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Post by Noel's Barmy Army on Apr 15, 2005 5:50:22 GMT -5
I delieve the WMD's are buried in the desert between Syria and Lebanon. There was much activity involving many trucks going back and forth from Iraq to this area weeks bf america and its allies launched its campaign. There is much evidence to support this theory. And I don't know where all you responders are from but there was intelligence from many countries that supported evidence of these weapons. So to say NONE exist or existed is ignorant. is that why the UK and US have officially abandoned the search for them? if they were there. they would go get them and parade them in front of the world. at the very least they would want to stop them from falling into "wrong" hands. which was one other reason why they went in...cos Iraq was supposedly dealing with al-qaeda. "fictitious war for fictitious reasons"
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2005 7:42:45 GMT -5
damn guys i thought i was a dog with a bone this is a neverendin debate
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Post by lionsden® on Apr 15, 2005 8:28:35 GMT -5
A relative of Syrian President Bashar Assad is hiding Iraqi weapons of mass destruction in three locations in Syria, according to intelligence sources cited by an exiled opposition party.
The weapons were smuggled in large wooden crates and barrels by Zu Alhema al-Shaleesh, known for moving arms into Iraq in violation of U.N. resolutions and for sending recruits to fight coalition forces, said the U.S.-based Reform Party of Syria.
The party, based in Potomac, Md., regards itself as a secular body comprised of Syrians who want to see the country embrace "real democratic and economic reforms."
One weapons-cache location identified by the sources is a mountain tunnel near the village of al-Baidah in northwest Syria, the report said. The tunnel is known to house a branch of the Assad regime's national security apparatus.
Two other arms supplies are reported to be in west-central Syria. One is hidden at a factory operated by the Syrian Air Force, near the village of Tal Snan, between the cities of Hama and Salmiyeh. The third location is tunnels beneath the small town of Shinshar, which belongs to the 661 battalion of the Syrian Air Force.
The nephew of Zu Alhema al-Shaleesh, Assef al-Shaleesh, runs Al Bashair Trading Co., a front for the Assad family involved prior to the war in oil smuggling from Iraq and arms smuggling into the country. Al-Bashair has offices in Damascus, Beirut and Baghdad.
In an exclusive interview yesterday with the London Telegraph, Assad came close to admitting his country possessed stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction.
He said Israel must agree to abandon its undeclared nuclear arsenal in order for Syria to consider any deal with the U.S.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2005 8:29:58 GMT -5
A relative of Syrian President Bashar Assad is hiding Iraqi weapons of mass destruction in three locations in Syria, according to intelligence sources cited by an exiled opposition party. The weapons were smuggled in large wooden crates and barrels by Zu Alhema al-Shaleesh, known for moving arms into Iraq in violation of U.N. resolutions and for sending recruits to fight coalition forces, said the U.S.-based Reform Party of Syria. The party, based in Potomac, Md., regards itself as a secular body comprised of Syrians who want to see the country embrace "real democratic and economic reforms." One weapons-cache location identified by the sources is a mountain tunnel near the village of al-Baidah in northwest Syria, the report said. The tunnel is known to house a branch of the Assad regime's national security apparatus. Two other arms supplies are reported to be in west-central Syria. One is hidden at a factory operated by the Syrian Air Force, near the village of Tal Snan, between the cities of Hama and Salmiyeh. The third location is tunnels beneath the small town of Shinshar, which belongs to the 661 battalion of the Syrian Air Force. The nephew of Zu Alhema al-Shaleesh, Assef al-Shaleesh, runs Al Bashair Trading Co., a front for the Assad family involved prior to the war in oil smuggling from Iraq and arms smuggling into the country. Al-Bashair has offices in Damascus, Beirut and Baghdad. In an exclusive interview yesterday with the London Telegraph, Assad came close to admitting his country possessed stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction. He said Israel must agree to abandon its undeclared nuclear arsenal in order for Syria to consider any deal with the U.S. dog with bone squared ;D
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Post by monkey man on Apr 15, 2005 9:01:11 GMT -5
One should question a Syrian exile as a source. Firstly they harbour grudges against the current regime which might motivate them to propogate spurious claims.
If the claims come from an exiled POLITICAL PARTY then the information should be taken with more than a pinch of salt, namely that the aforementioned party has a vested interest in discrediting the regime. With US relations already somewhat sour towards the Syrian regime, it is understandable that exiled nationals may want to inflame relations further.
Also: If the threat of the use of WMD was the reason for going to war then surely the Syrian proposition is a self defeating point - WMD is not a threat if the weapons themselves are buried in the Syrian desert are they.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2005 9:11:06 GMT -5
to think this thread started by a innocent quote about how noel was voting ..did not know we had so many members of parliment and the senate here guys its a OASIS forum even my rants against certain members were based on OASIS opinions not this political crap ,save this for a U2 FORUM where bono will appreciate it and like minded fans
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Post by lionsden® on Apr 15, 2005 9:48:59 GMT -5
One should question a Syrian exile as a source. Firstly they harbour grudges against the current regime which might motivate them to propogate spurious claims. If the claims come from an exiled POLITICAL PARTY then the information should be taken with more than a pinch of salt, namely that the aforementioned party has a vested interest in discrediting the regime. With US relations already somewhat sour towards the Syrian regime, it is understandable that exiled nationals may want to inflame relations further. Also: If the threat of the use of WMD was the reason for going to war then surely the Syrian proposition is a self defeating point - WMD is not a threat if the weapons themselves are buried in the Syrian desert are they. Thats where the evidence started. We have satelitle photos of this activity from that time. I'll dig them up and post em if you want
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wash25
Oasis Roadie
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Post by wash25 on Apr 15, 2005 12:25:32 GMT -5
Well, I do NOT necessary believe that they went into Iraq to "spread democracy."
But the "THEY WENT IN FOR OIL" argument is probably one of the more absurd conspiracy theories ever-- I mean, LOL, it's right up there with us not having really landed on the moon.
EXHIBIT A:
Iraq was producing MORE oil, prior to the invasion, than after it!
EXHIBIT B:
Since the invasion, oil prices have skyrocketted (in large part due to demand outstripping supply, so, see exhibit A), and as a result, George W. Bush is taking a tremendous beating politically, and the U.S. is hurting economically.
EXHIBIT C:
EX A & B have hurt George W. Bush politically and financially, and they have hurt the U.S. economically.
So just think about it honestly for 1 second.
If the U.S. main concern was oil, then they wouldn't have toppled Saddam Hussein, they would have lifted the sanctions on him! They would've become best friends with him.
In doing so, they could've cut a sweet deal, gotten tons of oil, lowered gas prices, and helped a troubled U.S. economy, aaaaaaaaaall of which, would have greatly helped George W. Bush, politically and financially.
Do you get it?
Invading Iraq = bad for Bush politically and bad for the U.S. economically.
Keeping Saddam in power and lifting the sanctions = aside from possible increased funding for terrorists and terrorist regimes, good for Bush politically and great for the U.S. economically.
Thus, the "THEY WENT IN FOR OIL" argument is retarded.
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wash25
Oasis Roadie
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Post by wash25 on Apr 15, 2005 12:34:56 GMT -5
Uh, can I just add this? Cuz really, say what you want about Bush, he is pretty slow, and he is for tax cuts for the rich.
But about the oil...
OIL IS FOR SALE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
SADDAM WAS SELLING OIL BEFORE THE INVASION, HE WOULD'VE SOLD MORE IF HE WAS LEFT IN POWER, AND HE WOULD'VE SOLD A LOT MORE IF THE SANCTIONS WERE LIFTED.
THEY DIDN'T HAVE TO SPEND $1 TRILLION+ ($$$ for military operations, reconstruction, and what all the years of uncertainty cost the U.S. economically) TO GET OIL! HELLO??? THEY COULD'VE JUST BOUGHT IT.
Invading Iraq only REDUCED the oil available to America.
So again...war for oil = retarded.
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Post by albertzz on Apr 15, 2005 13:10:45 GMT -5
ok, admittedly if it were just should we spend 1 trillion invading to get some oil contracts for our cmpanies and more access to oil then no clearly it's not but I don't think anyone's arguing that's the ONLY reason if it were the ONLY reason then yes it's retarded. HOWEVER even if it is retarded that doesn't mean that's not why they went in. Why? because people can be retarded and illogical. (I need not stress this pint, for if Bush ACTUALLY thought this was the best way to fight terror or whatever then yes, I think he is retarded) That being said I think it is A reason, I mena if you've decided to go in, the fact that in the future you can have oil contracts woiuldn't hurt
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Post by lionsden® on Apr 15, 2005 13:51:54 GMT -5
ok, admittedly if it were just should we spend 1 trillion invading to get some oil contracts for our cmpanies and more access to oil then no clearly it's not but I don't think anyone's arguing that's the ONLY reason if it were the ONLY reason then yes it's retarded. HOWEVER even if it is retarded that doesn't mean that's not why they went in. Why? because people can be retarded and illogical. (I need not stress this pint, for if Bush ACTUALLY thought this was the best way to fight terror or whatever then yes, I think he is retarded) That being said I think it is A reason, I mena if you've decided to go in, the fact that in the future you can have oil contracts woiuldn't hurt What you just just is the stupidest, most insanly idiotic thing I have ever heard. At no moment in time in your rambling did you make any sense whatsoever. All of us are now dumber for having listened to it ;D
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Post by Clint on Apr 15, 2005 14:01:32 GMT -5
damn guys i thought i was a dog with a bone this is a neverendin debate Exactly. The man is right. So let's end it. The fact is that everybody thinks they're a genius at politics, and they're all too stubborn to point out if the other side has made a good point. This is an Oasis forum guys. We got wayyyyyyy off topic. Seriously, I gave my views-- but now I'm going to shut up because I'm not going to change anybody's views on the Iraq War. If you hate it, it doesn't matter, it's still going to be fought. If you're for it, than that's good then. However, what the hell are you guys accomplsihing by debating on it?
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Post by albertzz on Apr 15, 2005 14:30:17 GMT -5
What you just just is the stupidest, most insanly idiotic thing I have ever heard. At no moment in time in your rambling did you make any sense whatsoever. All of us are now dumber for having listened to it ;D You're right that didn't make much sense. What I meant was that 1. wash25 is right that it couldn't be the only reason for going in 2. HOWEVER the fact that it is illogical to invade a country for oil (b/c it's counterproductive)- doesn't mean that they won't do it - it's also illogical to fight terror in the wrong places but that doesn't mean they won't do it 3. b/c of #2, I think it was ONE of the reasons NOT the ONLY reason, but the fact that they could get oil contracts out of it didn't hurt
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Post by Noel's Barmy Army on Apr 15, 2005 17:54:01 GMT -5
A relative of Syrian President Bashar Assad is hiding Iraqi weapons of mass destruction in three locations in Syria, according to intelligence sources cited by an exiled opposition party. The weapons were smuggled in large wooden crates and barrels by Zu Alhema al-Shaleesh, known for moving arms into Iraq in violation of U.N. resolutions and for sending recruits to fight coalition forces, said the U.S.-based Reform Party of Syria. The party, based in Potomac, Md., regards itself as a secular body comprised of Syrians who want to see the country embrace "real democratic and economic reforms." One weapons-cache location identified by the sources is a mountain tunnel near the village of al-Baidah in northwest Syria, the report said. The tunnel is known to house a branch of the Assad regime's national security apparatus. Two other arms supplies are reported to be in west-central Syria. One is hidden at a factory operated by the Syrian Air Force, near the village of Tal Snan, between the cities of Hama and Salmiyeh. The third location is tunnels beneath the small town of Shinshar, which belongs to the 661 battalion of the Syrian Air Force. The nephew of Zu Alhema al-Shaleesh, Assef al-Shaleesh, runs Al Bashair Trading Co., a front for the Assad family involved prior to the war in oil smuggling from Iraq and arms smuggling into the country. Al-Bashair has offices in Damascus, Beirut and Baghdad. In an exclusive interview yesterday with the London Telegraph, Assad came close to admitting his country possessed stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction. He said Israel must agree to abandon its undeclared nuclear arsenal in order for Syria to consider any deal with the U.S. do you remember how many iraqi exiles came out of the woodwork and said Saddam had this, that and the other and was planning this, that and the other? they all had three things in common 1) they all wanted saddam out 2) they all wanted power for themselves 3) they were all liars u can bet all the oil in the world (lol) that is the same thing with all this syrian fella. the US is shouting an waving a big stick at syria and this vulture smells power. we've seen it all before. but bring on the satelite photos
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wash25
Oasis Roadie
Posts: 335
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Post by wash25 on Apr 15, 2005 18:51:50 GMT -5
Ok, just think about this:
There was an infinitley cheaper way to get oil and oil contracts. All the U.S. had to do to get tons of oil and tons of oil contracts was to lift the sanctions on Saddam (they could've even done it w/ out lifting the sanctions, just ask France and Russia).
So here are some other possible motivations:
1. Spreading democracy (and that may or may not be a retarded idea).
2. Control and influence the Middle East from Iraq (as a political and military base).
3. Use Iraq as a base of operations from which to carry out attacks against Iran, Syria, Yemen, etc.
Any of those are plausible, and more importantly, Bush can still be an evil person if the answer is #2 or #3 (which I know is important to a lot of people).
All I am saying is that it cannot be oil. The oil theory is completely absurd for reasons already stated.
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Post by albertzz on Apr 15, 2005 18:57:13 GMT -5
go to the post before yours and read my #2
- ie - the fact that it's illogical doesn't mean it's not a motivation - just as the fact taht out of all 16 US led attempts to build democracies all but four (germany and japan -d eveloped) and 2 samll latin american countries have failed - so it is unlikely to succeed in a place with no prior history of it, ethnci conflicts etc, DIDn't stop the US from thinking it was a good idea
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Post by Noel's Barmy Army on Apr 15, 2005 19:01:25 GMT -5
Ok, just think about this: There was an infinitley cheaper way to get oil and oil contracts. All the U.S. had to do to get tons of oil and tons of oil contracts was to lift the sanctions on Saddam (they could've even done it w/ out lifting the sanctions, just ask France and Russia). So here are some other possible motivations: 1. Spreading democracy (and that may or may not be a retarded idea). 2. Control and influence the Middle East from Iraq (as a political and military base). 3. Use Iraq as a base of operations from which to carry out attacks against Iran, Syria, Yemen, etc. Any of those are plausible, and more importantly, Bush can still be an evil person if the answer is #2 or #3 (which I know is important to a lot of people). All I am saying is that it cannot be oil. The oil theory is completely absurd for reasons already stated. control over the output of oil from the country with the 2nd largest oil reserves in the world was a sweetener. with saudi towing the line, america has guaranteed itself as much oil as it needs for the next 65-75 yrs - and u can't put a price on that. but i agree to that it wasnt the only reason. iraq is so important geo-politically to the interests of US policy in the middle-east and to Israel too. Iraq could have been the regional superpower and Israel would not have liked that. With Iraq clearly no longer a threat, Israeli supremacy in the middle east is assured - and they have the upper hand in bargaining with the palestinians. (no intention of bringing the matter of israel's existence into the debate cos it aint an issue) America is the empire unable to call itself one.
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wash25
Oasis Roadie
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Post by wash25 on Apr 15, 2005 19:28:34 GMT -5
Uh.......................your post makes no sense.
Oil is for sale. Saddam would have been more than happy sell us oil (in fact, he was selling us oil, before, and by extention, during sanctions).
The only time we stopped getting oil was when we invaded.
So your 75 years thing-- ya-- absolutely no sense. If there is oil on this planet 75 years from now, you can rest assured that it will be for sale, regardless of who is or isn't invaded.
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh right here we go. It's the Jews. Of course. It's kind of fitting that your nonsensical post would end in Jewish conspiracy theories.
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Post by Noel's Barmy Army on Apr 15, 2005 19:50:51 GMT -5
Uh.......................your post makes no sense. Oil is for sale. Saddam would have been more than happy sell us oil (in fact, he was selling us oil, before, and by extention, during sanctions). The only time we stopped getting oil was when we invaded. So your 75 years thing-- ya-- absolutely no sense. If there is oil on this planet 75 years from now, you can rest assured that it will be for sale, regardless of who is or isn't invaded. Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh right here we go. It's the Jews. Of course. It's kind of fitting that your nonsensical post would end in Jewish conspiracy theories. get yourself a pen and paper to take notes, cos it's time for a little education for you. From The National Center for Policy Analysis "the world’s oil supply will not be exhausted until the year 2056." if the world slows down it's comsumption it could last longer...so 65-75 years seems reasonable. www.ncpa.org/pub/bg/bg159/bg159.pdfand I believe I said "(no intention of bringing the matter of israel's existence into the debate cos it aint an issue)" hardly anti-semitic is it? I presume you have no idea of the anomosity that exists between Iraq and Israel do you? (get yourself a new pen and paper) Back in the 50's, Iraq expelled all the Jews from Iraq, they mostly ended up in Israel. In the 80's, Israel bombed an Iraqi nuclear facility In the Gulf War, Iraq rained down 41 scud missiles on Israel. Israel stated it would assasinate Saddam in revenge - they actually managed to kill two of his look-a-likes that Saddam employed. For years, Saddam has portrayed himself as a modern day Nebuchednezzer. Nebuchednezzer kicked out all the Jews from Jerusalem many years ago. You see what Saddams intentions were? Saddam gave $25,000 to the families of Palestinian suicide bombers and gave the Palestinian resistance financial backing. With Arafat and Saddam gone, the Israeli's and Palestinians are closer to peace than they have been in so long. A peace will remove the anomosity between the arabs and jews which will bring lasting peace to the middle east. Can you see why Israel is more than fucking happy to see the back of Saddam?
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Post by nyr401994 on Apr 15, 2005 21:57:16 GMT -5
Iraq could have been the regional superpower and Israel would not have liked that. With Iraq clearly no longer a threat, Israeli supremacy in the middle east is assured - and they have the upper hand in bargaining with the palestinians. how can Israel have the upper hand in TRADING with the palestinians when every country around Israel is ganging up on them? if you didn't notice (or if you were stuck in a box since 1948), Israel is surrounded by countries that try many times to blow up civilians in the most disgusting, uncivilized and cowardly manner? i have visited Israel on two occasions: in august 2000, and august 2004. i went to different 'kibbutzes' (which resemble farms) that were right on the border of syria and lebanon (israel is about the size of new jersey). each time i went to a border, i saw the green hamas flag waving on the other side. so don't say they're closer to peace, even with saddam and arafat gone.
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Post by nyr401994 on Apr 15, 2005 22:01:00 GMT -5
and by the way, if anybody has anything anti-semetic or racist to say, they'll have to deal with me. i warned you.
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Post by nyr401994 on Apr 15, 2005 22:01:32 GMT -5
except kalas of course, he can whoop my candy ass ;D but we're nyc united
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Post by nyr401994 on Apr 15, 2005 22:04:37 GMT -5
Iraq could have been the regional superpower and Israel would not have liked that. not with saddam... no chance in hell sorry to burst your bubble
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Post by nyr401994 on Apr 15, 2005 22:06:49 GMT -5
In the Gulf War, Iraq rained down 41 scud missiles on Israel. Israel stated it would assasinate Saddam in revenge - they actually managed to kill two of his look-a-likes that Saddam employed. by the way, sorry to burst your bubble again, but israel did not take revenge in any way, shape or form concerning iraq's cowardly attacks. and i would like to see your source on your latter comment
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Post by mape on Apr 15, 2005 22:39:07 GMT -5
how can Israel have the upper hand in TRADING with the palestinians not in trading, but as in leverage to have their way with the palestinians because they got no political leader backing them anymore with saddam gone. and i would like to see your source on your latter comment www.cbc.ca/stories/2003/12/16/israel_saddam031216
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