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Post by oasis6 on Jul 27, 2009 12:31:54 GMT -5
This is not a complaning or supporting Liam's voice thread. I just want some history here. When can we say was the first gig where people started complaining about Liam's voice? Or what gig would it be where it wasn't great and then from then on out it was never the same. Was it in the middle of a tour? Or was it at the start of a new tour after a few years off? I know the answer will vary, but thanks.
Also, I can't imagine this can be said for albums, as he usually sounds good, but my guess if there were to be a point, would it maybe be Be Here Now to SOTSOG? I think Be Here Now he still sounds like young Liam but SOTSOG he gets a bit grainy.
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Post by mkoasis on Jul 27, 2009 13:04:03 GMT -5
Even as early as the first BHN gigs, you can hear a noticeable difference in the amount of strain and hoarseness in his vox, as compared to the 1994-1996 vox. Not to say he sounds bad at all, but to me, this is where it started. South American tour of BHN in 1998, especially Chile Apoquindo Stadium you reallyhear it, he sounds like he did on FTM. Now he may have had a cold or something at the time, but still, you get the idea. The few gigs they played in the US in 1999 are brilliant some of his best vox ever. Most of 2000 in fact, sounded pretty good. you can tell that he was still sounding closer to the Liam of now compared to the Liam of 1994-96, but he still sounded pretty good, could pull and hold his notes and sneer and with power. The vox on FTM I dont think is an accurate representation of his overall 2000 performance level. 2001 and for a lot of 2002 the 'turning' as you put it, was pretty much cemented, you can tell or sure his voice is different, but like i said, most of the time, he could still deliver. Listen to the Transbordeur Lyon gig from 2002, i think it was the first night of the HC tour, but he sounds like he did in 1996. MTV Japan we all know was stunning. So at this point, some harshness is there and some songs are harder t sing for him cos he couldnt hold the notes but still he was ok i think. Some ppl think otherwise, that his voice was finished here, but although it wasnt as good as 2000-2001 where I think he still sounded tremendous with his new mature voice. The DBTT tour in 2005 was where we all started to think that he was finished. There were a couple good gigs in there like the Milan Alcatraz and Manchester City but overall, not that good. And 2006, when they played south America he was at his absolute worst. Its sad and bloody painful to hear him do Acquiesce at Buenos Aires Campo do Polo (and therefore, the worst bootleg to listen to, especially if you remember that blazer without a shirt we was wearing lol) With the DOYS tour there was marked improvement. Through the Canadian tour he held up well and then started to go down again in Europe with a couple exceptions like the Paris Bercy gig, but still not as bad as 2005, maybe more like 2002-3. When they go to Japan and then later South America, we see Liam on fire and doing so much better than we'd all expected. Listen to those gigs, specifically Lima which I think is best, and you'll see. He nails almost every song. Personally, I still think it hurts to hear him sing C&A since 2002 or 3 and even now still, but most songs he has impoved on this tour. I hope that helps where in Canada are you from?
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Post by Casino Boogie on Jul 27, 2009 13:29:19 GMT -5
I think it was getting his teeth smashed in that ruined it for me. Finsbury Park was great but the end of that HC tour (the UK Arenas) was shocking. He didn't seem to be able to pronounce half the lyrics. The DBTT tour was pretty bad too but this tour he has been superb in my opinion. He can't hit the high notes anymore and I'm sure there's many songs he could no longer sing but it's been pretty good overall. Not too much of that backing away from the microphone before he's finished the lyric!
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Post by idledreamer on Jul 27, 2009 13:51:52 GMT -5
well for me there was a NOTICEABLE difference in his voice between d.m. and wtsmg ... not a bad difference but wow did his voice change significantly ... for a good example listen to the gleneagles golf club bootleg... it's amazin how he sings c & a , digsy's dinner, shakermaker etc. ... and for even more of a difference,, listen to te pre dm demo's ,, he sounds like a completely different person! can somebody speculate, what was it exactly that made liam's voice so drastically different (on the records and tour) between d.m. and wtsmg?
i agree with mkoasis,, the first noticeable decline in his voice was the latter leg of b.h.n. tour, i think it was from the combination of too much singing/performing and the endless consumption of fags and alcohol and cocaine. as a matter of fact, i think his voice went back up a notch for the sotsog tour, for example if u listen to performances of 'stand by me' from the giants tour u will notice how much better he sings it, holding the notes much longer than he did from the b.h.n. tour. of course, this is when noel supposedly imposed a 'no more coke' policy for the band, is it not?
then of course, the bottom fell out for much of the h.c. and dbtt tour, however for d.b.t.t. some show's stand out for me,, notably m.s.g. , boston (mansfield) mass. and also v-fest.
now, i think if he can maintain his voice the way it has sounded during the d.o.y.s. tour, i think that's all we can realisticaly ask for, i don't think his voice can get much better anymore than it is now at this point. but, with surgery, who knows? he would probably be able to hold the notes longer and the raspiness may diminish slightly, but he will never be able to sing the high notes like he used to.
now i ask this: suppose he never ever did any heaving partying (coke, booze) and he didn't tilt his head way back like he does in his singing stance. do you think he would still today sound close to what he was back during m.g. and b.h.n. ?
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Post by Soldier Ron on Jul 27, 2009 14:10:04 GMT -5
The first time I specifically remember Liam being crucified for his voice was after they played the Friday night at Glastonbury 2004, most of which was shown on the BBC. IIRC every body was having a bit of bad gig, it was Zak's second proper gig and the drums were really sluggish and the band wasn't tight, but Liam's vox in particular make that gig pretty excruciating to listen to.
I remember a couple of days after Glastonbury the music press printed a letter from a reader who witheringly commented 'enjoyed Oasis at Glastonbury, and their new song "Chamois Simmer-Noah"'.
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Post by oasis6 on Jul 27, 2009 15:14:21 GMT -5
Wow all of this is great! Thanks.
ps I'm from Toronto.
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Post by Headmaster on Jul 27, 2009 15:19:18 GMT -5
Liam's voice became really bad was on that Noise and Confusion 2001 tour.
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Post by MacaRonic on Jul 27, 2009 16:04:02 GMT -5
^^ I agree in a way but that tour had some of his best performances too. Glasgow and Greek Theatre L.A spring to mind.
I personally think Liam's vocals sounded best between 1999 and 2001, obviously with some exceptions.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2009 16:34:17 GMT -5
Heres how i see it
94 9/10 95 10/10 96 10/10 97 9.5/10 98 8/10 99 10/10 2000 9/10 (my favorate liam voice) 2001 8/10 2002 7/10(starting to sound very nasal) 2004 4/10 (kermit the frog) 2005 6/10 (excellent in this clip) but most of the time he sounded like he was singing with sand in his throat
2006 3/10(fucking abysmal)
2007 5/10 this is a strange one because at the brits he sounded shocking like here:
but at the soundcheck at 3:15 he sounds pretty decent:
and he soundeds amazing on the within you without you cover from 2007 so i reckon he sounded alright in 2007 but was pissed off his head during the brits performance and that made him sound shit 2008 6/10 started off amazing:
ended up sounding poor: 2009 8/10 sounding brilliant again now :
ps. i dont expect anyone to trawl through all those youtube videos there just there for reference ;D
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Post by pepin on Jul 27, 2009 20:16:14 GMT -5
The last 10/10 performances (IMO) were in 2002 (the Japan gigs were excellent). After that, his voice became very strained. The straining is a bit better lately, but it seems like his tuning has gotten worse. IMO, he sang more wrong notes this tour than in any other.
Glastonbury '04 is probably the worst performance ever.
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Post by forestfan on Jul 27, 2009 20:53:38 GMT -5
Even as early as the first BHN gigs, you can hear a noticeable difference in the amount of strain and hoarseness in his vox, as compared to the 1994-1996 vox. Not to say he sounds bad at all, but to me, this is where it started. South American tour of BHN in 1998, especially Chile Apoquindo Stadium you reallyhear it, he sounds like he did on FTM. Now he may have had a cold or something at the time, but still, you get the idea. The few gigs they played in the US in 1999 are brilliant some of his best vox ever. Most of 2000 in fact, sounded pretty good. you can tell that he was still sounding closer to the Liam of now compared to the Liam of 1994-96, but he still sounded pretty good, could pull and hold his notes and sneer and with power. The vox on FTM I dont think is an accurate representation of his overall 2000 performance level. 2001 and for a lot of 2002 the 'turning' as you put it, was pretty much cemented, you can tell or sure his voice is different, but like i said, most of the time, he could still deliver. Listen to the Transbordeur Lyon gig from 2002, i think it was the first night of the HC tour, but he sounds like he did in 1996. MTV Japan we all know was stunning. So at this point, some harshness is there and some songs are harder t sing for him cos he couldnt hold the notes but still he was ok i think. Some ppl think otherwise, that his voice was finished here, but although it wasnt as good as 2000-2001 where I think he still sounded tremendous with his new mature voice. The DBTT tour in 2005 was where we all started to think that he was finished. There were a couple good gigs in there like the Milan Alcatraz and Manchester City but overall, not that good. And 2006, when they played south America he was at his absolute worst. Its sad and bloody painful to hear him do Acquiesce at Buenos Aires Campo do Polo (and therefore, the worst bootleg to listen to, especially if you remember that blazer without a shirt we was wearing lol) With the DOYS tour there was marked improvement. Through the Canadian tour he held up well and then started to go down again in Europe with a couple exceptions like the Paris Bercy gig, but still not as bad as 2005, maybe more like 2002-3. When they go to Japan and then later South America, we see Liam on fire and doing so much better than we'd all expected. Listen to those gigs, specifically Lima which I think is best, and you'll see. He nails almost every song. Personally, I still think it hurts to hear him sing C&A since 2002 or 3 and even now still, but most songs he has impoved on this tour. I hope that helps where in Canada are you from? couldnt agree more brilliant post Glastonbury 2004 has to be the gig where this controversy started HC tour 2002..is were he went for the lennon..sneering sound..i.e the turning 2006- was his shittest vocals ive ever heard sounded like he was raping his throat to sing
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Post by vespa on Jul 28, 2009 10:16:47 GMT -5
he started to strain on the be here now tour,since then theres been flashes of his old style,most notably on the heathen chemistry tour,dbtt sounded like he was tryin to find his voice again but this tour has really seen him perform,especially when he uses his old stance again,i just dont think he can use that all the time cos of the strai it puts on his voice an throat
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Post by thedon on Jul 28, 2009 10:26:24 GMT -5
Since Glastonbury 2004. I don't enjoy Oasis bootlegs at all anymore, I loved them up until his voice changed from 2004 onwards.
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Post by His Royal Majesty Revolver on Jul 28, 2009 12:34:30 GMT -5
I will never listen to a boot of anything after the HC tour. Not worth it. I'd like to thank Thexrain for posting that list. Love it, man.
Liam's voice sounds good for most of the BHN tour and for SOTSOG as well. Really, hindsight has offered us opportunity to criticise it as his voice worsening, but at the time it was just likely viewed as his voice maturing or changing. It wasn't until 2004 or whatever that it went out the window
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Post by NYR on Jul 28, 2009 12:40:51 GMT -5
i knew it was getting really bad when i heard his singing on heathen chemistry.
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Post by Nyron Nosworthy on Jul 28, 2009 13:29:10 GMT -5
Glastonbury was undoubtedly when it all went horribly wrong. I'm not saying Heathen Chemistry tour was a bastion of brilliance but he still sounded quite good (certainly acceptable) then. Glastonbury was horrific.
DBTT had been delayed and there were strong rumours of a split so that combined with Glastonbury was particularly bad.
I'd say he's had 4 "voices" - 1994 to 1998, 2000 to 2002, 2004 to 2007 and 2008 onwards. He completely fucked up his 2 big performances in the third stage - Glastonbury and The Brits. He's been consistently quite good on this tour.
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Post by His Royal Majesty Revolver on Jul 28, 2009 15:18:12 GMT -5
Noseworthy is right. HC was pretty decent but it was Glastonbury 2004 that was atrocious. Still, this tour has really marked an improvement!!
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Post by oasis6 on Jul 28, 2009 16:07:35 GMT -5
I see that in 2003 their last date was March 12 and Glastonbury was June 25th 2004. Something must have happened in those 15 months.
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Post by mrmojorisen on Jul 28, 2009 16:59:59 GMT -5
I think towards the end of this tour he has been great.
There are still songs he struggles with but i hey fook it thats rock n roll baby..........................
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Post by mkoasis on Jul 28, 2009 17:06:00 GMT -5
Well, I think if they change up the setlist (to segue into another Forum Greatest Hits topic), we wouldnt hear him struggle with the same songs. My Big Mouth has shown us that he can still deliver and bring back a whole lot of back catalogue songs to life with a little twist here and there, and still sound great.
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Post by thestellasarecold on Jul 29, 2009 2:22:32 GMT -5
The last 10/10 performances (IMO) were in 2002 (the Japan gigs were excellent). After that, his voice became very strained. The straining is a bit better lately, but it seems like his tuning has gotten worse. IMO, he sang more wrong notes this tour than in any other. Glastonbury '04 is probably the worst performance ever. I agree totally that his ability to hit notes with any kind of range or power has totally diminished and seems to continue on a downward spiral as the years progress. People say Liam has improved this tour and that's true in so far as he has eliminated the really slurred, extremely gravelly and strained vocals of 2006-07. However, he is worsening overall IMO. He has little range nor tune; it's more a case of him having to shout and sneer now than sing. Even in the acoustic rendition of I'm Outta Time for American radio there was a real fragility in his voice. You can hear it too in the DOYS record in songs like Bag It Up and The Turning which double-track Noel singing at a higher pitch to conceal Liam's deficiencies. It's still okay to listen to him sing if you're happy to accept it as a rawer, punk rock sound but Liam set the bar so high in the first place, it makes you long for the golden years...
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Post by idledreamer on Jul 29, 2009 3:25:58 GMT -5
I'd say he's had 4 "voices" - 1994 to 1998, 2000 to 2002, 2004 to 2007 and 2008 onwards. almost rite mate but i would say five: 1993-1994 1995-1998 2000-2002 2004-2007 2008- ?
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Post by forestfan on Jul 29, 2009 4:38:43 GMT -5
Liam sounds like a punk rocker now doesnt he when i think about it.
his voice nowadays is attacking..but not as powerful as say early 2005..or 2001-2002
the rock wercher bootleg was so good ...the best ive heard him in a long time and its 2009
he has lost range.but hes controlling his voice...he knows if he slurs his words he sounds like kermit..but now hes compensating for it.his voice sounds nearer to the golden years
there is no shinnnnnneeeee anymoe in his voice..and i dont belive he wnats there to be
i can live with shinee...he obviously likes his punk rock voice
lets get on with it people
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Post by Marcos on Jul 29, 2009 9:18:14 GMT -5
Liam sounds like a punk rocker now doesnt he when i think about it. his voice nowadays is attacking..but not as powerful as say early 2005..or 2001-2002 the rock wercher bootleg was so good ...the best ive heard him in a long time and its 2009 he has lost range.but hes controlling his voice...he knows if he slurs his words he sounds like kermit..but now hes compensating for it.his voice sounds nearer to the golden years there is no shinnnnnneeeee anymoe in his voice..and i dont belive he wnats there to be i can live with shinee...he obviously likes his punk rock voice lets get on with it people let's see it that way then we don't have the "sunshineeeeeeee" in Cigarattes and Alcohol anymore but at least he started singing "chasing the suuuuuuun" in Slide Away again instead of "chasing the sun!!" ;D he has been pretty consistent this tour, specially after that gig in Berlim (January) when he lost his voice during I'm Outta Time His best voice ever to me was at G-Mex in '97 he nailed every single note of every song! that voice was a mix of his voice from '96 and 2000-2001 and i don't think his Glaston '04 performance was his worst! We had tons of worse performances on the DBTT tour, specially in 2006
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Post by His Royal Majesty Revolver on Jul 30, 2009 14:12:14 GMT -5
Well, Glastonbury was pretty atrocious, but I will agree that 2006 was a disaster... if not also 2005. The entirety of the DBTT tour was spectacularly bad, and I don't think it wrong to clump Glastonbury 2004 in with that....
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