|
Post by Clint on Apr 14, 2005 0:54:36 GMT -5
Well, besides Definitely Maybe. That's just perfect. (They should have kept sad song for the CD release though)
However, Morning Glory.... it was only ten songs. They could have put on one of those brilliant b-sides they had written for it. Why did they include such songs such as She's Electric and Hey Now (both ARE great songs by the way), when they had such brilliant b-sides like Talk Tonight, Acquiesce, The Masterplan, Round Are way, and such? Oh, and Bonehead's bank holiday is one of my favorite songs. That should have been on the CD version.
None the less MG was still a brilliant record.
And then there's Be Here Now, which was also a brilliant record. However, it may have been brilliant to everybody had they done these things: Conserved some b-sides from the MG days, and replaced some of the tracks on it with some b-sides. Stay Young could have been a fucking single. My Sister Lover rocks
Then there's Standing on the Shoulder of Giants. The album is truly awesome. It could have been one of their top albums if they just LEFT OFF Put Yer Money Where Yer Mouth is, and added more tracks. It was too short, and 1 track was terrible, and 2 were mediocre. The rest were great. Why the fuck did Noel put PYMWYMI instead of Let's All Make Believe or One Way Road? Insane. Could have been strong. Without PYMWYMI and those two songs I just mentioned, nobody would care that Little James and I can see a liar weren't exactly strong.
And then there's HC (which I think is their worst. There isn't many amazing songs. Like 3 or 4. The rest are just good. None are bad, but it doesn't wow me)
Personally, I think the reason is because Noel wants the singles to be worth something, and not just a track off the album with some filler material. But I don't know, I'd rather have an insanely strong album. I'm a yank and don't buy singles anyway (cost too much to import, and I don't have the cash)
|
|
|
Post by albertzz on Apr 14, 2005 1:08:23 GMT -5
I think Noel thinks he's putting out the strongest album he can and the bsides are just songs taht weren't good enough for the album - but in many cases from our viewpoint but not his they end up being better than songs on the album (though the omission of the Masterplan doesn't make much sense then)
|
|
|
Post by iamthewalrus on Apr 14, 2005 1:27:53 GMT -5
aye buyt what about acquiesce? U can't tell me noel didn't think that was astrong enough track to put on an album either...i agree with the theory of trying to make great singles (which theyt have).
|
|
|
Post by Way Cool Jr. on Apr 14, 2005 1:34:24 GMT -5
MG would have been massive regardless of the switching around of a few tracks...thats just the essence of the time
BHN was what it was, i don't think stay young or anything would have done much to change reaction to it. I know it's oversaid but the production was all that held it back(and thats just a judgment call cos most like it the way it is)
i agree about SOTSOG, add LAMB and one way road, take away a couple iffy tracks and its a masterpiece in my mind(it still is to me the best 'grower' record they have)
HC was fucked because the album and b sides werent particulary strong as a whole, adding idlers dream instead of a weak track would only help the album some, but not enough
|
|
|
Post by Elan Morin Tedronai on Apr 14, 2005 2:34:53 GMT -5
Actually, for me HC is a good record, rather than a great one. It has some great songs and overall like a complete album and entity it's very good. Yet, I don't think that the album has something so smashing or instantly chart-topping besides SCYHO and Songbird. It would be nice to put "Idler's Dream" and "Thank You For the Good Times" and these are tracks I like very much. Yet, I think that the record isn't great and has this has nothing to do with tracklisting.
|
|
|
Post by Way Cool Jr. on Apr 14, 2005 2:42:39 GMT -5
Actually, for me HC is a good record, rather than a great one. It has some great songs and overall like a complete album and entity it's very good. Yet, I don't think that the album has something so smashing or instantly chart-topping besides SCYHO and Songbird. It would be nice to put "Idler's Dream" and "Thank You For the Good Times" and these are tracks I like very much. Yet, I think that the record isn't great and has this has nothing to do with tracklisting. i forgot about TYFTGT, that could have replaced all in the mind(even though i really dig marr's solo) it's liams voice that's necessary
|
|
|
Post by Eggy on Apr 14, 2005 2:54:17 GMT -5
if all in the mind was replaced by 3 minutes of silence it wouldve been a slightly better album
god that song sucks (imo)
|
|
|
Post by jajatisalgoe on Apr 14, 2005 3:49:41 GMT -5
.....their top albums if they just LEFT OFF Put Yer Money Where Yer Mouth is, and added more tracks... What's fokkin wrong with Put Yer Money where yer mouth is it's kicking
|
|
|
Post by Noel's Barmy Army on Apr 14, 2005 5:10:03 GMT -5
And then there's Be Here Now, which was also a brilliant record. However, it may have been brilliant to everybody had they done these things: Conserved some b-sides from the MG days, and replaced some of the tracks on it with some b-sides. Stay Young could have been a fucking single. My Sister Lover rocks some genius on this forum suggested Oasis release a Be Here....Naked - all the songs stripped of their over-production. Thats a brilliant idea cos there are some beautiful songs on BHN PYMWYMI, Little James and ICSAL on an album? I'd have put LAMB, Full On, (ALATG) Cigarettes In Hell and Just Gettin Older on SOTSG
|
|
|
Post by peregrin on Apr 14, 2005 7:34:10 GMT -5
if all in the mind was replaced by 3 minutes of silence it wouldve been a slightly better album god that song sucks (imo) 5 minutes including she is love
|
|
|
Post by Elias on Apr 14, 2005 8:24:57 GMT -5
I think the first three albums and b-sides are perfect as they are. It's what made Oasis so amazing in the first 4-5 years. The quality of the output IMO is un-rivalled.
SOTSOG era was a real lull in songwriting for me, only LAMB could have made any difference.
HC is where my real gripe is. I just don't get the choice of track-listing. HC is a collection of songs, the main thing I don't like about that album now is that there is no flow to it at all. It's hard to describe really, as I say, to me it's just a collection of songs. Therefore there is no reason to leave off obviously stronger songs like SIOL and ID. IMO a track-listing of:
1 - Hindu Times 2 - Hung In A Bad Place 3 - Better Man 4 - Stop Crying Your Heart Out 5 - Shout It Out Loud 6 - Songbird 7 - Little By Little 8 - A Quick Peep 9 - (Probably) All In The Mind 10 - Idler's Dream 11 - Born On A Different Cloud 12 - Thankyou For The Good Times
would have been superb, and probably the best album of 2002.
|
|
|
Post by Moorish on Apr 14, 2005 8:35:36 GMT -5
I definitely think that a stronger track selection on some of the albums would have done a world of good. DM is brilliant and where Noel did best in his song selection.
(WTS)MG? is almost perfect song-wise I think, the only change I would suggest is that Acquiesce should have been the opening track. Imagine that - the acoustic version of Morning Glory comes in and then BANG! off we go into a huge rock anthem. Is better than Hello.
BHN and SOTSOG are the two worst examples of bad track selection, although as someone said above BHN was hampered by the over-production. But songs like My Big Mouth, which is just a wall of noise, and I Hope, I Think, I Know, whihc is pretty pedestrian tune by Oasis standards, should have come off. I would have used Stay Young instead of My Big Mouth and saved The Masterplan to be the final song on the album, coming in as the reprise of All Around The World fades away (like A Day In The Life on Sgt Pepper - magic!)
SOTSOG I think should have had Let's All Make Believe on it instead of I Can See A Liar . It's one of the very best vocals Liam has ever done and a great tune. PYMWYMI is agood tune but would have been better if Noel had actually bothered to write a second verse. On HC I would have put Idler's Dream on there because it's fantastic, rather than filler stuff like A Quick Peep.
A Be Here Now...Naked album is a fantastic idea!
|
|
wash25
Oasis Roadie
Posts: 335
|
Post by wash25 on Apr 14, 2005 11:44:59 GMT -5
SOTSOG was terrible. FITB over LAMB? Etc., etc.
|
|
|
Post by skinneek on Apr 14, 2005 12:02:36 GMT -5
For the record, I will never understand how Noel allowed Little James to appear on an Oasis album.
|
|
|
Post by Clint on Apr 14, 2005 13:51:00 GMT -5
Yeah it was Liam wanting to sound really smart it seemed by saying stuff like "it won't be long before everyone is gone"
If the whole song had innocent lyrics it would have been good.
Oh, and for the record, I love the over-produced sound of Be Here Now.
|
|
|
Post by nyr401994 on Apr 14, 2005 15:27:16 GMT -5
I think Noel thinks he's putting out the strongest album he can and the bsides are just songs taht weren't good enough for the album - but in many cases from our viewpoint but not his they end up being better than songs on the album (though the omission of the Masterplan doesn't make much sense then) most of their b-sides couldn't fit the time alloted for a cd, or didn't flow with the rest of the album.
|
|
|
Post by Clint on Apr 14, 2005 17:56:53 GMT -5
A lot of them surely could. A CD in 1994 could hold 74 minutes of music, and now it's 80.
Definitely Maybe's about 50
Morning Glory's about 50
Be Here Now -- they about maxed it out with that one
SOSOG - is about 47 minutes
Heathen Chemistry is about 47.
|
|
|
Post by djlen74 on Apr 15, 2005 5:43:17 GMT -5
I believe that WTSMG was made to listen from beginning to end, but I don't feel thta's the case with BHN.
Has anyone noticed how long the songs are on BHN? Most of the songs on WTSMG are a lot shorter.
One of the things that I feel makes WTSMG one of the Top 100 albums in the history of The Rock Era is the fact that after listening to the record about a half a million times, I still hear something new everytime I listen to it. Maybe a background vocal that wasn't there before, or maye a hidden meaning to a lyric. Isn't it amazing what a band can do when they're all fucked up on drugs LMAO! (As was the case with the Beatles!)
I see WTSMG as almost a rock opera, It is BEGGING to be listened to from beginning to end. One of the main reasons for this is The first few chords of Wonderwall hit you the instant you throw the disc on... and then a couple songs later, there it is. And there's The Swamp Song, Which pops up out of nowhere in the middle of the disc, and then, right before Champagne Supernova, there it is again, but somewhat different... I still think there is a hidden meaning to that instrumental, but I haven't figured it out yet. And with CS, what a way to close.
I think with BHN, Noel tried too hard to duplicate the magic of WTSMG, and tried to make a WHOLE RECORD full of anthems, like CS. (Hence all the long songs). He almost had it with All Around The World, it's a great song, but it doesn't have the same effect. After hearing CS for the first time (the ALBUM cut, not the crappy radio version that faded out during the yeaaah yeahhhhhs), I sat there completely drained and utterly wanting MORE. BLOOOOOOOOWN AWAY. After hearing AATW for the first time, I was like, "Cool song".
By the time SOTSOG rolled around, I think Noel was like, "Fuck it, mates. Let's try something else." And we all know how THAT turned out. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE SOTSOG, is full of great songs, but as a WHOLE, they just don't add up. But as I said, unlike most people, I thought SOTSOG has KILLER tunes, I was cleaning my car yesterday and had Sunday Morning Call CRANKED, man that orchestra during the bridge is AWESOME.
I think on HC, they tried to get back to the basics, shorter songs, but the album was flawed. Let me explain.
The quality of the songs, unlike SOTSOG, was just not that GOOD. The Hindu Times was a great song to start out with, but you didn't have that signature Hello, or Fucking In The Bushes preceeding it. Songs like Force Of Nature, Hung In A Bad Place, Better Man, they are all "good" songs, but they are FORGETTABLE. It is by design that Noel put the albums three strongest tracks together right in the middle of the album: Stop Crying Your Heart Out, Songbird, and Little By Little... to make people forget about Force Of Nature and Hung In A Bad Place, and to hopefully keep people on a high when they have to sit through the rest of the album. And even though Idler's Dream and You've Got The Heart Of A Star were soft songs, so what?? They are surely a lot better than All In The Mind and Born On A Different Cloud. I thought A Quick Peep was a decent little number. And actually I think that having Idler's Dream as the last track would have been a class way to finish the album.
With all that being said, bring on Don't Believe The Truth! I'm THIRSTY for it!
|
|
|
Post by Moorish on Apr 15, 2005 5:53:57 GMT -5
Idler's Dream would have been a great way to end HC, without doubt. Just like The Masterplan would have been the best way to finish Be Here Now. But thanks to the magic of computers you can edit your own version of the album with Idler's Dream on the end if you like!
|
|
|
Post by SlideAway on Apr 15, 2005 17:32:50 GMT -5
Even though I'm an American fan I do like that the group had great b-sides. That was part of their appeal. So it doesn't really bother me that some of their best songs went onto their singles (really EPs) rather than albums. I just wish those EP's were more released in America.
I also think Oasis quite wisely limit their albums to about 10-12 songs. A lot of great bands overdo it. The Red Hot Chili Peppers for instance. Great band. But their albums go on and on. Too many bands try to cram every song onto the CD. It's a bad idea unless you're going for a full double album in which case it can be more like a collage.
Anyway, if we are redoing Oasis albums, here's how I think they should've been:
Definitely Maybe
1. Rock n' Roll Star 2. Up in the Sky (slower) 3. Live Forever 4. Columbia 5. Fade Away 6. Sad Song 7. Supersonic 8. Bring it on Down 9. Cigarettes & Alcohol 10. Slide Away 11. Married With Children
Shakermaker and Digsy's Diner, and Strange Thing should've been b-sides IMO
(What's the Story) Morning Glory?
1. Acquiesce 2. Round Are Way (go against "Country House") 3. Wonderwall 4. Don't Look Back in Anger 5. Underneath the Sky 6. Rockin' Chair 7. Bonehead's Bank Holiday! 8. Some Might Say 9. The Master Plan 10. Morning Glory 11. (untitled) 12. Champagne Supernova
Roll With It, Cast No Shadow, Hello, She's Electric, and Hey Now could've been b-sides
Be Here Now - whole thing less overproduced
1. D'You Know What I Mean? (1 minute shorter) 2. My Big Mouth (maybe (I Got) the Fever or My Sister Lover instead) 3. Stand By Me - done folksy acoustic 4. Going Nowhere 5. Angel Child - completed, with a light string, organ, or piano accompaniment, and Liam and Noel sharing vocals 6. Don't Go Away 7. Stay Young 8. Flashbax 9. All Around the World - 3 minutes shorter and done in a different style. They'd already done the big Beatles-esque orchestral thing before, so why not try a "You Can't Always Get What You Want"-style arrangement?) 10. It's Getting Better, Man! - 1 minute shorter 11. All Around the World (reprise) 12. Slow - obviously, I've never heard this song, but if it's really as different and as beautiful as Alan McGee and Noel have said (and they've mentioned it since '97) it might have been a great way to end the album. After the bombast of AATW and It's Getting Better, Man, finish with a soft, slow unassuming and beautiful ballad.
Standing on the Shoulder of Giants 1. F*ckin' in the Bushes 2. Go Let it Out 3. Who Feels Love? (shorter) 4. Cigarettes in Hell (finished, Noel on vox) 5. Revolution Song (Liam on vocals) 6. Where did it All Go Wrong? 7. Gas Panic! 8. Sunday Morning Call - acoustic, maybe Liam on vox 9. Let's All Make Believe 10. Roll it Over
Heathen Chemistry
1. The Hindu Times 2. Hung in a Bad Place 3. Stop Crying Your Heart Out 4. Thank You For the Good Times 5. (You've Got) the Heart of a Star 6. Songbird 7. Idler's Dream 8. Little By Little 9. Shout it Out Loud 10. Born on a Different Cloud 11. Better Man
|
|
|
Post by Moorish on Apr 17, 2005 12:27:10 GMT -5
Well thought out Slideaway, I like the way you've considered some of your choices. I think that The Masterplan should DEFINITELY have been on Be Here Now (fulfilling the role you have allotted for Slow at the end of the record), and I don't garee with all your choices, but on the whole I think that's a pretty good selection.
I LOVE the idea of a You Can't Always Get What You Want style arrangement for All Around The World - that would have been great!
|
|
|
Post by meaningofsoul on Apr 17, 2005 13:00:28 GMT -5
My thoughts (album by album) on what to have removed: Definitely Maybe: Take off Digsy's Dinner WTSMG: Don't bother messing with it Be Here Now: Take off Magic Pie, Girl in Dirty Shirt (btw- I love the pomp and snobber of the AATW reprise!) Standing on Shoulder of Giants: Little James, Money where Mouth is, and See a Liar all gotta go Heathen Chemistry: Scrap Force of Nature, All in the Mind (and A Quick Peep is awesome but does NOT count as a song- its an untitled like the Swamp Song excerpts!)
|
|