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Post by guigsysEstring on Nov 4, 2016 14:45:45 GMT -5
Was reading through some - actually a lot - comments on the FB page of Milo Yiannopoulos. As much as I love the guy for being way out of line and especially because of his comments about feminism his followers are either dumb as fuck or american media is just... I dont know. Do you americans really think there is rape and murder here everyday just because of refugees? You really think there "will be a revolution soon"? I´m in no way defending shit like that but when I read all that stuff coming from people who are allowed to vote in a few days I wonder what you guys see in the media everday... And yeah I´m aware of for what Milo stands, but still...this was disturbing a little. US mainstream media (similarly to a lot of other countries TBF) over the past few decades has gone from multiple ownership to six companies that control circa ninety percent of the output- Business Insider- Six Companies , and the proposed merger between telecommunications provider AT&T and Time Warner will only see communications and media consolidation go even further down the line. The obvious problem with this is that choice and opposing points of view to the status quo become harder to get across to the average citizen who has little deep interest in politics, as these multinational corporations are tied in with established business, political and social circles and schools of thought. It is also a more underhanded way IMO than the old Soviet era where the state broadcast or printed it's propaganda, whilst here in the West it is seen as free because it is privately owned when in fact most of the media is very much tied to the establishment. This means it is very easy to spread distrust, fear, panic and prejudice which is useful as a tool of control by keeping people afraid of the man/woman on their level instead of seeing what is happening above them. It goes back to people like Niccolo Machiavelli (the founder of modern political science) and his text "The Prince" from the 1500's on how to control the masses for the benefit of the establishment. Ultimately unless people become aware and start to delve into matters themselves the media will spoon feed such lies mixed with confusion by running parallel stories for example "The Danger of Islam" followed by "Plight of Muslim Refugees" which IMO is also designed to confuse, cause division and stir up prejudices or tensions. My own way of handling such stories has for a long time been to look closely at who is producing the story, what their angle is and what they may gain from broadcasting or publishing such a story. It is hard sometimes to be objective but I find that once you get into such ways of thinking it becomes easier to pick apart facts from attempts at deception and pot stirring, and I hope that if as it seems more people follow similar lines of thinking then the mainstream stranglehold on public thought will continue to diminish
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Post by batfink30 on Nov 4, 2016 15:19:15 GMT -5
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Post by guigsysEstring on Nov 4, 2016 15:23:20 GMT -5
The Catholic church would know- deceit, genocide, rape and theft have all been tried and tested by themselves over the centuries. Also highly amused by constraints on tax-exempt organisations restrictions on political activity being likened to slavery, quite ironic given their history. As an aside to that they could start paying taxes and contribute to society meaningfully, or continue to be the hypocritical, prejudice stirring, wealth accumulating stain on humanity that I consider them to be
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Post by colddrystone on Nov 4, 2016 17:40:31 GMT -5
The real way to tell if someone has lost the argument is if they start incoherently flinging insults. Right, because being inferred to as a racist, neo Nazi or misogynist and having and having your opinions called delusional and bullshit before that post is a TOTALLY civil way to respectfully treat someone. So I guess I'll have to agree with you actually
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Post by colddrystone on Nov 4, 2016 17:59:17 GMT -5
I haven't really read the whole of this thread, read about 5 pages, but this stood out: And I wish some folk would stop with this delusion that both candidates are as low life and putrid as the other. For sure, this is as poor a US Presidential election of all time in terms of quality, but people need to get a grip if they think Clinton is on the same level as Trump. Clinton is immensely flawed, but Trump is a catastrophe as a politician and a human being. I find it immensely disturbing that some would put her faults on the same level as Trump. There's absolutely no comparison at all between the two. I've been thinking this as well. Sure, neither Trump, nor Clinton are great candidates, but to say Hillary is as bad as Trump, and that she will cause WW3 (I mean, WHAT THE FUCK?) is just wrong. Anyway, I sympathize with you, Americans, and hope Trump won't be your president. She's the only one accusing Russia of hacking her, multiple times has insulted Putin as a leader and yet sold a lot of uranium to the country. Now, pissing off a nation that aare pretty trigger happy and are a nuclear juggernaut could be a catalyst for a war. Now with the better than comprarisons, I think people have preferences with what they see in people. Trump says shit things so people don't like him and is accused of grim things, massive turn off. The fact he used a (legal,mind you) way to avoid taxes can be seen as unethical, I myself do cos of the shit load of money he makes. With Hillary, people don't take kindly to someone who is subpoenaed by the FBI and then deletes the alleged "evidence", uses a private server for those emails rather than use the secure White House server, which as a result according to wikileaks, madeinformation avaliable to hackers from 6 countries and being under FBI investigation twice during her campaign. There's also the matter of her financial backing, if you search up Clinton cash on YouTube, the video explains it. So in summary you have a perceived arsehole in one hand to a perceived lawbreaker, it just boils down to what people prefer in people.Hope that's helped a bit.
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Post by mystoryisgory on Nov 4, 2016 19:01:10 GMT -5
The real way to tell if someone has lost the argument is if they start incoherently flinging insults. Right, because being inferred to as a racist, neo Nazi or misogynist and having and having your opinions called delusional and bullshit before that post is a TOTALLY civil way to respectfully treat someone. So I guess I'll have to agree with you actually The difference is that your opinions invite those descriptors because you are supporting a candidate who is racist, neo-Nazi, misogynist, delusional, and bullshit. And let's remember the incoherent ramblings you posted after matt brilliantly destroyed your lies and deception. You're being quite the hypocrite: is telling someone to grow up after your facsimile of an argument was thoroughly debunked and someone else's argument a "worthless rag" and "bullshit" respectful? If you can't remember saying these things, I've kindly saved you the trouble of going back a few pages by quoting your remarks below. See I don't really care about him not condemning David, he's not endorsing him either. And as far as you "calling out my bullshit", all im doing is trying to state facts that have come from the person themselves rather than some worthless rag. You saying they're made up is just putting your head further in the sand. How about you grow up, accept people who have a different opinion as you don't have to be neo Nazis or misogynists and read the damn facts than spout off your holier than thou, everyone i don't agree with is bad bullshit. And why should anyone accept your opinions that are based on disgusting distortions of reality? It's one thing to disagree on policy and controversial issues, it's another to formulate your political views on anything that has been proven false again and again. You may say that my opinions are based off of similar fabrications, but I think that anybody with half a brain can tell the difference between what is true and what is false. Hint: it isn't your perception. I'm not going to be dragged further into a pointless waste of breath with Trump surrogate, so this will be the last time I acknowledge your existence.
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Post by colddrystone on Nov 4, 2016 19:05:13 GMT -5
^Trump condemning foreign interference the election
And I didn't actually notice this, but he did actually disavow the KKK and David Duke on live television.
Apparently he also disavowed Duke and the KKK during one of the debates too so I'll have a rewatch of those.
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Post by colddrystone on Nov 4, 2016 19:09:16 GMT -5
Right, because being inferred to as a racist, neo Nazi or misogynist and having and having your opinions called delusional and bullshit before that post is a TOTALLY civil way to respectfully treat someone. So I guess I'll have to agree with you actually The difference is that your opinions invite those descriptors because you are supporting a candidate who is racist, neo-Nazi, misogynist, delusional, and bullshit. And let's remember the incoherent ramblings you posted after matt brilliantly destroyed your lies and deception. You're being quite the hypocrite: is telling someone to grow up after your facsimile of an argument was thoroughly debunked and someone else's argument a "worthless rag" and "bullshit" respectful? If you can't remember saying these things, I've kindly saved you the trouble of going back a few pages by quoting your remarks below. See I don't really care about him not condemning David, he's not endorsing him either. And as far as you "calling out my bullshit", all im doing is trying to state facts that have come from the person themselves rather than some worthless rag. You saying they're made up is just putting your head further in the sand. How about you grow up, accept people who have a different opinion as you don't have to be neo Nazis or misogynists and read the damn facts than spout off your holier than thou, everyone i don't agree with is bad bullshit. And why should anyone accept your opinions that are based on disgusting distortions of reality? It's one thing to disagree on policy and controversial issues, it's another to formulate your political views on anything that has been proven false again and again. You may say that my opinions are based off of similar fabrications, but I think that anybody with half a brain can tell the difference between what is true and what is false. Hint: it isn't your perception. I'm not going to be dragged further into a pointless waste of breath with Trump surrogate, so this will be the last time I acknowledge your existence. First off, rag in English English means newspaper, I was telling him to not get his information off worthless sources. Tell me where I've "lied and deceived", even though I've actually formulated everything from what I've heard directly from rallies and debates and I'll happily provide you with any evidence you need. And he called my opinion bullshit first, I'm allowed to retaliate in same fashion. And I don't know what's rambling about saying facts are being ignored and not wanting to be labelled a neo Nazi or misogynist.
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Post by colddrystone on Nov 4, 2016 19:22:32 GMT -5
This, ladies and gentlemen, is sadly what people think free speech is in the modern world. Your personal preferences and opinion will get you shunned and insulted if it's the wrong one. You'll be labelled the stuff that I have for supporting the wrong. I'm sorry, but that's not how free speech works. I've time and time again in this very thread said that being a Hillary supporter is fine, even though I don't agree with the things she says or the things she's done, I haven't labelled any of her supporters as crime supporters or war mongers. Tried being patient and respectful but if you can't take someones opinions, based entirely on words from the horses mouth and evidence, then I'm afraid to say I have more brain cells in my half a brain than your whole.
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Post by colddrystone on Nov 4, 2016 19:25:35 GMT -5
Oh, and grow up <3
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Post by guigsysEstring on Nov 4, 2016 19:48:29 GMT -5
mimmihopps eva lock it up until 9th November maybe? Seriously though every political debate online usually descends at some point into partisan mud slinging, name calling or whatever. If you disagree with someone to the point that nothing they say or show will change your mind then move on as it achieves nothing by getting angry with people who you only know as a username on a forum.
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Post by mystoryisgory on Nov 4, 2016 19:56:43 GMT -5
mimmihopps eva lock it up until 9th November maybe? Seriously though every political debate online usually descends at some part into partisan mud slinging, name calling or whatever. If you disagree with someone to the point that nothing they say or show will change your mind then move on as it achieves nothing by getting angry with people who you only know as a username on a forum. Ha, I think I think I did break my self-imposed rule to not engage in such pointless discourse, for lack of a better word. But I'm not sure that this thread needs to be locked? We are still expressing our opinions even if we get a bit worked up at times.
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Post by guigsysEstring on Nov 4, 2016 20:01:14 GMT -5
mimmihopps eva lock it up until 9th November maybe? Seriously though every political debate online usually descends at some part into partisan mud slinging, name calling or whatever. If you disagree with someone to the point that nothing they say or show will change your mind then move on as it achieves nothing by getting angry with people who you only know as a username on a forum. Ha, I think I think I did break my self-imposed rule to not engage in such pointless discourse, for lack of a better word. But I'm not sure that this thread needs to be locked? We are still expressing our opinions even if we get a bit worked up at times. That was meant to be a joke although I probably shouldn't have actually tagged the mods- apologies ladies The main thing for me here is that this election has become less about parties and policies, and more about the two candidates failings, personalities, etc. with some of it obviously deserved and some of it up for speculation only. It says a lot about how poor the state of democracy is to me when these two people are genuinely held up as the best representation of the USA domestically and abroad from a country with circa 318,000,000 inhabitants? I agree with you FWIW that we should carry on debating, I just get irked with blinkered visions from both sets of supporters and the pointless name calling type moments- a failing of my own perhaps re: not being tolerant?
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Post by colddrystone on Nov 4, 2016 20:58:25 GMT -5
mimmihopps eva lock it up until 9th November maybe? Seriously though every political debate online usually descends at some part into partisan mud slinging, name calling or whatever. If you disagree with someone to the point that nothing they say or show will change your mind then move on as it achieves nothing by getting angry with people who you only know as a username on a forum. Ha, I think I think I did break my self-imposed rule to not engage in such pointless discourse, for lack of a better word. But I'm not sure that this thread needs to be locked? We are still expressing our opinions even if we get a bit worked up at times. Agreed 100%. At least this is worth getting worked up about, rather than what live tracks were used on the 3rd disc of the Morning Glory reissue.
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Post by glider on Nov 4, 2016 22:38:23 GMT -5
mimmihopps eva lock it up until 9th November maybe? Seriously though every political debate online usually descends at some point into partisan mud slinging, name calling or whatever. If you disagree with someone to the point that nothing they say or show will change your mind then move on as it achieves nothing by getting angry with people who you only know as a username on a forum. Or just keep it locked forever. This thread just continues to prove how much I dislike my country's political system. Lock it up ladies!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2016 22:45:04 GMT -5
mimmihopps eva lock it up until 9th November maybe? Seriously though every political debate online usually descends at some point into partisan mud slinging, name calling or whatever. If you disagree with someone to the point that nothing they say or show will change your mind then move on as it achieves nothing by getting angry with people who you only know as a username on a forum. Or just keep it locked forever. This thread just continues to prove how much I dislike my country's political system. Lock it up ladies! If that makes you feel better, your country politics has at least kept your presidents in the power until the end also, right now it doesn't have the best options, but the next one might have better ones. Good thing y'all don't have to deal with Trump x Hillary every election, 'cause that's pretty much what happens around here; what differs is that sometimes our Hillary ain't exactly a woman.
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Post by mimmihopps on Nov 5, 2016 4:22:08 GMT -5
mimmihopps eva lock it up until 9th November maybe? Seriously though every political debate online usually descends at some point into partisan mud slinging, name calling or whatever. If you disagree with someone to the point that nothing they say or show will change your mind then move on as it achieves nothing by getting angry with people who you only know as a username on a forum. I didn't follow this thread much to be honest. My honest thought is that I'm glad that I'm not a US citizen. If I was, I probably wouldn't go to a polling station next week. I do agree everything you said, guigsysEstring. However we'll still keep this thread open for a while.
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Post by Let It🩸 on Nov 5, 2016 17:37:07 GMT -5
Let's not forget, let's not forget, Donald Trump has a mail order bride....if Hillary Clinton had a mail order bride then conservatives would be going crazy.
Thanks.
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Post by batfink30 on Nov 5, 2016 18:07:26 GMT -5
Let's not forget, let's not forget, Donald Trump has a mail order bride....if Hillary Clinton had a mail order bride then conservatives would be going crazy. Thanks. She does but it's being covered up!
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Post by guigsysEstring on Nov 5, 2016 18:27:14 GMT -5
Let's not forget, let's not forget, Donald Trump has a mail order bride....if Hillary Clinton had a mail order bride then conservatives would be going crazy. Thanks. So would the liberals but in a more euphoric manner as she would then be a confirmed bi-sexual or lesbian candidate for the White House Just a thought- Thanks
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on Nov 5, 2016 21:51:19 GMT -5
Interesting....this thread's poll just gained 4 votes for Trump in the last 24 hours.
Like real life, this shit is tightening!
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on Nov 5, 2016 22:06:13 GMT -5
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Post by guigsysEstring on Nov 5, 2016 23:19:41 GMT -5
Interesting....this thread's poll just gained 4 votes for Trump in the last 24 hours. Like real life, this shit is tightening!
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Post by Rain on Nov 5, 2016 23:21:36 GMT -5
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Post by batfink30 on Nov 6, 2016 13:24:23 GMT -5
America! America! God shed His grace on thee, And crown thy good with brotherhood From sea to shining sea!.... ..... ..... In the howlin' wind Comes a stingin' rain See it drivin' nails Into the souls on the tree of pain. From the firefly A red orange glow See the face of fear Runnin' scared in the valley below. Bullet the blue sky Bullet the blue sky Bullet the blue Bullet the blue. In the locust wind Comes a rattle and hum. Jacob wrestled the angel And the angel was overcome. You plant a demon seed You raise a flower of fire. We see them burnin' crosses See the flames, higher and higher. Woh, woh, bullet the blue sky Bullet the blue sky Bullet the blue Bullet the blue. Suit and tie comes up to me His face red like a rose on a thorn bush Like all the colours of a royal flush And he's peelin' off those dollar bills (Slappin' 'em down) One hundred, two hundred. And I can see those fighter planes And I can see those fighter planes Across the tin huts as children sleep Through the alleys of a quiet city street. Up the staircase to the first floor We turn the key and slowly unlock the door As a man breathes into his saxophone And through the walls you hear the city groan. Outside, is America Outside, is America America. See across the field See the sky ripped open See the rain comin' through the gapin' wound Howlin' the women and children Who run into the arms Of America.
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