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Post by Beady’s Here Now on Feb 28, 2008 23:10:37 GMT -5
The much heated debate.
Since I grew up in the 90s, I obviously began following footie then, circa 1996. 1997/98 I was a hardcore Arsenal fan.
And I have to admit, I liked it with more English players. Fowler, Collymore, McManaman, Adams, Seaman, Dixon, Ian Wright, etc etc etc
Not that i liked all those players, or thought that Collymore was good, but it was just the knowledge that they were English that I liked.
Now, I feel the idea of quotas and the forcing teams to have English players is daft. A club is a club, it's not the international team. The goal of the manager is to get the best players at a reasonable price, and if they're internationals, so be it.
But it does bother me when I think about it. EPL - ENGLISH Premiere League. The league is, of course, stationed in England - but that's as far as the English part goes now. --> My point: the EPL has lost it's English identity.
I find that ashame. And I hope in the near future quality English players are chosen again because their quality outshines the Dutch, Italians, etc. But I will not go as far as advocating quotas and the like. As I said above, that's just daft.
Wenger, who gets the most stick, has tried with the English players. They are either:
a.) Not good enough - for Arsenal at least (Bentley, Sidewell...and soon to by Hoyte) b.) Too expensive (30mill for Rio Ferdinand vs. 240K for Kolo Toure) c.) Have attitude problems (Pennant, Cole)
The problems of lack of English players don't lie with foreign owners (Roman), nor do they lie with foreign managers (Benitez, Wenger). They aren't racist, or Anglophobes. Rather, the system lies with the English training system.
Instead of focusing on forcing sub-par English players onto quality teams because of their nationality; time and effort should rather be focused on fixing the institution in England.
Get better coaches. Fix poor attitudes at a young age. Revolutionized the training program, and do so by learning from our successful European counterparts.
Quotas will not produce another Bobby Charlton...or even a Tony Adams, or a Alan Shearer. The only way for England to produce such quality players on a consistent basis is fixing the problem at the grass level.
People are under the misconception that there is a lack of quality English players because the EPL is now foreign-oriented. This belief is simply not true. If English players are good enough, they will make it -- look at Rio Ferdinand, Wayne Rooney, Ashley Cole, Joe Cole, Frank Lampard, Steven Gerrard, ....and the emergence of Theo Walcott. All these players are English, and they dominate the top three clubs in England.
Now, are most of these players listed as good as England 1966? Or as good as even recent England 1996 or 1998? And are they as good as current Spain? France? Germany? Holland? -- My answer is no, they aren't as good. But that's not the point. The point is that they're good enough to make it in the big clubs in England, and they have done so.
What we learnt from Alan Hansen's 1999 mistake is that if you're good enough, you are old enough. Let's extend that to nationality now. If you're good enough, you're nationality makes no difference --> Not as catchy, but the point is just as valid.
I yearn for the day England are producing top players. I can't wait for the EPL to regain it's English identity again.
Let's be honest, though. The EPL is billed as the most competitive, entertaining league in the world. Can you not say, no matter what team you support, you haven't been stunned by the sublime skill of Thierry Henry? Can you seriously tell me that the pace and ability by Fernando Torres doesn't have you on the edge of your seat? How about the step over, flashy king of the Premiership - Cristiano Ronaldo?
The foreign players are what currently make the EPL the best league in the world. If, the far fetched/implausible aspect of this argument is irrelevant, every club was forced to play ONLY English players in the STARTING 11, it would be so boring and dull. Imagine 11 Hoytes, or 11 average-but-mood Pennant. Doesn't make for speculative viewing, does it?
Quotas at any level would limit the quality of the EPL. Foreign players, even if it means the complete elimination of every English player in the EPL, is needed. Currently anyway. And this is how the situation will stand until something is done with the training at the youth level.
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Post by MG on Feb 29, 2008 4:50:09 GMT -5
yawn, didn't read it all, but do agree that there should be a certain number of "home" players in each XI (dont know if he even made this point) But hey, England wont win a World Cup until this happens so I'm happy
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Post by feckarse on Feb 29, 2008 16:36:20 GMT -5
yawn, didn't read it all, but do agree that there should be a certain number of "home" players in each XI (dont know if he even made this point) But hey, England wont win a World Cup until this happens so I'm happy If by "home" players you're including Irish, that would definitely be a no-go... Why should they get preferential treatment than the Dutch say. 2. European employment law won't allow it. Blatter was babbling when he was trying to justify footballers as artists rather than employees. They are in my bollox. 3. Even still if it were brought in, it would just enlargen the gulf between the big 3 or 4 and the others... They'd snap up any of the good English players. And so would the transfer prices too.. They'd become ridiculous. 4. The argument seems to be that the foreign players influx is affecting the English national team. Bollox. The creme-de-la-creme (sp?) will still make it to the top, and they';; be better players if they're playing in a stronger league. When the English league was fully English in the 70s and 80s the national team did fairly poorly remember. And the 90s weren't exactly booming times either, possibly 1990 aside. 5. Why do young English players never go abroad?!
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Post by Wireless on Feb 29, 2008 16:56:50 GMT -5
The transfer prices for English players are stupid as it is.
Rio Ferdinand = £33 million (Grand total according to Wiki)
Kolo Toure = £150k (According to Wiki)
Hmmmmmmmm.........
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Post by MG on Feb 29, 2008 20:17:18 GMT -5
suppose so withthe english players, never really thought of it that way, and just remember the EU, a player from say poland could take action if refused to be employed by a team coz he is a forginer.
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Post by supersonic1983 on Mar 1, 2008 18:13:37 GMT -5
I yearn for the day England are producing top players. That quote, alone, is enough to invalidate your entire argument. But I'm going to make doubly sure. a) First and foremost, there is no problem at the grassroots level. The performance of England's U21 side in recent months (under the stewardship of Stuart Pearce, I might add) has been impeccable. Anyone who witnessed last years European Championship would know how unfortunate they were to be eliminated. b) The shortcomings of our national team can be attributed to mis-management. The FA have, for too long, allowed the side to stagnate under the stewardship of tactically inefficient managers, who fail to bring the best out of their players. On paper we are amongst the best in the world, and under Fabio Capello I believe we finally have a manager who can help the likes of Gerrard reproduce their club form on the international stage. c) You compare our current crop to the teams of 1966 and 1996, suggesting that those were superior teams with superior players. Which, frankly, is nonsense. Our Euro 1996 squad boasted such luminaries as Darren Anderton, Gareth Southgate, Nick Barmby, Steve Stone and Steve McManaman, most of whom would probably be plying their trade at Derby County in the modern Premiership. And 1966? The game was different then, and you can't use it as a basis for comparison. Especially when you were born in the late 1980's. d) The amount of foreign players over here is a reflection of the quality of our game, and the scenario is similar in Italy and Spain. These are the best leagues in the world, and it's right they contain the best players, regardless of origin. The quality of the Premiership - and subsequently, the quality of its players, Englishmen included - has improved ten-fold since its conception, largely due to the influx of foreign players. The bottom line is that, had we fulfilled our potential and won an international tournament in recent years, no-one would be blaming the foreigners for 'ruining' our game. We'd be thanking them for improving it.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2008 14:24:42 GMT -5
england have only won one competition the way people talk is though we have won year after year and all of a sudden foreign players means we have stopped winning. personally i think we have the players, just a shame that the last few managers pick the big names rather than the best team
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