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Post by eva Fawkes on Jul 6, 2011 10:24:03 GMT -5
Noel's great, a straight shooter.
thanks to whoever put up the synopsis and video clip. i came on at like 7:30 a.m. e.s.t. and there were literally over 300 people in the Noel 'fact and fiction' section, i couldn't deal with that. i did see the name of the band and the tracklisting then, a little skeptical about the name.
hope it's great. God bless.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2011 10:25:47 GMT -5
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Post by BlueJay on Jul 6, 2011 10:29:16 GMT -5
I've said this elsewhere but I don't think Noel's being too fair on Andy. No-one in their right mind would try to come between Liam and Noel in a fight, and besides when Andy and Gem joined, they both knew that they joined as expendable musicians on base wages and that Liam and Noel were the ones with power. Andy intervening between Liam and Noel is like you intervening between two of your bosses - you don't want to make it worse or screw things up for yourself by either of them. But Noel was right to go against the whole Pretty Green advertising in the Oasis tour programme thing. Why should Liam be able to dangle his clothes in front of fans and make money from fans who came primarily for songs that NOEL wrote - although Liam started Oasis, it was always more Noel's band than his. Noel would've felt that Liam was trying to exploit Oasis fans for personal gain and rightly so. Liam should have kept the thing as a side project the whole time. Nevertheless I'm still glad Oasis broke up, it was the best thing for everyone and the band was past it's use by date. Now they can both flower into their own selves without conflict  |
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Post by tomlivesforever on Jul 6, 2011 10:34:58 GMT -5
I've said this elsewhere but I don't think Noel's being too fair on A Agreed, I mean where was Gem? There's obviously siomething a bit deeper there. |
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Post by alwaysnow on Jul 6, 2011 10:35:13 GMT -5
Yeah, I think we have to take into account each version of the incident, but really, why should it matter too much? They fought, they had been fighting for years, just this time one of them had enough and decided to quit the band. Of course, it was our favorite band, the band we all loved, but in the end, it was up to them, it was their decision and their lives. We can't jump on anyone's throats and blame them, since we weren't even there, nor even know this people in person, to know why did everyone act like they did.
As fans, we can be sad for the loss of a great band, but really, part of it is also looking forward and I really have been enjoying Beady Eye, and now we're getting a couple of new albums from one of my favorite songwriters of all time (if not my favorite). Life's good.
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Post by BlueJay on Jul 6, 2011 10:37:37 GMT -5
I've said this elsewhere but I don't think Noel's being too fair on A Agreed, I mean where was Gem? There's obviously something a bit deeper there. Yeah exactly. But as you can tell from the Stop the Clocks acoustic tour in 2006-07, Noel has always favoured Gem more and so makes concessions for him even though the same things could be said about him that were said about Andy. |
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Post by Gergely on Jul 6, 2011 10:39:03 GMT -5
Not buying either story in their entirity.
Noel had a lot of time to tell his version, Liam and co. also.
Anyway, what they both said that relationship-wise the tour was a continous downhill and probably both just had the breaking point.
Both say it's a shame but it's probably better to everyone. Which is most probably true. After a certain point it's not worth going on with a brother who can be a serious dickhead, the other brother, who can be also a serious dickhead and other band members who are not doing anything to stop the rot.
I'm not sure that they should've stepped in, too.
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Post by eva Fawkes on Jul 6, 2011 10:40:01 GMT -5
Agreed, I mean where was Gem? There's obviously something a bit deeper there. Yeah exactly. But as you can tell from the Stop the Clocks acoustic tour in 2006-07, Noel has always favoured Gem more and so makes concessions for him even though the same things could be said about him that were said about Andy. yeah. obviously Noel likes Gem, and maybe doesn't care for Andy as much. that's ok, everyone doesn't have to get along. |
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Post by eva Fawkes on Jul 6, 2011 10:41:21 GMT -5
Not buying either story in their entirity. Noel had a lot of time to tell his version, Liam and co. also. Anyway, what they both said that relationship-wise the tour was a continous downhill and probably both just had the breaking point. Both say it's a shame but it's probably better to everyone. Which is most probably true. After a certain point it's not worth going on with a brother who can be a serious dickhead, the other brother, who can be also a serious dickhead and other band members who are not doing anything to stop the rot. I'm not sure that they should've stepped in, too. Noel's story's much more detailed and seems true unless he's a really good actor. |
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Post by XTRMNTRSCREAM on Jul 6, 2011 10:41:32 GMT -5
Few things you need to take into account Noel and Andy were tight for years. In fact, there is a photo of Andy, his ex-wife, and Noel from a Creation Records Christmas concert from 1994.
As for Andy not being capable of jumping in between the two of them Bonehead did it all the time; if I recall properly the vocals for Slide Away were laid down after Bonehead defused a situation between Noel and Liam.
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Post by eva Fawkes on Jul 6, 2011 10:43:22 GMT -5
Few things you need to take into account Noel and Andy were tight for years. In fact, there is a photo of Andy, his ex-wife, and Noel from a Creation Records Christmas concert from 1994. As for Andy not being capable of jumping in between the two of them Bonehead did it all the time; if I recall properly the vocals for Slide Away were laid down after Bonehead defused a situation between Noel and Liam. just because you're in a photo with someone doesn't mean your tight. you need to pull it together. |
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Post by BlueJay on Jul 6, 2011 10:45:09 GMT -5
^^Yeah well I suppose Bonehead was able to do that because he grew up with them and was as hard and tough as they were. That's why Bonehead was an essential ingredient to Oasis - he was more than just a shiny polished head. He was a moderator and a true Mancunian party nut that lived and breathed the band in ways that Andy and Gem could never imagine.
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Post by XTRMNTRSCREAM on Jul 6, 2011 10:46:29 GMT -5
They were label mates and Noel was a admirer of Ride as was Andy of Oasis. Bell adopting the whole Oasis vibe on Ride final record played a large part in the band eventual dissolution. Not to mention Hurricane#1 were pure unadulterated Noel Rock.
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Post by eva Fawkes on Jul 6, 2011 10:50:19 GMT -5
They were label mates and Noel was a admirer of Ride as was Andy of Oasis. Bell adopting the whole Oasis vibe on Ride final record played a large part in the band eventual dissolution. Not to mention Hurricane#1 were pure unadulterated Noel Rock. i don't know. i can completely see Noel and Andy not getting along. Noel's outspoken and Andy's reserved, music aside. |
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Post by idledreamer on Jul 6, 2011 10:51:08 GMT -5
there's a saying: there's three sides to every story... my side, your side, and the truth.
i don't think we'll EVER know 100% what really happened that fateful night.... but it seems that andy is a really soft-spoken, gentle person. unless there is 'something deeper' as some suggest, i don't really see how noel could be upset at him.... andy was probably sitting there, thinking it was liam and noel's kettle of fish. it had nothing to do with him.
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Post by eva Fawkes on Jul 6, 2011 10:53:08 GMT -5
there's a saying: there's three sides to every story... my side, your side, and the truth. i don't think we'll EVER know 100% what really happened that fateful night.... but it seems that andy is a really soft-spoken, gentle person. unless there is 'something deeper' as some suggest, i don't really see how noel could be upset at him.... andy was probably sitting there, thinking it was liam and noel's kettle of fish. it had nothing to do with him. someone could've intervened. but, Noel and Liam are the meal tickets. power has it's privledges. |
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Post by gdforever on Jul 6, 2011 10:57:25 GMT -5
Noel said that Gem was a peacekeeper in the band. Maybe it was because Gem did diffuse the situations sometimes and contribute that way. Noone ever said that about Andy. Maybe it was that Andy never did anything. Gem sometimes did.
I think that the other 2 should have been involved. And that was Noel's point. He and Liam were fighting about the band. The other band members refused to
Honestly...that night Noel sounded in the right. And the fact is...Liam sounded out of order. I don't know what worlds you guys live in...but sensible 36 year old men do not attack their 40 year old brothers with guitars. They did that shit when they were on drugs in their 20's. Noel hitting Liam with a cricket bat, Liam hitting Noel wit a tamborine. Liam was right...I am sure they had worse arguements...but sounds like not recently.
But who seriously thinks that Noel is unreasonable not to want to be in a band with a man, brother or not, who at 36 tried to hit him in the HEAD with a GUITAR! WTF you guys.
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Post by BlueJay on Jul 6, 2011 11:00:08 GMT -5
^I agree that Liam was out of order. His whole insistence on the Pretty Green advertising and the violence he used were way out of whack. But just because I think that Noel was right and everything it doesn't necessarily make me a 'follower of Team Noel' with all the crap that everyone's making of it.
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Post by eva Fawkes on Jul 6, 2011 11:01:32 GMT -5
Noel said that Gem was a peacekeeper in the band. Maybe it was because Gem did diffuse the situations sometimes and contribute that way. Noone ever said that about Andy. Maybe it was that Andy never did anything. Gem sometimes did. I think that the other 2 should have been involved. And that was Noel's point. He and Liam were fighting about the band. The other band members refused to Honestly...that night Noel sounded in the right. And the fact is...Liam sounded out of order. I don't know what worlds you guys live in...but sensible 36 year old men do not attack their 40 year old brothers with guitars. They did that shit when they were on drugs in their 20's. Noel hitting Liam with a cricket bat, Liam hitting Noel wit a tamborine. Liam was right...I am sure they had worse arguements...but sounds like not recently. But who seriously thinks that Noel is unreasonable not to want to be in a band with a man, brother or not, who at 36 tried to hit him in the HEAD with a GUITAR! WTF you guys. exactly. |
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Post by bwilder on Jul 6, 2011 11:04:09 GMT -5
lost a lot of respect for andy bell as well. Agreed. it's a tough situation. Some people might be like, "Well, it was between the brothers." But i feel that as a member of the band, someone should've or could've stepped in and said something to calm things down a bit. it takes someone with balls and character to do that and apparently andy doesn't have too much of it. Or at least, not on that night. |
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Post by mayugem on Jul 6, 2011 11:05:17 GMT -5
Its always difficult stepping between brothers, impossible in some cases and unless your saving someone from a hospital visit its best not to get involved. Liam and Noel shouldn't really expect anyone to be become entangled in there problems. And while we know Liam has thrown some punches down the years lets not forget that Noel hit him with a cricket bat. They are brothers they do fight, and from my experience of brothers it doesn't matter whether they are 5 years old or 45 years. Those weren't brother issues. Those were band issues. PG, V-festival, bad press. It was the lead singer and the lead guitarist. You don't get to sit out 'cause it's easier. It's not like they TRIED and couldn't. They sat and did nothing. In some interviews Andy Gem both mentioned that these were always not band issues but brothers'. And also said they'd been feeling near the end, and the moment of truth had come. |
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Post by Rifles on Jul 6, 2011 11:06:16 GMT -5
I don't think anyone agrees with Liam's physical actions, but we don't have any clue what Noel might have said to set him off or provoke him. Blame goes both ways in any fight, but as you said, there's no reason for someone Liam's age to act in that manner. Based on Noel's description it sounds like Liam was fuming and just in a sort of rage. We still don't know what was said and what set it off.
Noel has to share some blame. I think people defending Liam outright are under the assumption there was a trigger to his outburst and we still don't totally know what it was or how antagonistic Noel's comments might have been.
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Post by bwilder on Jul 6, 2011 11:07:18 GMT -5
I agree with Noel on the Pretty Green clothing decision, as well. That's kind of grimy to want to promote your clothing line within another entity that not everyone's involved in.
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Post by Cast on Jul 6, 2011 11:12:28 GMT -5
both share the blame. Both stories probably have some truth to them. Although I'd probably take Noel's word over Liam's. Must have been a tough situation for Andy. They are brothers but this is your career you have a right to stand up for yourself. Regardless I think its clearly that both Andy and Noel admire each other musically, to be honest in a couple year maybe a decade or so but I think the issue between everyone will be resolved. I just think Noel felt let down by Andy not standing up for himself.
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Post by BlueJay on Jul 6, 2011 11:12:52 GMT -5
I agree with Noel on the Pretty Green clothing decision, as well. That's kind of grimy to want to promote your clothing line within another entity that not everyone's involved in. It's more than grimy, it's pathetic. And I'm a big fan of Liam as well |
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