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Post by webm@ster on Jul 25, 2007 18:26:49 GMT -5
it's getting sort of hopeless.
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Post by Guigs on Jul 25, 2007 22:20:43 GMT -5
Instead of doing random testing, they should test everyone. It is getting harder to catch the new performance enhancing drugs, but sports are getting ridiculous now with all the allegations that ar popping up.
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Post by caro on Jul 26, 2007 2:37:37 GMT -5
boycott the tour!!!!! when they have no more TV contracts and sponsors they might consider adopting sportive attitudes and it's gonna stop being a chemistry competition, i.e. who has the best and most undetectable drug injected!
german TV has taken a good step!!! i'm sick to see it on TV all day long year after year whereas is a simulacre of a sportive event!
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Post by Iliad ♣ on Jul 26, 2007 13:15:32 GMT -5
That would be the most stupid action to make. Boycotting important cycling races would destroy the sport.
It's funny to see how people now suddenly attack cycling, while ignoring the fact that doping is a problem just as big in other sports. During the tour, how many riders got positive results after doping tests? Only 3: Vinoukorov, Sinkewitz and Moreni (rasmussen got kicked out of his team because he lied to the team managers - het got 14 doping test and all of them were negative).
So that's only 3 from the +/- 200 riders that participate(d) in the tour. 1-3% is also the average amount of doping users in other sports (athletics probably even higher). The difference is that cycling has got a bad name when it comes to doping, and the media are more than willing to accuse riders (like "l'equipe" destroyed Floyd Landis - probably undeserved: why else would he spend all his money to clear up his name?)
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Post by feckarse on Jul 26, 2007 13:27:06 GMT -5
Instead of doing random testing, they should test everyone. It is getting harder to catch the new performance enhancing drugs, but sports are getting ridiculous now with all the allegations that ar popping up. Nice idea. But Utterly impractical, and extremely expensive.
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Post by feckarse on Jul 26, 2007 13:34:35 GMT -5
That would be the most stupid action to make. Boycotting important cycling races would destroy the sport. It's funny to see how people now suddenly attack cycling, while ignoring the fact that doping is a problem just as big in other sports. During the tour, how many riders got positive results after doping tests? Only 3: Vinoukorov, Sinkewitz and Moreni (rasmussen got kicked out of his team because he lied to the team managers - het got 14 doping test and all of them were negative). So that's only 3 from the +/- 200 riders that participate(d) in the tour. 1-3% is also the average amount of doping users in other sports (athletics probably even higher). The difference is that cycling has got a bad name when it comes to doping, and the media are more than willing to accuse riders (like "l'equipe" destroyed Floyd Landis - probably undeserved: why else would he spend all his money to clear up his name?) Not true, cycling is the dirtiest. I'm not having a swipe, nor am I saying other sports are clean, but cycling is widely known as being the dirtiest sport going. It's also one of the most physically demanding, and those two points are not mutually exclusive. Lots of "dirty" cyclists (and athletes for that matter) also pass drug tests. Drug tests do not confirm that you're clean, they can only identify beyond any doubt that you're definitely dirty. And there is a big difference. The reason for this is legal. They will not accuse you if they have any doubt. The only way people ever get off after a failed drug test is on a technicality (which great lengths are gone to to avoid, hence there are very few successfully appealed failed drug tests) Seasoned dopers are expert at timing of when they drug up. They know when they are more likely to be tested, they know how long they can have the effect of the drug in their body as they build muscle etc and would show up in a test etc. As for thinking Floyd Landis is clean - ;D Undeserved? When he failed his test, his testosterone:epitestosterone level was 11:1. The average person is about 1:1, athletes can naturally get up to 2:1 or even in some cases 3:1. I think the limit for failed drug test is 4:1 (it used to be 6:1, think it changed though). There's not a remote chance his body produced that naturally. Everything he was saying after was purely PR, he was never going to get off. And don't get me started on Lance Armstrong... (although I do consider him an incredible athlete, and he was coming back from cancer in against generally filthy competitors. Let's just call it a level playing field, except that he had to battle cancer as well. His Tour de France victories are still amazing)
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Post by caro on Jul 26, 2007 15:26:57 GMT -5
i agree with feck i live in france and i certainly hear much more about the tour than most of you and every year it's the same story DOPING where's the sport? where's the performance? where are the values attached to sports? no sport is as associated to drugs as cycling dont even get me started on the autocratic system that exists inside the teams other teams members are there just to make one guy look good they'll never have a chance to prove themselves there's no sport or honesty in this competition this is sickening and boring
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Post by webm@ster on Jul 26, 2007 16:41:41 GMT -5
Feck, do you have an idea what the testosterone boost does for an athlete. I have yet to hear an explaination why Landis would have overdosed on testosterone for just that one mountain stage, wasn't he clean when he tested earlier in the same tour....I heard some doctors say testosterone does not have an immediate effect on your performance and would not be a cyclists preferred boost drug ? cheers
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Post by feckarse on Jul 26, 2007 18:42:12 GMT -5
Feck, do you have an idea what the testosterone boost does for an athlete. I have yet to hear an explaination why Landis would have overdosed on testosterone for just that one mountain stage, wasn't he clean when he tested earlier in the same tour....I heard some doctors say testosterone does not have an immediate effect on your performance and would not be a cyclists preferred boost drug ? cheers While I do know more than the average Joe, I will put my hands up and admit I'm no expert. As to Landis, while I can't comment on what testosterone does to you with regards to an immediate effect, I can comment that it's not unreasonable to believe that his "testosterone was high" for some time, except only at this point could they make anything stick. (When you comment "overdosed for just one stage" - this is the difference I referred to above. A test will never prove "someone is clean" rather (presuming a "clear result") it can only state "it can't be proven they're dirty" - it's quite possible his tests earlier in the tour were very questionable - this is not a black & white area!.) The immediate question that pops to my mind though, is that if it didn't make that much a difference, why did he have so much in his system in the middle of a Tour??! Good question though, I'll follow it up next time I speak with the experts!
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Post by webm@ster on Jul 26, 2007 20:45:47 GMT -5
Feck, do you have an idea what the testosterone boost does for an athlete. I have yet to hear an explaination why Landis would have overdosed on testosterone for just that one mountain stage, wasn't he clean when he tested earlier in the same tour....I heard some doctors say testosterone does not have an immediate effect on your performance and would not be a cyclists preferred boost drug ? cheers While I do know more than the average Joe, I will put my hands up and admit I'm no expert. As to Landis, while I can't comment on what testosterone does to you with regards to an immediate effect, I can comment that it's not unreasonable to believe that his "testosterone was high" for some time, except only at this point could they make anything stick. (When you comment "overdosed for just one stage" - this is the difference I referred to above. A test will never prove "someone is clean" rather (presuming a "clear result") it can only state "it can't be proven they're dirty" - it's quite possible his tests earlier in the tour were very questionable - this is not a black & white area!.) The immediate question that pops to my mind though, is that if it didn't make that much a difference, why did he have so much in his system in the middle of a Tour??! Good question though, I'll follow it up next time I speak with the experts! appreciate it
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Post by caro on Jul 27, 2007 2:26:24 GMT -5
i wonder why they bother taking drugs it's more than likely that they're gonna be tested, especially if they perform well
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Post by masterplan200 on Jul 27, 2007 10:14:40 GMT -5
When my cousin quit cycling to move into Water polo, he sad that he'd never seen so many cheats in a sport before
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Post by Iliad ♣ on Jul 28, 2007 4:48:46 GMT -5
sgihseurisisssagtrsthyyxbzanzibah ooodkauehdgarur... blah When seeing a random list of doping users (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_athletes_who_tested_positive_for_banned_substances) you can easily see that cycling is surely not the dirtiest (athletics is), even though the list is incomplete. Also, other sports like football/soccer are way dirtier than they seem to be. I heard on the radio (Dutch radio 1) that in many of the other sports, athletes get to actually hear WHEN they are getting a test (often about two-three weeks prior to the test ). Doping tests in cycling are much stricter and more often. The tests are just better than those in other sports, so it's only logical more riders get caught If the Germans want to boycott the tour, they should boycott the Olympics too it's just plain dangling bollocks what they're doing now, not helping the cycling sport at all. The Landis guy...well I can't just understand why he would go so far (he's bankrupt!!!) in trying to clear his name, when he used doping? I think he speaks the truth.
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Post by nyr401994 on Jul 29, 2007 14:51:59 GMT -5
boycotting the tour? it's not like anybody (in the u.s., at least) is paying much attention to it without lance armstrong being in it.
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Post by caro on Jul 29, 2007 17:52:18 GMT -5
well it's not like there's no one watching it when you remove all the yankees either
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Post by masterplan200 on Jul 30, 2007 0:46:12 GMT -5
Also, other sports like football/soccer are way dirtier than they seem to be. I heard on the radio (Dutch radio 1) that in many of the other sports, athletes get to actually hear WHEN they are getting a test (often about two-three weeks prior to the test ). Doping tests in cycling are much stricter and more often. The tests are just better than those in other sports, so it's only logical more riders get caught . Just saw the list, Alcohol?
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