decent...we'll see. I strongly disagree. Standing On The Shoulder Of Giants onward sounds great. Who Feels Love, Gas Panic and Roll It Over in particular sound incredibly lush and warm. Dig Out Your Soul is incredibly textured and the guitar and vocal tones in particular are pretty impressive. I won't disagree that the lack of dynamics is frustrating (as compared to an orchestral or jazz recording) but it's in line with other works in the genre. To say that they sound like shit and to immediately call any opposing argument bullshit is just silly. |
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Post by thestellasarecold on Sept 26, 2011 20:36:27 GMT -5
If you bang all of the Oasis albums onto your ipod without adjusting volume levels manually, it is apparent that whilst SOTSOG is much clearer and more layered than most of the band's earlier efforts, the overall 'volume' is considerably 'lower'. I'm using inverted commas here because I know bugger all about sound recording and engineering terminology but to the naked ear, it is obvious Noel was trying to redress that 'brickwalled', 'turned up to eleven' style of the first three albums.
Guigsy may as well not have played on Be Here Now such was Noel's desire to drown out every hint of bass with a thousand guitar tracks. It's curious (or cunning) how on the album version of DYKWIM, you can't actually tell that Noel has inverted the Wonderwall chords because you can barely hear any acousitc guitar. Later, he tried to make ammends by featuring bass lines and distinct guitar parts more obviously on SOTSOG (the fact that he played them all himself probably had something to do with it too!)
I think Noel learnt the error of his ways: don't allow yourself or your producer to load up on coke in the studio. I'm in the minority on this forum when I say that I'm not a huge fan of DBTT and its production: it sounds 'tinny' and 'distant', especially some of the drumming. Overall though, that may be more to do with the collection of songs on that record (most unremarkable IMO apart from TIOBI, possibly Lyla and Bell's opening track). Tracks like The Turning and Falling Down on DOYS sound brilliant- I love the gentle bluesy piano and solo in the former and the the textures of the latter. And whilst GOYHHL is an average track, it 'sounds' good- I like it when that thundering drum kicks in. No amount of production polish, however, would have made silk purses out of sow's ears like The Nature of Reality and Ain't Got Nothin'.
I think Noel's record will reveal all of its glories and nuances with a CD or LP spinning on a good stereo system. With a huge set of headphones on, AKA: What A Life! might be a real soarer... Noel probably does have regrets about the production shortcomings of his past work; I remember him commenting recently on how a great song like Some Might Say never lived up to its full potential because of the way it was realised in the studio. Noel has said that Sardy has enhanced his own initial production efforts on High Flying Birds: his eye will be very closely on the ball this time...
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Post by CFC2013 on Sept 26, 2011 21:08:52 GMT -5
IIHAG's production is great. I am not sure what you guys are smoking. WAL also has great production.
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Post by applebuttaz on Sept 26, 2011 23:42:32 GMT -5
i can never tell what's good production or bad...but as it is i'm well on my way to being deaf from listening to music to loudly :/
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Post by start at the end on Sept 27, 2011 7:20:54 GMT -5
Won't even argue the point...Noel knows it, industry folk know it, and anyone with a pair of ears and a proper audio rig knows it: Oasis albums largely "sound" like shit. A real shame too. And spare me the predictable, staid "wall of sound" bullshit. There's wall of sound rock lp's that are properly recorded. Some tunes have sounded better than others (and worse) but lets hope for a bit of dynamics and sensible mastering. Although I'm not holding m breath, IIHAG and TDOYAM are decent...we'll see. I strongly disagree. Standing On The Shoulder Of Giants onward sounds great. Who Feels Love, Gas Panic and Roll It Over in particular sound incredibly lush and warm. Dig Out Your Soul is incredibly textured and the guitar and vocal tones in particular are pretty impressive. I won't disagree that the lack of dynamics is frustrating (as compared to an orchestral or jazz recording) but it's in line with other works in the genre. To say that they sound like shit and to immediately call any opposing argument bullshit is just silly. You're speaking of a few moments on one album...I'm referring to an entire catalog, largely. But yes, SOTSOG is one of their better-sounding efforts. And not directed at you, but anyone who thinks Def Maybe and WTSMG sound "great" pretty much tells you all you need to know about their experience with expertly recorded music. And btw, although I regret to say it, some of the best sounding LPs out there are indeed COUNTRY records...as a good number are still laid down in Nashville where you'll find some of the best engineers (including one of my buds) and other sound folks in the country...as well as some of the finest studios. And not to come off as elitist- and I certainly do not believe you have to spend $100k to have a top-notch playback system- but a large number simply do not own one and have a difficult time discerning many quality recordings from the "others". Which is not necessarily a bad thing many times to begin with, in this day and age. |
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Post by start at the end on Sept 27, 2011 7:27:31 GMT -5
And again- no disrespect intended- some are not making the distinction between how an albums produced and how it's engineered....while entwined, they're also (2) very distinct entities. You can have poor production and dreaful audio engineering....and Oasis has seen plenty of BOTH.
and I'd ask for folks definition of "polished" and "professional" sound/production but I'd likely cringe at the answers.
Most in the industry woiuld tell you that great recording is like a great referee: if they're doing their job you don't even know they're there.
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Post by Headmaster on Sept 27, 2011 12:36:58 GMT -5
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Post by manualex on Sept 27, 2011 13:35:53 GMT -5
Turn Up The song difference from demo to album version is shocking!
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Post by start at the end on Sept 27, 2011 14:21:33 GMT -5
^ yep, and even some of the mixing these days is shockingly poor. It's a shame, as the technology and "art" have advanced we're many times ending up with inferior-quality recordings.
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Post by phdutton on Sept 28, 2011 8:11:39 GMT -5
I know the mastering engineer who has done Noel's album personally. So I can assure you that it will sound exactly as Noel wants it to. It's upto the client how a master should sound, and this guy is one o the best, and will have it sounding exactly as requested.
On another note, no SOTSOG isn't the best sounding Oasis album, it lacks punch. Yes, it's quieter than the preceding 3, which is good, but it also lacks the personality an grit of those albums.
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Post by Nyron Nosworthy on Sept 28, 2011 12:18:59 GMT -5
Whilst some of SOTSOG sounded very good, some of it sounded atrocious as well. PYMWYMI and ICSAL (ignoring the overall shitness of the songs) sound terrible, its as if you're listening to Liam's vocals and the melody on different speakers and they're both trying to drown each other out.
Heathen Chemistry and DBTT lack punch. Obviously it affects Heathen Chemistry far more because the songs are dull to start with.
DOYS sounded excellent though. I listened to it for the first time in a while recently and was surprised at how good it actually is. I got it into my head that it isn't worth listening to because of the way it trails off, but even the poorer songs are well produced and 'sound good.'
I know absolutely fuck all about music production though.
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Post by Headmaster on Sept 28, 2011 22:34:09 GMT -5
^^Yeah, DOYS sounds very good, it got puch, the mastering was well done.
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Post by ToneBender on Oct 2, 2011 11:06:39 GMT -5
Mastering has been all about loudness for quite awhile. That has nothing to do with the recording and mixing process. From SOTSOG onwards I would say that the aural quality of Oasis records is pretty good, excessively compressed mastering notwithstanding. Someone above made a comment that the best engineering is when you "can't hear it", or something that effect. That may very well be the case in jazz, but that's an artistic choice. By the same token there are plenty of artistic choices that are made when mixing rock music that you hear for a very specific reason. Certain mics, pres, compressors, eq., etc. are chosen at each stage of the recording and mixing process for the very opposite reason - they color the sound a certain way. A jazz musician paints with their live performance. A rock musician paints with their songs, their performance, their mix, their production, their album cover, etc. It's an entirely different beast and shouldn't be compared. As an example, the drums on Tomorrow Never Knows reportedly have over 30db of gain reduction from compression. Those drums sound INCREDIBLE. That will never happen on a jazz record. Does that therefore mean that Revolver was poorly engineered?
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Post by Fiennes on Oct 2, 2011 16:47:17 GMT -5
totally agree with Cast. TDOYAM is perfect the way is sounds, it can't be improved on any level. I'm not a sound techie but I think songs are just different. If you say IIHAG doesn't sound as good as TDOYAM that can also be said of TGR for example but it's obvious that TGR serves a totally different purpose, it wouldn't need such a polished sound.
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Nov 4, 2024 5:04:30 GMT -5
Nov 4, 2024 5:04:30 GMT -5