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Jul 8, 2014 8:45:57 GMT -5
Post by Cast on Jul 8, 2014 8:45:57 GMT -5
Granger could be a really nice pick up if he finds his way back to being productive. The Heat do like to take on these "player projects". Although they are different players with different games Granger's career arc kinda reminds me of Micheal Redd. Redd obviously a fantastic shooter (and a 2008 gold medal winner) in his prime just kinda flamed out after 09. The same thing seems to happening to Granger but I think he can turn it around. The Pacers have developed but he was "the man" there for a few seasons.
McRoberts is a solid pick up as well. He has become a really nice role player in the NBA even though it has taken him a while to find his niche. His passing and shooting ability fit well with the heats spacing and game plan. I watched him back in his college days and it pained me that he never really reached his potential at Duke but he has become a better NBA player than his classmate Tyler Hansbrough who is one of the best college players of all time.
Still waiting to see if the Heat will address what they really need. A) A better PG/ball handler/playmaker B) A big body to do dirty work/protect the post
My favorite pick this off season has been Shaun Livingston going to the Warriors. He is an able defender and a superb playmaker. I couldn't be more happy for him for finding his way back into the league after his injury. He would have been something really special if that injury didn't take so much time out of his career.
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Jul 8, 2014 12:22:05 GMT -5
Cast likes this
Post by spaneli on Jul 8, 2014 12:22:05 GMT -5
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Jul 8, 2014 12:31:23 GMT -5
Post by spaneli on Jul 8, 2014 12:31:23 GMT -5
Can't remember a player falling off the map as quickly as Granger. Heat probably hoping he can find his magic again playing around great players, but I know when he was with the Los Angeles Clippers he looked like a guy whose career was done (and that was around Blake Griffin and Chris Paul). It seems like Riley will go after guys like Granger and and a solid big man like McRoberts. I don't know if Granger presents a significant upgrade, I don't know if he's better at this point in his career than Ray Allen (that's saying something). However, I think McRoberts is a nice addition over Battier and Oden. However, with these contracts, I still wonder how much Bosh specifically is willing to cut his salary because that's the only way the money works. The McRoberts deal is essentially their mid-level exception. That eliminates them from someone like Pau Gasol or Luol Deng, Gasol especially. With the mid-level gone, the Heat having Napier (1 mill. cap hit) and Norris Cole (2 mill. for this season) under contract, and Granger agreeing to a 2-year 4.2 mill deal, there's not much room for Riley to upgrade without asking players to take the minimum, which to fill his bench he's going to have to ask two players to do. All of that is with the hope that LeBron likes what he sees, signs his max deal, and Wade takes less enough so it placates Bosh. The issue right now is I think McRoberts and Granger are the best Riley can get before he hits up vets looking for rings who are willing to sign for the minimum. I still believe Bosh might be the likeliest to leave, especially now that he just received a max offer from Houston. Wade is stuck where he's at. LeBron can really only go to a couple of places. Nevertheless, Bosh is probably the Heat player with the most options at this point and the most to lose in terms of dollars. The Granger move surprised me because as you said he's fallen off signifigintly the last two years but he isn't there to replace Allen. Allen is going to resign once LeBron does. The granger move is to replace Battier a wing defender that can guard some of Lebron's assignments. Who can hopefully hit some open shots. He's never been a decent three pt shooter but his offensive game has always been better than Battier and IF he can regain some of his confidence could give them some offense off the bench with McRoberts which they have been missing the last four years. I was really hoping they could have figured away to get Gasol but that looks over now. Still sticking with what I've been saying all along and all three are coming back. Bosh does have the most to lose and he's already made a huge sacrifice to his game since he's been here. I'd have a hard time passing onthat "reported" deal from Houston but him above everyone else has said repeatedly he take a discount to stay here. The man is on a trip around the world right now and hasn't met with any teams, like LeBron, it doesn't seem he's that concerned about the free agency process this time around. Lebron has not met with any team either, his agent has. Same with Bosh. I don't think either need the vanity associated with parading around like a college recruiting trip, like Carmelo is. I think both had their fill the last time around. It's not like Bosh doesn't receive news from his agent. I don't take him being on vacation as a sign of anything except him owning a cellphone. As the article from Grantland points out, it's not just a salary cut Bosh would have to take. For Heat to make the numbers work, Bosh and Wade would have to go from 20 mill each this season, to 24 mill. combined next. I'm sure Bosh was expecting a pay-cut, but that large of a pay-cut? That's steep. If the LeBron does want the max and the Houston offer is real, then it would be difficult for Bosh to stay. If he does, then he's better than the rest.
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Jul 8, 2014 12:59:54 GMT -5
Post by Let It🩸 on Jul 8, 2014 12:59:54 GMT -5
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Jul 8, 2014 17:49:48 GMT -5
Post by Sternumman on Jul 8, 2014 17:49:48 GMT -5
Someone called in the local sports radio show today to talk about the story. Stupid people who only read headlines.
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Jul 8, 2014 18:09:52 GMT -5
Post by Sternumman on Jul 8, 2014 18:09:52 GMT -5
The Granger move surprised me because as you said he's fallen off signifigintly the last two years but he isn't there to replace Allen. Allen is going to resign once LeBron does. The granger move is to replace Battier a wing defender that can guard some of Lebron's assignments. Who can hopefully hit some open shots. He's never been a decent three pt shooter but his offensive game has always been better than Battier and IF he can regain some of his confidence could give them some offense off the bench with McRoberts which they have been missing the last four years. I was really hoping they could have figured away to get Gasol but that looks over now. Still sticking with what I've been saying all along and all three are coming back. Bosh does have the most to lose and he's already made a huge sacrifice to his game since he's been here. I'd have a hard time passing onthat "reported" deal from Houston but him above everyone else has said repeatedly he take a discount to stay here. The man is on a trip around the world right now and hasn't met with any teams, like LeBron, it doesn't seem he's that concerned about the free agency process this time around. Lebron has not met with any team either, his agent has. Same with Bosh. I don't think either need the vanity associated with parading around like a college recruiting trip, like Carmelo is. I think both had their fill the last time around. It's not like Bosh doesn't receive news from his agent. I don't take him being on vacation as a sign of anything except him owning a cellphone. As the article from Grantland points out, it's not just a salary cut Bosh would have to take. For Heat to make the numbers work, Bosh and Wade would have to go from 20 mill each this season, to 24 mill. combined next. I'm sure Bosh was expecting a pay-cut, but that large of a pay-cut? That's steep. If the LeBron does want the max and the Houston offer is real, then it would be difficult for Bosh to stay. If he does, then he's better than the rest. It was meant to read that neither of them have taken any meetings in person. (writing is not one of my strongpoints) My point was if he is really interested in what another team is proposing he is going to meet them in person. These are not the type of things you decide on the phone. Agents take meetings all the time. That is their job to see what is available for their clients. When either Bosh or James sit in a room with another team to hear what is being offered them, then and only then will I believe there is a chance either of them are even considering another team. As to the Grantland article Bosh does not need to take a big pay cut to stay in Miami now that they have signed players to the exceptions. It shows that the team will be operating over the cap next year. He would have needed to take significantly less money if they signed one of the other big name free agents like Gasol or Deng.
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Jul 8, 2014 18:42:22 GMT -5
Post by spaneli on Jul 8, 2014 18:42:22 GMT -5
Lebron has not met with any team either, his agent has. Same with Bosh. I don't think either need the vanity associated with parading around like a college recruiting trip, like Carmelo is. I think both had their fill the last time around. It's not like Bosh doesn't receive news from his agent. I don't take him being on vacation as a sign of anything except him owning a cellphone. As the article from Grantland points out, it's not just a salary cut Bosh would have to take. For Heat to make the numbers work, Bosh and Wade would have to go from 20 mill each this season, to 24 mill. combined next. I'm sure Bosh was expecting a pay-cut, but that large of a pay-cut? That's steep. If the LeBron does want the max and the Houston offer is real, then it would be difficult for Bosh to stay. If he does, then he's better than the rest. It was meant to read that neither of them have taken any meetings in person. (writing is not one of my strongpoints) My point was if he is really interested in what another team is proposing he is going to meet them in person. These are not the type of things you decide on the phone. Agents take meetings all the time. That is their job to see what is available for their clients. When either Bosh or James sit in a room with another team to hear what is being offered them, then and only then will I believe there is a chance either of them are even considering another team. As to the Grantland article Bosh does not need to take a big pay cut to stay in Miami now that they have signed players to the exceptions. It shows that the team will be operating over the cap next year. He would have needed to take significantly less money if they signed one of the other big name free agents like Gasol or Deng. Even with the exceptions, Bosh and Wade will have to take that big of a pay-cut. That was the point of the article, it already assumed that McRoberts and Granger counted as exceptions. The math doesn't work even with exceptions. As Lowe stated, " But it asked for the opt-outs anyway, and it did so to save money. Here’s why: The new CBA includes an “apron” that is slotted $4 million above the tax line, which is projected at about $77 million for next season.3 That would put the “apron” at $81 million. Teams are banned from exceeding the apron, even by a single penny, if they engage in certain transactions after July 1. On that list: using the full midlevel, which the Heat have apparently just done with McRoberts. If that proves to be the case, the Heat cannot go over that projected $81 million mark. Their three stars were slated to make about $61.5 million next season before they opted out. Tack on McRoberts, Granger, Napier, and Cole, and the Heat could see the apron fluttering just ahead of them before even thinking about what it might cost to bring back Ray Allen and Chris Andersen — incumbent players who, you know, actually helped last season." For the Heat to fill a roster with any meaningful talent they need Bosh and Wade to take major cuts. Bosh and Wade need to clear 16 mill. combined, along with Udonis clearing 2-4 mill. would clear around 18-20 mill. to fill a roster and that's assuming the Heat hit the max tax ceiling, so 81 mill.(the Heat will probably want to be no higher than 75 mill.), in order to fill that roster and that's assuming they use every penny below that 81 mill. That's with them already using their exceptions. The Heat will go way over the salary cap, there's no doubt about that, but Bosh and Wade taking cuts would insure that they stay below the highly punitive apron which I'm pretty sure Heat ownership want to stay below, along with Riley.
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Jul 9, 2014 10:18:00 GMT -5
Post by Let It🩸 on Jul 9, 2014 10:18:00 GMT -5
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Jul 9, 2014 11:51:33 GMT -5
Post by spaneli on Jul 9, 2014 11:51:33 GMT -5
I also buy-in to the thought that until James meets with a team then nothing is imminent. But for the Cavs to be shedding this much cap-room on just a whim and a hope makes no sense. They wouldn't be making this move if they didn't believe they had more than a puncher's chance. And I don't mean just LeBron's agent talking to them. The Cavs wouldn't shed this much cap space on only the word of an agent. They must have more of an indication from LeBron's camp that he's more just having a passing thought of returning. The fact that they're also reaching out to Ray Allen, Mike Miller, and James Jones (three guys that Miami would like to sign back at discounts) is also interesting. This report by Woj is also interesting: "LeBron James reached out to two vet free agents last week about joining him, IF he left Miami, sources tell Yahoo. Mike Miller was one." When combined with who they're reaching out to it's obvious that the Cavs will try to sign LeBron with the max and then entice Ray Allen to do what he was going to do with Miami, take less to play with LeBron, and then add on either James Jones or Mike Miller (don't know if they could afford both. Probably not). The fact that this move happens on the day that Lebron will meet with Riley is also interesting. One would think the Cavs would wait until they hear the results of the meeting before they would clear this cap-room. If anything, all of this is entertaining. But, it's clear that something is happening behind the scenes.
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Jul 9, 2014 19:41:03 GMT -5
Post by Sternumman on Jul 9, 2014 19:41:03 GMT -5
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Jul 10, 2014 18:09:55 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Sternumman on Jul 10, 2014 18:09:55 GMT -5
Woo Hoo this is fun.
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Jul 10, 2014 22:05:46 GMT -5
Post by Elie De Beaufour 🐴 on Jul 10, 2014 22:05:46 GMT -5
I think what separates LeBron from Kobe and Michael Jordan right now is that he doesn’t have the attitude or the fight that those guys had. For me, he’s not willing to take over a game, demand a game or put the game all on his shoulders. I would like to see him get to that one day, but right now I don’t think he has that, and that’s what Michael Jordan and even Kobe has.-Gerald Wallace
Right or wrong?
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Post by Let It🩸 on Jul 11, 2014 11:35:12 GMT -5
as an Ohioan, i'm excited about this - Cleveland sports fans deserve some happiness.
hopefully the Cavs get rid of those shitty current uniforms.
God bless.
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Jul 11, 2014 11:42:51 GMT -5
Post by Cast on Jul 11, 2014 11:42:51 GMT -5
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Jul 11, 2014 11:44:57 GMT -5
Post by spaneli on Jul 11, 2014 11:44:57 GMT -5
Wow! I guess that means Bosh to Rockets.
Wonder what the Heat will do. Will Wade still be willing to take a huge pay-cut now? He's really all they've got. The only good thing for the Heat is that now they have a lot of salary cap room. They could out bid some people for the likes of Trevor Ariza, but this obviously resets everything. The East has just become very winnable for everyone.
Hopefully that means good things for my Bulls IF D-Rose comes back healthy. Might also make us more attractive to Carmelo because if he came, with Rose, Noah, and Melo, the Bulls would be pretty formidable. Getting ahead of myself now, but I'm very happy for Cleveland. That city deserves this.
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Jul 11, 2014 11:48:10 GMT -5
Cast likes this
Post by Let It🩸 on Jul 11, 2014 11:48:10 GMT -5
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Jul 11, 2014 11:48:15 GMT -5
Post by spaneli on Jul 11, 2014 11:48:15 GMT -5
I think it would be difficult for them to keep Wiggins and get Love. Guarantee the T-Wolves would ask for Wiggins in any Love deal. Since Love is still under contract, the T-Wolves are still in the driver's seat a bit. I think it would take Wiggins, a couple of expiring contracts, and back to back first round picks, with a second round pick to get Love. That would be a steep price to pay for the Cavs. BUT, it's one that I'd pay, especially since their first rounders won't be worth that much and the book is still out on Wiggins.
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Post by Cast on Jul 11, 2014 11:56:07 GMT -5
I think it would be difficult for them to keep Wiggins and get Love. Guarantee the T-Wolves would ask for Wiggins in any Love deal. Since Love is still under contract, the T-Wolves are still in the driver's seat a bit. I think it would take Wiggins, a couple of expiring contracts, and back to back first round picks, with a second round pick to get Love. That would be a steep price to pay for the Cavs. BUT, it's one that I'd pay, especially since their first rounders won't be worth that much and the book is still out on Wiggins. I'd take that if I was the Cavs. Wiggins might become a huge star but Love will compliment James nicely. I'm happy for the Cavs. I'm a huge Kyrie fan and I'm gonna love seeing him play with LeBron.
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Jul 11, 2014 12:27:29 GMT -5
Cast likes this
Post by spaneli on Jul 11, 2014 12:27:29 GMT -5
I know LeBron said he had already decided he was going back to Cleveland (which I doubt), but I wonder how much that Pat Riley press conference turned him off. The ironic thing about that press conference was that Riley got the big three not only because of his accomplishments and rings, but because he was enough of a visionary to try to do what no one else had done, unite three superstars, not three aging superstars like the Celtics, but three in their prime superstars. Yet, the only thing he spoke about in his press conference was what had been done in the past, glory days, and legendary player stories. Nothing really about the future. He sounded like an old man. I'm not saying that press conference truly determined anything, but I wonder how much it didn't help. Miami had a lot going against it this time around, from opt-out clauses to new CBA rules, to the money just not being there, missing on draft picks, an inability to bring young talented role players, and really LeBron being homesick. Whereas everything came together for Miami last time, this time nothing did. Note: I just realized LeBron didn't mention Wiggins in his letter. That's probably because he doesn't know much about him.....or maybe he was already told that the Cavs might try to flip him for Love. Though I believe they shouldn't deal for Love. They should be patient. It sounds like LeBron is willing to be patient. There's no real reason to trade away a young talented player, burn cap-space, give away draft picks, and have a short bench. Yea, you'll have a big three. But if Miami teaches anyone anything is that there's a lot of short term success that came be gotten, but there'll be some long term headache. Essentially, having three superstars on the same team is still financially untenable unless you're the Spurs Which the Cavs won't be because Love is looking to get paid. Not worth the trade.
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Jul 11, 2014 12:44:32 GMT -5
Post by Cast on Jul 11, 2014 12:44:32 GMT -5
I know LeBron said he had already decided he was going back to Cleveland (which I doubt), but I wonder how much that Pat Riley press conference turned him off. The ironic thing about that press conference was that Riley got the big three not only because of his accomplishments and rings, but because he was enough of a visionary to try to do what no one else had done, unite three superstars, not three aging superstars like the Celtics, but three in their prime superstars. Yet, the only thing he spoke about in his press conference was what had been done in the past, glory days, and legendary player stories. Nothing really about the future. He sounded like an old man. I'm not saying that press conference truly determined anything, but I wonder how much it didn't help. Miami had a lot going against it this time around, from opt-out clauses to new CBA rules, to the money just not being there, missing on draft picks, an inability to bring young talented role players, and really LeBron being homesick. Whereas everything came together for Miami last time, this time nothing did. Note: I just realized LeBron didn't mention Wiggins in his letter. That's probably because he doesn't know much about him.....or maybe he was already told that the Cavs might try to flip him for Love. Though I believe they shouldn't deal for Love. They should be patient. It sounds like LeBron is willing to be patient. There's no real reason to trade away a young talented player, burn cap-space, give away draft picks, and have a short bench. Yea, you'll have a big three. But if Miami teaches anyone anything is that there's a lot of short term success that came be gotten, but there'll be some long term headache. Essentially, having three superstars on the same team is still financially untenable unless you're the Spurs Which the Cavs won't be because Love is looking to get paid. Not worth the trade. Yeah I agree with a lot of what you just said. I do think Wiggins will at least become a serviceable player in the league but he also could be a slightly better version of MKG. He is young so there is time for him to develop but how long is James supposed to wait for that potential to develop? LeBron has 3 maybe 4 year left being the top player in the league. I guess on the flip side you could say that Kyrie, Wiggins, and all the other young player get better so that he won't have to carry such a load when he gets older. Wade and Napier are just left in the dust. Wonder if Wade will do. Riley is a smug crafty businessmen and Gilbert is an immature emotional toddler. Don't particularly like either of them that much. Again, I'm happy for LeBron. He's description of his time in Miami saying that it was like college for him is appropriate. He has developed into a true leader and he has found his true use/purpose on the basketball court thanks to Spoelstra and his staff. Cavs are obviously better but its going to be interesting to see just how much LeBron's leadership will lead this team.
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Jul 11, 2014 12:50:28 GMT -5
Post by Let It🩸 on Jul 11, 2014 12:50:28 GMT -5
i have a feeling Lebron's prime will last longer than most...that fucker is ripped, takes great care of his body and has never been seriously injured. he'll probably be the best player in the league well into his thirties.
the Cavs are now the favorite to win the championship next season according to oddsmakers; that would obviously change if Carmelo goes to the Bulls.
God bless.
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Jul 11, 2014 12:56:31 GMT -5
Post by spaneli on Jul 11, 2014 12:56:31 GMT -5
I know LeBron said he had already decided he was going back to Cleveland (which I doubt), but I wonder how much that Pat Riley press conference turned him off. The ironic thing about that press conference was that Riley got the big three not only because of his accomplishments and rings, but because he was enough of a visionary to try to do what no one else had done, unite three superstars, not three aging superstars like the Celtics, but three in their prime superstars. Yet, the only thing he spoke about in his press conference was what had been done in the past, glory days, and legendary player stories. Nothing really about the future. He sounded like an old man. I'm not saying that press conference truly determined anything, but I wonder how much it didn't help. Miami had a lot going against it this time around, from opt-out clauses to new CBA rules, to the money just not being there, missing on draft picks, an inability to bring young talented role players, and really LeBron being homesick. Whereas everything came together for Miami last time, this time nothing did. Note: I just realized LeBron didn't mention Wiggins in his letter. That's probably because he doesn't know much about him.....or maybe he was already told that the Cavs might try to flip him for Love. Though I believe they shouldn't deal for Love. They should be patient. It sounds like LeBron is willing to be patient. There's no real reason to trade away a young talented player, burn cap-space, give away draft picks, and have a short bench. Yea, you'll have a big three. But if Miami teaches anyone anything is that there's a lot of short term success that came be gotten, but there'll be some long term headache. Essentially, having three superstars on the same team is still financially untenable unless you're the Spurs Which the Cavs won't be because Love is looking to get paid. Not worth the trade. Yeah I agree with a lot of what you just said. I do think Wiggins will at least become a serviceable player in the league but he also could be a slightly better version of MKG. He is young so there is time for him to develop but how long is James supposed to wait for that potential to develop? LeBron has 3 maybe 4 year left being the top player in the league. I guess on the flip side you could say that Kyrie, Wiggins, and all the other young player get better so that he won't have to carry such a load when he gets older. Wade and Napier are just left in the dust. Wonder if Wade will do. Riley is a smug crafty businessmen and Gilbert is an immature emotional toddler. Don't particularly like either of them that much.Again, I'm happy for LeBron. He's description of his time in Miami saying that it was like college for him is appropriate. He has developed into a true leader and he has found his true use/purpose on the basketball court thanks to Spoelstra and his staff. Cavs are obviously better but its going to be interesting to see just how much LeBron's leadership will lead this team. Well they also have McRoberts and Granger But seriously, I think Wade stays. No one will pay him as much Miami will. He's a legend there. No real reason for him to leave. Obviously the Heat will try to retain Bosh, but it seems like the Rockets deal is nearly finished. There would be Carmelo, but why would Carmelo go to Miami now? Unless Riley could sell him and Bosh on playing, yet I don't see that. It took a personal connection with D-Wade for Lebron to come to Miami. That same personal connection isn't there. I think the most likely scenario is that Miami becomes a player for Trevor Ariza and try to get Gasol, since the Bulls and the Heat are probably the only teams willing to pay him what he wants. So in decent world the Heat could hope for a starting line-up of Wade Ariza Gasol Napier Granger?? Not a great team, but certainly one that could compete in the East. Note: I have a very good feeling Melo signs with the Bulls. With the field clear and Melo wanting to win now, I could see him taking a pay-cut. Midwest basketball could get very very interesting.
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Jul 11, 2014 12:59:23 GMT -5
Let It🩸 likes this
Post by Cast on Jul 11, 2014 12:59:23 GMT -5
i have a feeling Lebron's prime will last longer than most...that fucker is ripped, takes great care of his body and has never been seriously injured. he'll probably be the best player in the league well into his thirties. the Cavs are now the favorite to win the championship next season according to oddsmakers; that would obviously change if Carmelo goes to the Bulls. God bless. All very true and I'm one of those people who thinks when it is all said and done that James will be considered the best, but it is tough to bet against Durant. Dude is 25 and is a level above anyone not named Lebron. They have been the top 2 players for the past couple seasons and it looks like it will be that way but Durant might over take him in 4 year time. Would absolutely love to see Melo with the Bulls. It would make trips up to Chicago all the better. My girlfriend lives up there and we pass united center every time on the pink line.
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Jul 11, 2014 12:59:58 GMT -5
Let It🩸 likes this
Post by spaneli on Jul 11, 2014 12:59:58 GMT -5
i have a feeling Lebron's prime will last longer than most...that fucker is ripped, takes great care of his body and has never been seriously injured. he'll probably be the best player in the league well into his thirties. the Cavs are now the favorite to win the championship next season according to oddsmakers; that would obviously change if Carmelo goes to the Bulls. God bless. Really? That escalated quickly. I don't even think they're the favorite to win the East at this point. Maybe if they get Love, but they'll still have a slim bench. LeBron was 1-1 (could make the case he should have lost both) against the Spurs with a big 3. Now without? I don't see it. That just seems like a rush for everyone to bet Cavs now. Spurs or OKC should still be the favorites.....we'll see about that Bulls (that depends on them not only getting Melo, but Rose being healthy)
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Jul 11, 2014 13:03:07 GMT -5
Cast likes this
Post by spaneli on Jul 11, 2014 13:03:07 GMT -5
i have a feeling Lebron's prime will last longer than most...that fucker is ripped, takes great care of his body and has never been seriously injured. he'll probably be the best player in the league well into his thirties. the Cavs are now the favorite to win the championship next season according to oddsmakers; that would obviously change if Carmelo goes to the Bulls. God bless. All very true and I'm one of those people who thinks when it is all said and done that James will be considered the best, but it is tough to bet against Durant. Dude is 25 and is a level above anyone not named Lebron. They have been the top 2 players for the past couple seasons and it looks like it will be that way but Durant might over take him in 4 year time. Would absolutely love to see Melo with the Bulls. It would make trips up to Chicago all the better. My girlfriend lives up there and we past united center every time on the orange line.You mean the Green line or Pink line mate Orange line goes too far south west to pass the united center.
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