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Post by gdforever on Aug 12, 2011 13:04:01 GMT -5
Poverty does not excuse behaviour like that.
Neither should stupidity.
I've known people with IQ's in the 70's that would be able to tell you that what happened in that riot was wrong. I've known people who grew up dirt poor and wouldn't do something like that.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2011 13:12:02 GMT -5
Where did I excuse it?
They ARE the reasons for it though.
From England much?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2011 14:33:13 GMT -5
Multi-millionaire rockstar telling people on benefits how they should behave. Oh dear, Noel. They did it cos they're thick and broke. Fuckers!!!!! I think Noel has a point here. He was once in their same shite situation and he bettered himself through hard work and some brilliant music. Sure Noel stole some stuff in his youth, but he never organized a city wide riot to destroy everything around. thats just stupid! The answer isn't more prisons . . . The answer is more public discipline. People who see what happens when you screw around often lose the desire to do such mindless acts. The crime rate in Muslim countries who still practice "eye for an eye" is extremely low. These kids get away with too much bullcrap!  |
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Post by MasterplanMatt on Aug 12, 2011 14:57:33 GMT -5
Is there a link to this article? Also, the video games and TV statement is pretty valid. Most of the rioters would be playing 360s and PS3s and games like Call of Duty and Grand Theft Auto. They play it as a game and when they have an opportunity to cause carnage they go for it. The guy involved in the Norwegian massacre said he was inspired by Call of Duty and trained on Call of Duty. What, so the Norwegian killer went out and was pressing Left Trigger the whole time and reloading with the B button? Fuck off. The Norwegian guy was a Christian terrorist completely and did what he did for the sake of Jesus. People who blame video games and tv programs are way off base. I'm not saying Noel or you are stupid, cause I think the riots are meaningless and counterintuitive, but to blame video games completely takes the responsibility off parents, irresponsible or lacking social programs, poor schooling, drug use, etc. You don't learn how to shoot a gun or blow up a bus in a video game. And Noel says it's a reason, not the reason. |
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Post by lookingtothesky on Aug 12, 2011 18:15:19 GMT -5
What, so the Norwegian killer went out and was pressing Left Trigger the whole time and reloading with the B button? Fuck off. The Norwegian guy was a Christian terrorist completely and did what he did for the sake of Jesus. People who blame video games and tv programs are way off base. I'm not saying Noel or you are stupid, cause I think the riots are meaningless and counterintuitive, but to blame video games completely takes the responsibility off parents, irresponsible or lacking social programs, poor schooling, drug use, etc. You don't learn how to shoot a gun or blow up a bus in a video game. And Noel says it's a reason, not the reason. And Noel is wrong, not right |
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Post by MasterplanMatt on Aug 12, 2011 19:20:11 GMT -5
And Noel is wrong, not rightCause you successfully backed your opinion right enough. Just accept it's a reason. You posted many of the other reasons as well. It didn't kick off because of one thing (and no don't say the crack dealer who got shot). |
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on Aug 12, 2011 20:14:59 GMT -5
Is there a link to this article? Also, the video games and TV statement is pretty valid. Most of the rioters would be playing 360s and PS3s and games like Call of Duty and Grand Theft Auto. They play it as a game and when they have an opportunity to cause carnage they go for it. The guy involved in the Norwegian massacre said he was inspired by Call of Duty and trained on Call of Duty. What, so the Norwegian killer went out and was pressing Left Trigger the whole time and reloading with the B button? Fuck off. The Norwegian guy was a Christian terrorist completely and did what he did for the sake of Jesus. People who blame video games and tv programs are way off base. I'm not saying Noel or you are stupid, cause I think the riots are meaningless and counterintuitive, but to blame video games completely takes the responsibility off parents, irresponsible or lacking social programs, poor schooling, drug use, etc. You don't learn how to shoot a gun or blow up a bus in a video game. That opening sentence made me laugh out loud so hard. It's funny cos it's true. This post is spot on, too. By blaming violent video games you're basically saying meaningless violence didn't exist before technological improvements of the last 30 years. This, of course, is nonsense. It's also a very lazy explanation, and is inherently incorrect, in any case. Bad parents would love to blame the media for their dysfunctional children instead of looking at themselves. It all comes down to parenting and education. It also has nothing to do with being poor. The majority of poor people are actually upstanding citizens who are just doing the best they can to survive. To lump these morons - most who aren't even poor for that matter - with those who are trying hard to make ends meet is ignorant to say the least. Not to make this thread overly political, but I do find it quite odd that when the far right act in this manner they are called terrorists and people rightfully scorn them. However, when the left act as they currently are, people go out of their way to find a justification for it, and try to brush it off with an explanation. That's a bit perverse of a double standard. |
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Post by supersonic8587 on Aug 12, 2011 20:22:34 GMT -5
What, so the Norwegian killer went out and was pressing Left Trigger the whole time and reloading with the B button? Fuck off. The Norwegian guy was a Christian terrorist completely and did what he did for the sake of Jesus. People who blame video games and tv programs are way off base. I'm not saying Noel or you are stupid, cause I think the riots are meaningless and counterintuitive, but to blame video games completely takes the responsibility off parents, irresponsible or lacking social programs, poor schooling, drug use, etc. You don't learn how to shoot a gun or blow up a bus in a video game. That opening sentence made me laugh out loud so hard. It's funny cos it's true. This post is spot on, too. By blaming violent video games you're basically saying meaningless violence didn't exist before technological improvements of the last 30 years. This, of course, is nonsense. It's also a very lazy explanation, and is inherently incorrect, in any case. Bad parents would love to blame the media for their dysfunctional children instead of looking at themselves. It all comes down to parenting and education. It also has nothing to do with being poor. The majority of poor people are actually upstanding citizens who are just doing the best they can to survive. To lump these morons - most who aren't even poor for that matter - with those who are trying hard to make ends meet is ignorant to say the least. Not to make this thread overly political, but I do find it quite odd that when the far right act in this manner they are called terrorists and people rightfully scorn them. However, when the left act as they currently are, people go out of their way to find a justification for it, and try to brush it off with an explanation. That's a bit perverse of a double standard. Yeah, I really don't like to see Noel blaming TV and videogames for violence. He's a fucking rock and roll star, does he not realize like 40 years ago people were blaming rock music for the same things? People always try to blame the 'new thing' for the problems in this world, when the blame lies only withing the folks that are committing the crimes and not those working hard to entertain others. By the way, that killer in Norway mentioned videogames in like two sentences of his hundred something page manifesto, but of course that is all we hear about. That is some bullshit too that people try to find justification for this shit. There is none. It's just as heinous of an act no matter who commits it or for what cause. |
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Post by Level 03 on Aug 12, 2011 21:24:16 GMT -5
What, so the Norwegian killer went out and was pressing Left Trigger the whole time and reloading with the B button? Fuck off. The Norwegian guy was a Christian terrorist completely and did what he did for the sake of Jesus. People who blame video games and tv programs are way off base. I'm not saying Noel or you are stupid, cause I think the riots are meaningless and counterintuitive, but to blame video games completely takes the responsibility off parents, irresponsible or lacking social programs, poor schooling, drug use, etc. You don't learn how to shoot a gun or blow up a bus in a video game. That opening sentence made me laugh out loud so hard. It's funny cos it's true. This post is spot on, too. By blaming violent video games you're basically saying meaningless violence didn't exist before technological improvements of the last 30 years. This, of course, is nonsense. It's also a very lazy explanation, and is inherently incorrect, in any case. Bad parents would love to blame the media for their dysfunctional children instead of looking at themselves. It all comes down to parenting and education. It also has nothing to do with being poor. The majority of poor people are actually upstanding citizens who are just doing the best they can to survive. To lump these morons - most who aren't even poor for that matter - with those who are trying hard to make ends meet is ignorant to say the least. Not to make this thread overly political, but I do find it quite odd that when the far right act in this manner they are called terrorists and people rightfully scorn them. However, when the left act as they currently are, people go out of their way to find a justification for it, and try to brush it off with an explanation. That's a bit perverse of a double standard. K+ for you |
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Post by lookingtothesky on Aug 12, 2011 21:43:19 GMT -5
And Noel is wrong, not rightCause you successfully backed your opinion right enough. Just accept it's a reason. You posted many of the other reasons as well. It didn't kick off because of one thing (and no don't say the crack dealer who got shot). There is absolutely no empirical evidence that shows that children of any age group are more likely to commit acts of larceny or violence because of violent video game playing, i.e. Grand Theft Auto. Study after study have disclaimed this baseless theory. This has been consistent with a 2001 Surgeon General's report that the strongest indicators are mental health and home life as primary causes for school shootings. Even these "troubled youth" that we are talking about are not effected by these types of video games. These video games are not made to train people how to kill or steal. It's like those people who watch horror films like Halloween (a great film, by the way). 99.9% of people will enjoy it for its cinematic brilliance. But there is that .1% who will buy a Michael Myers mask and kill their sister and family, and it's that .1% that ruins it for everybody and creates these bullshit hypotheses on violent video games/media |
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on Aug 12, 2011 22:19:36 GMT -5
Put it this way: If Grand Theft Auto makes people killers, then Fifa2010 should make people soccer stars. How stupid can you get. It's moving pictures on a TV screen where you press buttons in order to orchestrate the actions. Now, in my view - and I could be wrong here (rolls eyes) - pulling someone out of a car, driving it, and then (more often than not) getting away with it is much harder than pressing a couple buttons. Likewise, I think scoring a penalty in a world cup final in real life is much harder than timing when you press the 'shoot' button on your xbox controller. But never mind, just as GTA has inspired people to shoot innocents, Fifa has inspired the next Thierry Henry. Oh. Wait. No it hasn't.  |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2011 22:41:25 GMT -5
Put it this way: If Grand Theft Auto makes people killers, then Fifa2010 should make people soccer stars. How stupid can you get. It's moving pictures on a TV screen where you press buttons in order to orchestrate the actions. Now, in my view - and I could be wrong here (rolls eyes) - pulling someone out of a car, driving it, and then (more often than not) getting away with it is much harder than pressing a couple buttons. Likewise, I think scoring a penalty in a world cup final in real life is much harder than timing when you press the 'shoot' button on your xbox controller. But never mind, just as GTA has inspired people to shoot innocents, Fifa has inspired the next Thierry Henry. Oh. Wait. No it hasn't. Your argument is quite possibly the dumbest one I've ever read. Video games are not responsible for teaching people to be killers, but it does desensitize them to the point that personal injury is no longer a deterrent to violence. Violent games create a feeling within people that they think they can and/or should act violently to solve problems which is simply wrong. People who feel that video games have no effect upon the behavior of a person are in denial of the facts. They do have an effect. However, I would NOT place the blame for the riots, or any other act solely upon whether or not a person was an avid gamer. Cheers! Bazinga! |
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Post by lookingtothesky on Aug 12, 2011 23:32:41 GMT -5
Put it this way: If Grand Theft Auto makes people killers, then Fifa2010 should make people soccer stars. How stupid can you get. It's moving pictures on a TV screen where you press buttons in order to orchestrate the actions. Now, in my view - and I could be wrong here (rolls eyes) - pulling someone out of a car, driving it, and then (more often than not) getting away with it is much harder than pressing a couple buttons. Likewise, I think scoring a penalty in a world cup final in real life is much harder than timing when you press the 'shoot' button on your xbox controller. But never mind, just as GTA has inspired people to shoot innocents, Fifa has inspired the next Thierry Henry. Oh. Wait. No it hasn't. Your argument is quite possibly the dumbest one I've ever read. Video games are not responsible for teaching people to be killers, but it does desensitize them to the point that personal injury is no longer a deterrent to violence. Violent games create a feeling within people that they think they can and/or should act violently to solve problems which is simply wrong. People who feel that video games have no effect upon the behavior of a person are in denial of the facts. They do have an effect. However, I would NOT place the blame for the riots, or any other act solely upon whether or not a person was an avid gamer. Cheers! Bazinga! You are pulling this right out of your ass. "Violent games create a feeling within people that they think they can and/or should act violently to solve problems which is simply wrong." That claim has no validity at all. It's a myth that has been disproved through careful, scientific and empirical studies. These kids that are "desensitized" to violence are so because of societal factors. Normal people know the difference between reality and fantasy - between real life consequences of murder/theft and what occurs in a video game. That extremely small margin that commit the crimes are not learning these lessons from their fucking video game consoles. Our Xbox is not our moral compass. |
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Post by pixarito on Aug 12, 2011 23:44:39 GMT -5
I agree with all of it bar the video games and TV bit. Because before video games and TV there was never any violence if this manner in the world was there? No there wasn't. In fact, Hitler had a secret video game console that he used to train on how to kill thousands of jews. He also had all his army train on video games and watch violent T.V. so they got desensitized. |
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Post by mkoasis on Aug 13, 2011 1:32:18 GMT -5
I don't think prisons are always the answer. I think that is short sighted and reactionary. You could toss them all in prison. But the fact is...some of those people don't seem like long term they are actually going to be a big danger to society. What they did was atrocious though. They should be put to work fixing what they broke and doing public works in the communities that they destroyed and getting hefty fines that could be paid to the victims in restitution. Prisons just cost money and so they will all just continue to drain even MORE money from society. They should be made to give back instead of continuing to take. Instead they get to sit in a jail draining from the public coffers as the communities that they destroyed struggle to right themselves while continuing to try to live their normal lives. Who helps them? Personally I would take greater satisfaction is seeing the people that had laid waste to my community cleaning up refuse and and maintaining my community for a few months than knowing that they are sitting in a prison getting 3 square meals and watching TV for the same length of time. This. Prison doesn't work and it's been proven countless times. What needs to be done is get to the root of these problems - i.e. kids should care about their communities. It's obvious they don't as they wouldn't be smashing and burning it. They desperately need to be taught values by a good education system which would teach them respect towards their community. Not only respect, but these kids need to feel part of the community. I think that responsibility lies with those who have real power - big business men, politicians, even normal folk like ourselves should be helping to improve communties. It's pathetic to lie the blame at just past and present governments. The violence in TV and video games argument? I'm not sure about that, but kids are heavily exposed to violence (quite explicit) through all forms of media - even pricks like a lot of rappers such as 50 Cent glorify the image of being a gangster with a pistol, plus stupid parents buy their vulnerable children 18+ video games like Grand Theft Auto. It seems that violence sells, and in a neoliberal society, that is going to be exploited to the max. I agree with you both completely. Regarding the looting: In a society like ours, people are given or attributed value based a lot on the things they own or can own: a big house with a lawn, expensive cars, fancy electronic gadgets and big screen TVs, "Coach" purses for the ladies, etc...you are told thoughout your life, over and over - directly and indirectly though implicitly - that you do not and will not matter unless you have these things. So if you get loads of people who feel that they do not matter and have no power, it seems not too unrealistic to see how they might (consciously or otherwise) gravitate towards claiming things that serve as depositions of value. This is quite similar to the line of thought that these mainstream rapper 50 Cent types advocate with the whole "bling" movement. Not trying to excuse the behaviours at all, what they did was completely wrong. But if you look at how our society works as a whole, it is not quite as "Senseless" as it seems, the pieces do fit together on a sociological level. ...Just something I've been thinking about. |
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