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Post by mimmihopps on Apr 16, 2014 9:22:27 GMT -5
Mine has just arrived!
I'm sure that all the people in Mainland Europe receive(d) theirs today.
Now, waiting for 19th May for the box set!
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Post by rupertg on Apr 16, 2014 9:28:52 GMT -5
Any plans for Oasis next year to reissue Live By The Sea on VHS for the 20th anniversary?
Just wishful thinking.
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Post by davidjay on Apr 16, 2014 10:34:37 GMT -5
Any plans for Oasis next year to reissue Live By The Sea on VHS for the 20th anniversary? Just wishful thinking. That would be fun & quite nostalgic! Speaking of old formats... Live by the Sea was also released on LaserDisc, which now seems quite scarce. There and Then was released on LD too, although only in the US. The digital audio on those discs might be the best quality for those releases, as it's uncompressed PCM. Mind you the DVD of There and Then has a 5.1 mix unique to that release.   As for a reissue of Live by the Sea, I think it would be great if they went back to the original 16mm footage (assuming it survives) and re-scanned it in HD for a Blu-Ray edition... hoping that something similar will be done for Knebworth too. |
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Post by themanwithnoname on Apr 16, 2014 11:22:02 GMT -5
Any plans for Oasis next year to reissue Live By The Sea on VHS for the 20th anniversary? Just wishful thinking. That would be fun & quite nostalgic! Speaking of old formats... Live by the Sea was also released on LaserDisc, which now seems quite scarce. There and Then was released on LD too, although only in the US. The digital audio on those discs might be the best quality for those releases, as it's uncompressed PCM. Mind you the DVD of There and Then has a 5.1 mix unique to that release. View AttachmentAs for a reissue of Live by the Sea, I think it would be great if they went back to the original 16mm footage (assuming it survives) and re-scanned it in HD for a Blu-Ray edition... hoping that something similar will be done for Knebworth too. Still got my Live By The Sea VHS if anyone wants it! My DVD copy has always had a strange, intermittent (but regular, if you know what I mean?) lag effect on it, almost as though it's a bad NTSC to PAL transfer. Anyone else noticed this? |
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Post by davidjay on Apr 16, 2014 12:29:53 GMT -5
themanwithnoname I haven't seen that DVD in a while but I know what you're referring to... like double-imaging on fast movement, which is a trait of poor standards conversion. It could be that the original telecine transfer of Live by the Sea was done in NTSC, and what people in PAL regions have always seen is a poor (compared to today's technology) standards conversion from NTSC to PAL. That master was probably fine for VHS, but the MPEG-2 compression used on DVD doesn't cope too well with those kind of motion artefacts (or high levels of grain & video noise). Hopefully for any reissue they will go back to the 16mm film source and scan it in HD on a modern telecine, which should give far better picture quality. On a related note, BBC Studios and Post Production have recently remastered the original House of Cards series in HD... it was also shot in the early 90s on 16mm and the "before and after" pictures in this article give a good idea of the huge boost in quality that's possible with this kind of footage... they should get the same team working on all the 90s Oasis footage, IMO.  www.televisual.com/news-detail/House-of-Cards-remaster-by-BBC-SandPP-coincides-with-remake_nid-2573.html
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Post by themanwithnoname on Apr 17, 2014 3:58:25 GMT -5
themanwithnoname I haven't seen that DVD in a while but I know what you're referring to... like double-imaging on fast movement, which is a trait of poor standards conversion. It could be that the original telecine transfer of Live by the Sea was done in NTSC, and what people in PAL regions have always seen is a poor (compared to today's technology) standards conversion from NTSC to PAL. That master was probably fine for VHS, but the MPEG-2 compression used on DVD doesn't cope too well with those kind of motion artefacts (or high levels of grain & video noise). Hopefully for any reissue they will go back to the 16mm film source and scan it in HD on a modern telecine, which should give far better picture quality. On a related note, BBC Studios and Post Production have recently remastered the original House of Cards series in HD... it was also shot in the early 90s on 16mm and the "before and after" pictures in this article give a good idea of the huge boost in quality that's possible with this kind of footage... they should get the same team working on all the 90s Oasis footage, IMO. www.televisual.com/news-detail/House-of-Cards-remaster-by-BBC-SandPP-coincides-with-remake_nid-2573.html I know what you mean about the double-imaging on fast movement you get from NTSC to PAL conversions - I recently had some done professionally using very good equipment and it's still discernible here and there. But it's actually slightly different on Live By The Sea. Every 10 seconds or so, the film seems to slow down (only momentarily) for a couple of frames, then resume as normal. Very strange and annoying as once you notice it you see it very time. It would be amazing to get properly restored footage from the 90s. The stuff they put on the new website, such as the tunes from the Right Here, Right Now documentary mean it's a bit of a letdown watching my VHS conversion these days, even though it's a decent copy. The greatest restoration I've seen was on The Beatles' Help! when they released it on DVD a few years back. It looks a fascinating process and the results are incredible. |
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Post by davidjay on Apr 17, 2014 4:56:54 GMT -5
themanwithnoname thanks very much for the info and link to the Help! restoration feature, fascinating stuff, and a great end result:) Regarding the artefacts on Live by the Sea... my initial thought is that the concert was probably shot at 24fps and transferred to NTSC videotape using the 3:2 pulldown process, which repeats fields in order to meet the NTSC standard of 30fps. The result of this is that the footage runs at very close to the original speed, but has a slight intermittent "stutter" on motion due to the repeated video fields. The effect can be seen on most NTSC DVDs of cinema films too. There is some more technical detail on this here. www.extron.com/company/article.aspx?id=32pulldownHaven't seen the DVD in ages... is it in NTSC? If so, that's probably what you're seeing there. Some TVs and DVD players have an option to remove the 3:2 pulldown, which should help. If the disc is PAL, it might be that they did a normal standards conversion of that NTSC (30fps with 3:2 pulldown) master to PAL (25fps), which would create worse motion artefacts by spreading out the repeated information across multiple frames. It would have been better if they made separate transfer of the film in PAL (at 25fps, running 4% fast) and digitally corrected the increased pitch of the soundtrack. Just speculating though... I'll email Nigel Dick and ask about how the concert was shot and mastered originally, hopefully he may be able to clarify what's going on here. Hope this helps.
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Post by themanwithnoname on Apr 17, 2014 5:11:11 GMT -5
Thanks David, would appreciate any info on this.
The DVD is PAL.
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Post by davidjay on Apr 17, 2014 5:18:34 GMT -5
Thanks David, would appreciate any info on this. The DVD is PAL. You're welcome; thanks for the info on the DVD. Will email Nigel later and let you know of any new info via this thread. |
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Post by thomuk2006 on Apr 17, 2014 11:30:36 GMT -5
Got my tape today... (I'm in Sweden) I love it! pretty useless though... just sat on my shelf ha ha. Really think it's a shame it didn't come with a download code, oh well...
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Post by davidjay on Apr 17, 2014 12:02:48 GMT -5
themanwithnoname I emailed Nigel Dick earlier and he kindly got back with the following info... would be interesting to check the NTSC DVD of Live by the Sea. If it was mastered from the original NTSC master tape (rather than an NTSC-PAL-NTSC conversion) it should look better, IMO. You mentioned in our previous interview that the concert was shot on 16mm... I was wondering if this was shot at 24 frames-per-second, then telecined in NTSC (with 3:2 pulldown) for the video release? Probably. It was shot in the UK (obviously) and post-production happened in LA. (The PAL DVD I have here has some odd motion artefacts, where the image stutters every few seconds. Was thinking this might be down to an old conversion of an NTSC master tape, causing judder on the picture. Would appreciate your insight on this... any information on the shooting format and telecine transfer of the concert would be great). Shot on 16mm, transferred & edited in LA. That's all I can tell you. It was smooth the last time I saw it so I can only conclude that it's down a couple of generations now. Also, were the music videos you shot for Oasis (Wonderwall, Don't Look Back in Anger etc) post-produced in NTSC? Yes. All shot in 16mm in the UK and put through post in LA. Don't Look Back In Anger being the odd one out in that it was shot in LA. Finally, I was wondering if you might know whether the original 16mm and 35mm film footage (of Live by the Sea and any of the Oasis music videos) has been kept, enabling an HD restoration in the future. You'd have to ask Sony that. The dailies are always returned to the label immediately the job is completed. At which point they usually disappear into a big dark hole and are never seen again. FYI everything I did for Oasis was shot 16mm apart from "Don't Go Away" which might have been 35mm. (I think). Many thanks to Nigel for taking the time to reply to these questions. That explains why the Time Flies DVD is NTSC - always wondered why there wasn't a PAL version. Will look into doing an interview with Dick Carruthers... as deadman suggested a couple of weeks back , he may be able to shed some light on the archive status of all this Oasis film footage.
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Post by themanwithnoname on Apr 17, 2014 12:07:23 GMT -5
themanwithnoname I emailed Nigel Dick earlier and he kindly got back with the following info... would be interesting to check the NTSC DVD of Live by the Sea. If it was mastered from the original NTSC master tape (rather than an NTSC-PAL-NTSC conversion) it should look better, IMO. You mentioned in our previous interview that the concert was shot on 16mm... I was wondering if this was shot at 24 frames-per-second, then telecined in NTSC (with 3:2 pulldown) for the video release? Probably. It was shot in the UK (obviously) and post-production happened in LA. (The PAL DVD I have here has some odd motion artefacts, where the image stutters every few seconds. Was thinking this might be down to an old conversion of an NTSC master tape, causing judder on the picture. Would appreciate your insight on this... any information on the shooting format and telecine transfer of the concert would be great). Shot on 16mm, transferred & edited in LA. That's all I can tell you. It was smooth the last time I saw it so I can only conclude that it's down a couple of generations now. Also, were the music videos you shot for Oasis (Wonderwall, Don't Look Back in Anger etc) post-produced in NTSC? Yes. All shot in 16mm in the UK and put through post in LA. Don't Look Back In Anger being the odd one out in that it was shot in LA. Finally, I was wondering if you might know whether the original 16mm and 35mm film footage (of Live by the Sea and any of the Oasis music videos) has been kept, enabling an HD restoration in the future. You'd have to ask Sony that. The dailies are always returned to the label immediately the job is completed. At which point they usually disappear into a big dark hole and are never seen again. FYI everything I did for Oasis was shot 16mm apart from "Don't Go Away" which might have been 35mm. (I think). Many thanks to Nigel for taking the time to reply to these questions. That explains why the Time Flies DVD is NTSC - always wondered why there wasn't a PAL version. Will look into doing an interview with Dick Carruthers... as deadman suggested a couple of weeks back , he may be able to shed some light on the archive status of all this Oasis film footage. Thanks for this David. Probably explains why there's that glitch on the PAL Live By The Sea DVD, a poor NTSC conversion. Am I right in concluding from this that all the Oasis videos were originally in NTSC? Funnily enough I never noticed an issue with the PAL versions so they must have been very good conversions. |
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Post by stevemeister on Apr 17, 2014 12:12:35 GMT -5
Has anyone ever noticed how low Noel's guitar sounds in The Swamp song on the There and Then DVD? If they relaunch that concert they need to fix that bit.
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Post by davidjay on Apr 17, 2014 12:25:41 GMT -5
themanwithnoname I emailed Nigel Dick earlier and he kindly got back with the following info... would be interesting to check the NTSC DVD of Live by the Sea. If it was mastered from the original NTSC master tape (rather than an NTSC-PAL-NTSC conversion) it should look better, IMO. You mentioned in our previous interview that the concert was shot on 16mm... I was wondering if this was shot at 24 frames-per-second, then telecined in NTSC (with 3:2 pulldown) for the video release? Probably. It was shot in the UK (obviously) and post-production happened in LA. (The PAL DVD I have here has some odd motion artefacts, where the image stutters every few seconds. Was thinking this might be down to an old conversion of an NTSC master tape, causing judder on the picture. Would appreciate your insight on this... any information on the shooting format and telecine transfer of the concert would be great). Shot on 16mm, transferred & edited in LA. That's all I can tell you. It was smooth the last time I saw it so I can only conclude that it's down a couple of generations now. Also, were the music videos you shot for Oasis (Wonderwall, Don't Look Back in Anger etc) post-produced in NTSC? Yes. All shot in 16mm in the UK and put through post in LA. Don't Look Back In Anger being the odd one out in that it was shot in LA. Finally, I was wondering if you might know whether the original 16mm and 35mm film footage (of Live by the Sea and any of the Oasis music videos) has been kept, enabling an HD restoration in the future. You'd have to ask Sony that. The dailies are always returned to the label immediately the job is completed. At which point they usually disappear into a big dark hole and are never seen again. FYI everything I did for Oasis was shot 16mm apart from "Don't Go Away" which might have been 35mm. (I think). Many thanks to Nigel for taking the time to reply to these questions. That explains why the Time Flies DVD is NTSC - always wondered why there wasn't a PAL version. Will look into doing an interview with Dick Carruthers... as deadman suggested a couple of weeks back , he may be able to shed some light on the archive status of all this Oasis film footage. Thanks for this David. Probably explains why there's that glitch on the PAL Live By The Sea DVD, a poor NTSC conversion. Am I right in concluding from this that all the Oasis videos were originally in NTSC? Funnily enough I never noticed an issue with the PAL versions so they must have been very good conversions. That's ok, happy to help out where I can. Yes, I think that's the source of the glitches on the PAL DVD of Live by the Sea - like you said, a poor 90s conversion from the NTSC master. If it was filmed at 24fps (as Nigel thinks it probably was) it will have had 3:2 pulldown added during the transfer (giving intermittent judder), and then a conventional standards conversion of that master to PAL will have added even more motion artefacts. This was initially an issue for the very first episodes of the X-Files when they were broadcast by the BBC in the mid-90s. From the second series onwards the BBC requested DEFT (Digital Electronic Film Transfer) copies from Fox, which removed the 3:2 pulldown problem (no added judder) and gave a PAL master with smooth 25fps motion, as though the film had originally been transferred in that format. Perhaps some of the Oasis videos were transferred using that workflow. It does give a very clean conversion. Also, I'm not sure that all of the Oasis music videos were post-produced in the US. There could be a mix of PAL and NTSC masters, and probably a couple of HD masters from the more recent singles. Would have to ask each director concerned, but I'm guessing that some of the earlier, low-budget ones that were later re-shot (like the rooftop film for Supersonic) was probably shot at 25fps and telecined in PAL here in the UK. A modern conversion of that master to NTSC using the best converters (like on the Time Flies DVD) would look very close to the source. Hope this helps. |
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Post by His Royal Noelness on Apr 17, 2014 15:55:43 GMT -5
Thanks for this David. Probably explains why there's that glitch on the PAL Live By The Sea DVD, a poor NTSC conversion. Am I right in concluding from this that all the Oasis videos were originally in NTSC? Funnily enough I never noticed an issue with the PAL versions so they must have been very good conversions. That's ok, happy to help out where I can. Yes, I think that's the source of the glitches on the PAL DVD of Live by the Sea - like you said, a poor 90s conversion from the NTSC master. If it was filmed at 24fps (as Nigel thinks it probably was) it will have had 3:2 pulldown added during the transfer (giving intermittent judder), and then a conventional standards conversion of that master to PAL will have added even more motion artefacts. This was initially an issue for the very first episodes of the X-Files when they were broadcast by the BBC in the mid-90s. From the second series onwards the BBC requested DEFT (Digital Electronic Film Transfer) copies from Fox, which removed the 3:2 pulldown problem (no added judder) and gave a PAL master with smooth 25fps motion, as though the film had originally been transferred in that format. Perhaps some of the Oasis videos were transferred using that workflow. It does give a very clean conversion. Also, I'm not sure that all of the Oasis music videos were post-produced in the US. There could be a mix of PAL and NTSC masters, and probably a couple of HD masters from the more recent singles. Would have to ask each director concerned, but I'm guessing that some of the earlier, low-budget ones that were later re-shot (like the rooftop film for Supersonic) was probably shot at 25fps and telecined in PAL here in the UK. A modern conversion of that master to NTSC using the best converters (like on the Time Flies DVD) would look very close to the source. Hope this helps. I'm sure the DOYS videos at least would have been shot on digital. |
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Post by davidjay on Apr 17, 2014 16:08:22 GMT -5
His Royal Noelness Good point. I guess some of the earlier ones might have been post-produced on digital videotape, albeit in standard definition of course... it seems a fair bet that some of the later videos were shot on HD video. The DOYS videos are a great example - in one of the promotional documentaries the director of the video for the Shock of the Lightning mentions that they were shooting in no less than 4k resolution, using state-of-the-art digital cinema cameras. So I'd guess there's an HD master of that one somewhere, gathering dust on a shelf
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Post by His Royal Noelness on Apr 17, 2014 17:03:52 GMT -5
They also did I'm Outta Time as well didn't they? Good chance that was filmed the same way if that's the case.
I'd be surprised if WIZ didn't at least shoot Falling Down in 1080p.
I don't know about the DBTT stuff. They were done back in 2005 and HD digital wasn't exactly the norm back then.
Lord Don't Slow Me Down and Let There Be Love were done on film and exist in HD.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2014 18:18:48 GMT -5
got mine today so tired right now tho I'm gonna save the 'moment of opening' til I can enjoy it more lol |
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Post by oasisitalia on Apr 18, 2014 1:56:06 GMT -5
got mine today !
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Post by rekrelf on Apr 18, 2014 4:20:28 GMT -5
I've got mine yesterday as well!
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Post by Lennon2217 on Apr 18, 2014 21:42:07 GMT -5
My cassette arrived today. Now it is time to find my cassette player!
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Post by thomas11 on Apr 19, 2014 7:20:50 GMT -5
got mine today. like it
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Post by davidjay on Apr 20, 2014 7:02:09 GMT -5
Thanks for this David. Probably explains why there's that glitch on the PAL Live By The Sea DVD, a poor NTSC conversion. Am I right in concluding from this that all the Oasis videos were originally in NTSC? Funnily enough I never noticed an issue with the PAL versions so they must have been very good conversions. Further to my earlier reply on this, I also found these title cards and countdown clocks for some of the music videos, which indicate the post-production video standard in a few cases. These are grabs of flash frames(some composite) from the Lock the Box documentary on the Stop the Clocks DVD. Info is missing on some of them due to the aspect ratio having been converted from 4:3 to 16:9 on the source. Hope this helps. These ones are post-produced NTSC... (click to enlarge) Live Forever (UK version, going by the date)  Wonderwall Don't Look Back in Anger  PAL ones to follow in the next post. |
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Post by davidjay on Apr 20, 2014 7:05:17 GMT -5
I think these are PAL. Well, the card for Songbird says PAL. The others are also post-produced by UK companies, so I'm assuming that the work was done in 625-lines, 25fps. Supersonic (Uk version. The phone number is a London area code... for the Molotov Brothers post-production house. www.notc.com/Content/Spotlights/1990/Whos_Who_In_Music_Video_Prod-11-90.pdf )  Cigarettes & Alcohol  D'You Know What I Mean?  |
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Post by davidjay on Apr 20, 2014 7:10:13 GMT -5
Last two PAL ones... Songbird Lyla  (note the gag on Phil Tidy's name there... Phil Untidy! On the other frames there are other bits of text added by the editors of the documentary, which quote from the interview segments with phrases like "not true" "by a boat" "bring out the gayness" (no, really!)... |
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