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Post by Silence Dogood on Mar 7, 2011 9:47:06 GMT -5
NL4E hit the nail on the head
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Post by oasisfanboy on Mar 7, 2011 11:37:58 GMT -5
Definitely a huge part down to name recognition. Had DGSS been released by "Oasis", they'd have sold more. That's barely arguable.
However, it's "Beady Eye" over the door, and so we have to judge on its own merits.
I loved the quote in The Independent live review - BDI are in a unique position whereby there's an iconic aura surrounding the band, albeit it's a group of guys freed of their past baggage.
One of the downsides of that is that Joe Bloggs / Joe Schmoe don't know who they are. And to get the big numbers, you need Joe to see the CD in Tescos, Sainsburys, Wal-Mart and Best Buy.
On a personal side note, I don't have much sentiment for latter-day Oasis - all my emotion is invested in the Oasis I knew when I was 16, 17 & 18 (DM, MG and BHN). That's the Bonehead & Guigs Oasis I loved.
I'm not at all bothered by BDI's #3. I've been there, I've seen those early albums sit in the album charts for months and months. I've seen them play in tiny venues and huge stadiums. It was definitely time to freshen things up, and BDI is just that.
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Post by spaneli on Mar 7, 2011 13:18:29 GMT -5
^^I think GD was saying that Noel is a better songwriter than anyone in LAG, which it looks like you're not arguing with. In her post she didn't refer to the album dynamics, just that if lgfaver didn't think that Noel is a better songwriter than anyone in LAG. I could be wrong though, wasn't my post. But I don't think she was referring to whether BDI would be a better band with Noel. Just that Noel is a better songwriter.  Again, yourself and "GD" go hand in hand. Are ye sure ye are not the same person? I think I might start standing up for myself under a different name. Anyone who thinks I'm gdforever clearly doesn't read these boards enough. There have been plenty of times that I have argued with her. Doesn't mean that I am her when I happen to agree with her a couple of times. I mean really, grow a brain please. If I sound like an ass, then oh well. Apparently we're not allowed to agree with someone on this board. |
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Post by gdforever on Mar 7, 2011 13:36:33 GMT -5
You seriously don't rate Noel even a little bit higher as a songwriter than LAG? Not to say the latter are bad by any stretch... no... u obviously don't get it. what im saying is it's not about the quality of the album at all. the sales don't have shit to do with the quality of the album. if it would've been and OASIS album(just by name), it would've sold loads more. If Noel hadn't left the band, no matter if the album would've been way worse it would have still sold more copies. Fair enough. I wasn't asking about the record sales...I was asking whether you really thought the album quality wouldn't have been as good with a few Noel tunes. I just thought I'd ask...I'm not taking it as a given that anyone likes anything about Oasis anymore. The # of people slagging of either Noel or Liam is too much to take any opinion for granted. It's just that I disagree with almost every one of your posts...so just thought I'd ask...you still haven't answered the question. But whatever...I'll go back to rolling my eyes and ignoring your posts. LOL j/k...most of the time... Geeze a simple question to a specific poster seesm to have fueled some sort of backlash. Calm down everyone! |
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Post by gdforever on Mar 7, 2011 13:45:06 GMT -5
^^I think GD was saying that Noel is a better songwriter than anyone in LAG, which it looks like you're not arguing with. In her post she didn't refer to the album dynamics, just that if lgfaver didn't think that Noel is a better songwriter than anyone in LAG. I could be wrong though, wasn't my post. But I don't think she was referring to whether BDI would be a better band with Noel. Just that Noel is a better songwriter. Again, yourself and "GD" go hand in hand. Are ye sure ye are not the same person? I think I might start standing up for myself under a different name. By the way, maybe a little off topic but I think Noel is the best songwriter since Lennon/McCartney. A genius when it comes to crafting a song but IMO, if LAG where in charge of tracklisting DOYS we'd of gotten a better album. I hope I'm wrong but I think Noel's notions could be the only thing that could possible destroy his forthcoming debut. Someone needs to start letting Noel know that "Four Letter Word pisses all over a song like The Nature Of Reality" and to "Fuck the flow of an album, it's all about the tunes" I think Noel was trying to do his own thing. I think he should have done his solo album between DBTT and DOYS. He was dragging them along on a musical journey that the rest of the band couldn't follow on...and by trying to fit square pegs into circle holes they managed to mess up the album. I love the flow of DOYS...and I would have been pretty disappointed if they had just made half of a good album and then just began throwing randomness on it. I think it is the best flowing album Oasis ever made...and I love that. |
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Post by MacaRonic on Mar 7, 2011 13:51:23 GMT -5
Again, yourself and "GD" go hand in hand. Are ye sure ye are not the same person? I think I might start standing up for myself under a different name. Anyone who thinks I'm gdforever clearly doesn't read these boards enough. There have been plenty of times that I have argued with her. Doesn't mean that I am her when I happen to agree with her a couple of times. I mean really, grow a brain please. If I sound like an ass, then oh well. Apparently we're not allowed to agree with someone on this board. I was only taking the piss and anyway if there were plenty of times you argued with GDForever that means nothing because you could easily be a lunatic who argues with himself  |
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Post by gdforever on Mar 7, 2011 14:00:21 GMT -5
Anyone who thinks I'm gdforever clearly doesn't read these boards enough. There have been plenty of times that I have argued with her. Doesn't mean that I am her when I happen to agree with her a couple of times. I mean really, grow a brain please. If I sound like an ass, then oh well. Apparently we're not allowed to agree with someone on this board. I was only taking the piss and anyway if there were plenty of times you argued with GDForever that means nothing because you could easily be a lunatic who argues with himself Why would we be a man? |
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Post by MacaRonic on Mar 7, 2011 14:01:49 GMT -5
I think Noel was trying to do his own thing. I think he should have done his solo album between DBTT and DOYS. He was dragging them along on a musical journey that the rest of the band couldn't follow on...and by trying to fit square pegs into circle holes they managed to mess up the album. I love the flow of DOYS...and I would have been pretty disappointed if they had just made half of a good album and then just began throwing randomness on it. I think it is the best flowing album Oasis ever made...and I love that. I really like DOYS but IMO, DBTT is the best flowing Oasis record and also if 'Four Letter Word' was produced by Sardy and given the 'DOYS' treatment it would of flowed nicely within the album instead of, oh lets say The Nature Of Reality or High Horse Lady. Just that one song in and that one song out would've made the album a lot more pleasing. And I wouldn't call FLW "randomness" either but who knows maybe Noel thought it was "randomness" too, but whatever he thought of it he got it wrong.  |
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Post by MacaRonic on Mar 7, 2011 14:06:11 GMT -5
I was only taking the piss and anyway if there were plenty of times you argued with GDForever that means nothing because you could easily be a lunatic who argues with himself Why would we be a man? No comment.  |
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Post by Silence Dogood on Mar 7, 2011 14:36:38 GMT -5
no... u obviously don't get it. what im saying is it's not about the quality of the album at all. the sales don't have shit to do with the quality of the album. if it would've been and OASIS album(just by name), it would've sold loads more. If Noel hadn't left the band, no matter if the album would've been way worse it would have still sold more copies. Fair enough. I wasn't asking about the record sales...I was asking whether you really thought the album quality wouldn't have been as good with a few Noel tunes. I just thought I'd ask...I'm not taking it as a given that anyone likes anything about Oasis anymore. The # of people slagging of either Noel or Liam is too much to take any opinion for granted. It's just that I disagree with almost every one of your posts...so just thought I'd ask...you still haven't answered the question. But whatever...I'll go back to rolling my eyes and ignoring your posts. LOL j/k...most of the time... Geeze a simple question to a specific poster seesm to have fueled some sort of backlash. Calm down everyone! Of course i think Noel is a better songwriter than anyone currently in BDI, that's not up for debate. however, i must point out that Noel's output in DOYS wasn't as grandiose as some people would like us to believe. I also think that in the previous album(DBTT) LAG's tunes were on par with what Noel brought to the table. YEs, for the record i don't think much of "Lyla" and i don't care for "Part of the Queue". See what i mean? Still, that's not what we were talking about in this thread(if you read the title), this is a discussion about the album sales and why it charted where it did, etc... i was making the point that the album sold poorly not because the album lack good songs but because it wasn't "OASIS". Also that people(you in this case)with the notion that the album would've sold better because Noel would've brought in better tunes are just kiddin' themselves. why? because sales these days do not reflect quality. in other words, the album would've sold more if Noel was still with the band yes, but not because of his contribution, it would've had to do more with the fact that it was an Oasis album, that's all. |
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Post by gdforever on Mar 7, 2011 15:33:14 GMT -5
Fair enough. I wasn't asking about the record sales...I was asking whether you really thought the album quality wouldn't have been as good with a few Noel tunes. I just thought I'd ask...I'm not taking it as a given that anyone likes anything about Oasis anymore. The # of people slagging of either Noel or Liam is too much to take any opinion for granted. It's just that I disagree with almost every one of your posts...so just thought I'd ask...you still haven't answered the question. But whatever...I'll go back to rolling my eyes and ignoring your posts. LOL j/k...most of the time... Geeze a simple question to a specific poster seesm to have fueled some sort of backlash. Calm down everyone! Of course i think Noel is a better songwriter than anyone currently in BDI, that's not up for debate. however, i must point out that Noel's output in DOYS wasn't as grandiose as some people would like us to believe. I also think that in the previous album(DBTT) LAG's tunes were on par with what Noel brought to the table. YEs, for the record i don't think much of "Lyla" and i don't care for "Part of the Queue". See what i mean? Still, that's not what we were talking about in this thread(if you read the title), this is a discussion about the album sales and why it charted where it did, etc... i was making the point that the album sold poorly not because the album lack good songs but because it wasn't "OASIS". Also that people(you in this case)with the notion that the album would've sold better because Noel would've brought in better tunes are just kiddin' themselves. why? because sales these days do not reflect quality. in other words, the album would've sold more if Noel was still with the band yes, but not because of his contribution, it would've had to do more with the fact that it was an Oasis album, that's all. Thanks for answering the question. I wasn't referring to the subject of the thread...I was asking you a question....considering your negativity towards Noel @ times i thought I'd just ask. PS...I do think that an album with a big single on it would have helped the album sales as much as the name. Oasis was on the decline since WTSMG with every album selling less than the last until DBTT. There was no reason for it to turn around just because of the name. I think a big part of what pulled them out of their nosedive was the reception of their singles off DBTT (particularly Lyla and TIOBI) What DGSS needs is something to make it on the radio and get them noticed...maybe Noel couldn't do it either, maybe the radio is really too far removed for a rock band to get any traction...but he has written more hit singles than LAG...the inclusion of even 1 great single (written by anyone...not just Noel) would have increased the sales of the album. Not saying that BDI can't do it...but they didn't do it on this album IMO. Noel knows how and has written a radio hit in recent years...so I would guess that he would have more of a chance of writing one for this album. Not to say everything that Noel turns out is gold...but he can usually be relied upon for a song or 2 that make people sit up and take notice. That is the reason for singles isn't it? A tune to showcase an artist and encourage people to go take a look @ their album? Look @ James Blunt...he sold 12 million albums mostly off the back of You're Beautiful. Oasis wouldn't have sold as many records without Wonderwall. People hear a tune they like and they go buy the album if it is half decent. but first you have to have that tune will make people seek it out to give it that first listen. |
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Post by Silence Dogood on Mar 7, 2011 16:02:43 GMT -5
lol @ the James Blunt reference. again, nothing to do with the quality of the tune. Most of those 12 million copies were sold here in America and guess what?
the reason why he sold boatloads isn't because the song is awesome(which it ain't of course), it's because his label did its homework and got him on places like Ellen(target audience, hello!?), got his video on Vh1(you have to pay them to play your shit), got his single to radio stations around the country, etc, etc, etc...
so again, as you can see(not sure exactly how it works in the UK), to sell well in this country, all you need to do is promote the shit out of your material, and of course INVEST. if you're not willing to drop some dough to radio stations(clear channel), cable channels(Vh1), and internet sites(google), they you simply have no shot.
No matter how great an album might be, if there's no push from the label to promote it, it wont sell. that's the long and short of it.
Imo, if instead of releasing the embarrassment that was Bring The Shite, BDI had released a song like "Standing on The Edge..." or "3 ring circus" with a proper music video, and on all formats(CD/vinyl/Digital)-- ALL AT THE SAME TIME, it would've done better. Add to that some proper promo work, maybe a couple of appearances on late night shows, or putting the song on a comercial or a movie trailer(see what Paramore did with Twilight?) and you would've had an optimal result.
THAT ^ is how you do things in the year 2011(if you want a fighting chance to be successful).
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Post by gdforever on Mar 7, 2011 16:30:29 GMT -5
Fair enough about the James Blunt thing. Just the first person that popped into my head when I thought about who had sold millions of albums but only really had one big tune. Although I think you are kidding yourself if you think that people didn't like that tune...it's annoying...but people liked it. They probably did put a lot of promotion into that though...I didn't pay attention because I am not a fan. There are a dozens of other artists that I could point to and say the same thing. Such as Oasis and Wonderwall. The Verve and Bittersweet Symphony. The Killers and Mr. Brightside. KoL and Sex on Fire. If you took any of those tunes off their respective albums...the albums probably wouldn't have sold as much and the profile of the artists would be substantially reduced.
Every significant artist needs @ least one big song to really get their momentum going.
But what about Lyla. It went into the top 20 in the Modern Rock Charts in the US. I wasn't paying close attention but I don't remember hearing tell of Oasis dropping alot of cash or doing that much extra promo...it just caught on.
A big single CAN make a dfference.
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Post by songbird11 on Mar 8, 2011 12:38:36 GMT -5
^ Hey gdforever i started this thread you can thank me for all of this lol :-) i agree 100% with you though,it's the name 'oasis' which got people buying em,this DGSS is really great which is why i started this thread,it deserved to be number 1 as it's as good as the latest few oasis albums.
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Post by gdforever on Mar 8, 2011 14:20:44 GMT -5
I think Noel was trying to do his own thing. I think he should have done his solo album between DBTT and DOYS. He was dragging them along on a musical journey that the rest of the band couldn't follow on...and by trying to fit square pegs into circle holes they managed to mess up the album. I love the flow of DOYS...and I would have been pretty disappointed if they had just made half of a good album and then just began throwing randomness on it. I think it is the best flowing album Oasis ever made...and I love that. I really like DOYS but IMO, DBTT is the best flowing Oasis record and also if 'Four Letter Word' was produced by Sardy and given the 'DOYS' treatment it would of flowed nicely within the album instead of, oh lets say The Nature Of Reality or High Horse Lady. Just that one song in and that one song out would've made the album a lot more pleasing. And I wouldn't call FLW "randomness" either but who knows maybe Noel thought it was "randomness" too, but whatever he thought of it he got it wrong. I'll give u FLW but I think that is the only one that would have fit comfortably and been an improvement...but we don't know for certain that it was written during the DOYS period do we? I don't think that the rest of the tunes would have benefited from that kind of heavy or dense production. FLW seems like exactly the kind of rocker than Noel loves...so unless he was being perverse in keeping it off DOYS I don't think it was one of those submitted. |
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Post by space75gr on Mar 8, 2011 15:48:22 GMT -5
its not the end of the world , its not even the end of the day (even Elbow n REM seems that they are gonna lose #1 that week...) |
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Post by tomlivesforever on Mar 8, 2011 19:16:42 GMT -5
Definitely a huge part down to name recognition. Had DGSS been released by "Oasis", they'd have sold more. That's barely arguable. However, it's "Beady Eye" over the door, and so we have to judge on its own merits. I loved the quote in The Independent live review - BDI are in a unique position whereby there's an iconic aura surrounding the band, albeit it's a group of guys freed of their past baggage. One of the downsides of that is that Joe Bloggs / Joe Schmoe don't know who they are. And to get the big numbers, you need Joe to see the CD in Tescos, Sainsburys, Wal-Mart and Best Buy. On a personal side note, I don't have much sentiment for latter-day Oasis - all my emotion is invested in the Oasis I knew when I was 16, 17 & 18 (DM, MG and BHN). That's the Bonehead & Guigs Oasis I loved. I'm not at all bothered by BDI's #3. I've been there, I've seen those early albums sit in the album charts for months and months. I've seen them play in tiny venues and huge stadiums. It was definitely time to freshen things up, and BDI is just that. What a post, rather than sum up the statistics you've summed up their spirit. k+ |
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Post by MacaRonic on Mar 8, 2011 21:16:44 GMT -5
I'll give u FLW but I think that is the only one that would have fit comfortably and been an improvement...but we don't know for certain that it was written during the DOYS period do we? I don't think that the rest of the tunes would have benefited from that kind of heavy or dense production. FLW seems like exactly the kind of rocker than Noel loves...so unless he was being perverse in keeping it off DOYS I don't think it was one of those submitted. The Morning Son, The Beat Goes On (which kinda has a DOYS feel anyway) and Wigwam would all fit on DOYS. I know some those probably didn't exist but anyway, imagine this, 10 tracks, short but perfect: Bag It Up The Turning Waiting For The Rapture Four Letter Word Wigwam Falling Down The Shock Of The Lightning I'm Outta Time The Beat Goes On The Morning Son Just my imagination going wild but it would of been an awesome record! |
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Post by gdforever on Mar 8, 2011 21:20:47 GMT -5
I think that all three of those songs would have lost something for having been forced into the dense production of DOYS.
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Post by MacaRonic on Mar 8, 2011 21:27:52 GMT -5
I think that all three of those songs would have lost something for having been forced into the dense production of DOYS. I don't think so. I can just imagine FLW with more bass. Wigwam fits in almost the way it is. Beat Goes On almost has that muddy feel to it, it just needs heavier drums and TMS doesn't need to be touched. But fuck it anyway this is kinda a pointless conversation. My point is, if Noel and co had those tunes at their disposal they should of used them. I think it's very possible to make those songs work on any record because the quality is there, fuck the flow it's all about the tunes. |
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Post by gdforever on Mar 8, 2011 22:06:29 GMT -5
I think that all three of those songs would have lost something for having been forced into the dense production of DOYS. I don't think so. I can just imagine FLW with more bass. Wigwam fits in almost the way it is. Beat Goes On almost has that muddy feel to it, it just needs heavier drums and TMS doesn't need to be touched. But fuck it anyway this is kinda a pointless conversation. My point is, if Noel and co had those tunes at their disposal they should of used them. I think it's very possible to make those songs work on any record because the quality is there, fuck the flow it's all about the tunes. I disagree. But as you say...who cares. The band don't seem very open about actually talking about the birth of the songs so chances are we'll never know which of these songs had been around since DOYS. According to Liam and co. none of them are Oasis rejects...but we know that TR @ least was a cast-off of HC so I doubt they'll ever confirm what came from the Oasis eras and what came after. |
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Again, yourself and "GD" go hand in hand. Are ye sure ye are not the same person? I think I might start standing up for myself under a different name.
Nov 4, 2024 5:04:30 GMT -5
Nov 4, 2024 5:04:30 GMT -5