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Post by spaneli on Nov 15, 2012 23:52:34 GMT -5
Well Liam can do simple songs very well e.g. Songbird. Wigwam doesn't do anything for me though. Admittedly it is better live than on the album. Hopefully Dave Sitek will help Liam hone his writing for material presented at the recording sessions. More songs like Songbird, Boy With The Blues and Pass Me Down The Wine, less songs like Ain't Got Nothing and Better Man. Huh? Songs like Songbird and Boy With the Blues aren't that different in the grand scheme of things than Ain't Got Nothing and Better Man. Both songs having simple lyrics and a simple repeating structure. The only difference is that one group is a good group of songs and the other are poor. That's on songwriting. Sitek isn't going to help that. Let's not act like the man can walk on water and cure AIDS. If the songwriting is bad, the songwriting is bad. There's no magic wand that he's going to wave to make bad songwriting good. He can make a good song better, but that's about it. Ain't Got Nothing was dead on arrival because of bad songwriting and no producer is going to change that or teach Liam to hone in on better songs. That's purely on Liam. A producer can only work with what is given to him. If you give Sitek good songwriting, then he's going to get the most out of that song. That's his job. Not to sit down with someone and do a writing workshop. I just feel that people are really putting too much emphasis on Sitek being the producer. In the end, he's a producer. And it's really up to Beady Eye to bring good songs. He can push them and try to get as much as he can out of them, but if they don't come through on the songwriting front, he's not going to be able to fix that. |
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Post by tomlivesforever on Nov 16, 2012 2:24:36 GMT -5
Those songs sound completely different to each other. I don't really see the problem with simplicity or repeating structure we are Oasis fans after all, I don't think anyone is expecting Pink Floyd.
You haven't heard the upcoming songs I take it? People are just excited for new material and not stupid enough to believe a producer has a magic wand. Let them be excited.
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Post by Mr. Bigglesworth on Nov 16, 2012 3:00:07 GMT -5
Hopefully Dave Sitek will help Liam hone his writing for material presented at the recording sessions. More songs like Songbird, Boy With The Blues and Pass Me Down The Wine, less songs like Ain't Got Nothing and Better Man. Huh? Songs like Songbird and Boy With the Blues aren't that different in the grand scheme of things than Ain't Got Nothing and Better Man. Both songs having simple lyrics and a simple repeating structure. The only difference is that one group is a good group of songs and the other are poor. That's on songwriting. Sitek isn't going to help that. Let's not act like the man can walk on water and cure AIDS. If the songwriting is bad, the songwriting is bad. There's no magic wand that he's going to wave to make bad songwriting good. He can make a good song better, but that's about it. Ain't Got Nothing was dead on arrival because of bad songwriting and no producer is going to change that or teach Liam to hone in on better songs. That's purely on Liam. A producer can only work with what is given to him. If you give Sitek good songwriting, then he's going to get the most out of that song. That's his job. Not to sit down with someone and do a writing workshop. I just feel that people are really putting too much emphasis on Sitek being the producer. In the end, he's a producer. And it's really up to Beady Eye to bring good songs. He can push them and try to get as much as he can out of them, but if they don't come through on the songwriting front, he's not going to be able to fix that. don't get all the hate fore "ain't got nothin", sure the lyrics are simple, but whats the problem. liam wanted an agressive stomping song and i think it deliveres that feeling. the second part of DOYS was more calmer and down tempo and then "ain't got nothin" just slaps you in the face. i think it fits on the album very well. really like the screaming in the background of the raw guitar solo. love the telecaster rhythm guitar sound. |
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Post by Underneath the sky on Nov 16, 2012 4:12:51 GMT -5
Hopefully Dave Sitek will help Liam hone his writing for material presented at the recording sessions. More songs like Songbird, Boy With The Blues and Pass Me Down The Wine, less songs like Ain't Got Nothing and Better Man. Huh? Songs like Songbird and Boy With the Blues aren't that different in the grand scheme of things than Ain't Got Nothing and Better Man. Both songs having simple lyrics and a simple repeating structure. The only difference is that one group is a good group of songs and the other are poor. That's on songwriting. Sitek isn't going to help that. Let's not act like the man can walk on water and cure AIDS. If the songwriting is bad, the songwriting is bad. There's no magic wand that he's going to wave to make bad songwriting good. He can make a good song better, but that's about it. Ain't Got Nothing was dead on arrival because of bad songwriting and no producer is going to change that or teach Liam to hone in on better songs. That's purely on Liam. A producer can only work with what is given to him. If you give Sitek good songwriting, then he's going to get the most out of that song. That's his job. Not to sit down with someone and do a writing workshop. I just feel that people are really putting too much emphasis on Sitek being the producer. In the end, he's a producer. And it's really up to Beady Eye to bring good songs. He can push them and try to get as much as he can out of them, but if they don't come through on the songwriting front, he's not going to be able to fix that. It depends on the song. With Wigwam Lilywhite probably helped to turn it into a 6 minute song despite there being 2 minutes of ideas in the song. If they'd left it at 2 minutes long it wouldn't have been anywhere near as popular. With a song like Ain't Got Nothin' the producer should have told them that the song was shit and to come back with something better. |
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Post by Lennon2217 on Nov 16, 2012 9:15:41 GMT -5
Hopefully Dave Sitek will help Liam hone his writing for material presented at the recording sessions. More songs like Songbird, Boy With The Blues and Pass Me Down The Wine, less songs like Ain't Got Nothing and Better Man. Huh? Songs like Songbird and Boy With the Blues aren't that different in the grand scheme of things than Ain't Got Nothing and Better Man. Both songs having simple lyrics and a simple repeating structure. The only difference is that one group is a good group of songs and the other are poor. That's on songwriting. Sitek isn't going to help that. Let's not act like the man can walk on water and cure AIDS. If the songwriting is bad, the songwriting is bad. There's no magic wand that he's going to wave to make bad songwriting good. He can make a good song better, but that's about it. Ain't Got Nothing was dead on arrival because of bad songwriting and no producer is going to change that or teach Liam to hone in on better songs. That's purely on Liam. A producer can only work with what is given to him. If you give Sitek good songwriting, then he's going to get the most out of that song. That's his job. Not to sit down with someone and do a writing workshop. I just feel that people are really putting too much emphasis on Sitek being the producer. In the end, he's a producer. And it's really up to Beady Eye to bring good songs. He can push them and try to get as much as he can out of them, but if they don't come through on the songwriting front, he's not going to be able to fix that. I think you missed my point completely. I hope Sitek will not allow songs like Aint Got Nothing, Better Man and The Meaning of Soul to make an album. He should just pick the best Liam material and that includes the songs I mentioned. I don't expect any great miracle but I do expect being selective with material when it comes to a tracklisting. |
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Post by spaneli on Nov 16, 2012 12:51:24 GMT -5
Those songs sound completely different to each other. I don't really see the problem with simplicity or repeating structure we are Oasis fans after all, I don't think anyone is expecting Pink Floyd. You haven't heard the upcoming songs I take it? People are just excited for new material and not stupid enough to believe a producer has a magic wand. Let them be excited. Obviously they sound different from each other, but fundamentally they're the same. It's like TDOYAM and SOTWB. Two different sounding songs, yet fundamentally the same. That's my point. And simple structures aren't bad. But when you have simple repeating structures to songs that aren't fully developed. That are probably a minute or two too long, then I think that's a bit of a problem. So let's not go to the "we're Oasis fans" argument. And let's not go to the "have you heard the songs argument". No, obviously. But the point remains is that what counts are the songs. Sitek's announcement as I said before if you read, should bring excitement because it means there's a new album and that there's finally news. |
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Post by spaneli on Nov 16, 2012 13:03:25 GMT -5
Huh? Songs like Songbird and Boy With the Blues aren't that different in the grand scheme of things than Ain't Got Nothing and Better Man. Both songs having simple lyrics and a simple repeating structure. The only difference is that one group is a good group of songs and the other are poor. That's on songwriting. Sitek isn't going to help that. Let's not act like the man can walk on water and cure AIDS. If the songwriting is bad, the songwriting is bad. There's no magic wand that he's going to wave to make bad songwriting good. He can make a good song better, but that's about it. Ain't Got Nothing was dead on arrival because of bad songwriting and no producer is going to change that or teach Liam to hone in on better songs. That's purely on Liam. A producer can only work with what is given to him. If you give Sitek good songwriting, then he's going to get the most out of that song. That's his job. Not to sit down with someone and do a writing workshop. I just feel that people are really putting too much emphasis on Sitek being the producer. In the end, he's a producer. And it's really up to Beady Eye to bring good songs. He can push them and try to get as much as he can out of them, but if they don't come through on the songwriting front, he's not going to be able to fix that. I think you missed my point completely. I hope Sitek will not allow songs like Aint Got Nothing, Better Man and The Meaning of Soul to make an album. He should just pick the best Liam material and that includes the songs I mentioned. I don't expect any great miracle but I do expect being selective with material when it comes to a tracklisting. Yes, but someone like Gem or Andy, or even Liam want a song like Meaning of Soul on there, it really doesn't matter much what Sitek thinks to be honest. I mean, he can try and order them to not put that song there because he thinks it's crap and tell them to make something else, but if one of them truly believes in a song, then that's kind of it. I don't know, I just feel that at the moment there's undue expectations on what exactly Sitek can do with Beady Eye. |
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Post by Lennon2217 on Nov 16, 2012 13:09:26 GMT -5
I think you missed my point completely. I hope Sitek will not allow songs like Aint Got Nothing, Better Man and The Meaning of Soul to make an album. He should just pick the best Liam material and that includes the songs I mentioned. I don't expect any great miracle but I do expect being selective with material when it comes to a tracklisting. Yes, but someone like Gem or Andy, or even Liam want a song like Meaning of Soul on there, it really doesn't matter much what Sitek thinks to be honest. I mean, he can try and order them to not put that song there because he thinks it's crap and tell them to make something else, but if one of them truly believes in a song, then that's kind of it. I don't know, I just feel that at the moment there's undue expectations on what exactly Sitek can do with Beady Eye. I guess that is why I said "I Hope" Sitek can tell the boys when a song is good or go back to the drawing board. It would be nice to have a producer who does that for them. Like Markus Dravs does with Arcade Fire and Coldplay. They bust their asses on a song the band loves only for the producer to dump on it and it never sees the light of day. I believe the band knows this next album is an important one and that is why a guy like Sitek was brought in, quality control. There is a lot riding on this release. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2012 7:36:24 GMT -5
So so good   one of the best versions, along with live on letterman and t in the park. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2012 17:35:49 GMT -5
Wasn't Steve Lillywhite an established, respected producer?
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Post by Let It Bleed on Nov 19, 2012 17:42:34 GMT -5
you can't polish a turd.
God bless.
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Post by spaneli on Nov 19, 2012 17:48:07 GMT -5
Wasn't Steve Lillywhite an established, respected producer? Yes, he is/was. Lillywhite didn't do anything on DGSS that BDI themselves didn't ultimately want imo. It's amazing the bad rap that he's received on this forum. He's most known for working with U2 and the La's. But I personally love his work on Peter Grabiel's self-titled and Johnny Thunder's So Alone. His work on Battle Born is also pretty good. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2012 23:18:52 GMT -5
Great news!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2012 0:37:11 GMT -5
Steve Lillywhite just let them be them. He changed almost nothing. That's the problem, if we can call it a problem.
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Post by Bittersweet Split on Nov 21, 2012 11:39:31 GMT -5
His work on Battle Born is also pretty good. Wasn't that album criticized for having entirely too much filler between the stand out tracks? Both the Killers and Beady Eye have proved in past they can write the songs, and this guy does make some great songs, but both of these bands seem to be struggling with the concept of an album. Not exactly the best example Edit: Not that the guys a bad producer, by any means, but he might not be what is needed |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2012 20:19:04 GMT -5
His work on Battle Born is also pretty good. Both the Killers and Beady Eye have proved in past they can write the songs, and this guy does make some great songs, but both of these bands seem to be struggling with the concept of an album. Not exactly the best example Edit: Not that the guys a bad producer, by any means, but he might not be what is needed but the album has multiple producers, not just lillywhite. |
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Post by manny on Nov 23, 2012 21:32:35 GMT -5
Wasn't that album criticized for having entirely too much filler between the stand out tracks?Both the Killers and Beady Eye have proved in past they can write the songs, and this guy does make some great songs, but both of these bands seem to be struggling with the concept of an album. Not exactly the best example Edit: Not that the guys a bad producer, by any means, but he might not be what is needed but the album has multiple producers, not just lillywhite. And he produced what I think are most of the highlights(Flesh and Bone, Runaways, A Matter of time, Heart of a girl, from here on out and the title track) |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2012 21:41:02 GMT -5
but the album has multiple producers, not just lillywhite. (Flesh and Bone, Runaways, A Matter of time, Heart of a girl, from here on out and the title track) the only standout track i don't think he had a hand in producing is miss atomic bomb (which in my opinion is the best produced track on the record). |
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Post by J-200 on Nov 24, 2012 10:44:01 GMT -5
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Post by gdforever on Nov 24, 2012 10:46:47 GMT -5
Is that a flute?
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Post by Mr. Bigglesworth on Nov 24, 2012 11:01:15 GMT -5
*-* caaaan't wait! if that flute will be used, its getting more and more interesting!
hope andy discovers his guitar settings from songs like "leave them all behind" again! would love shoegaze stuff!
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Post by Let It Bleed on Nov 24, 2012 11:25:35 GMT -5
cowbells and flutes are the keys to good music.
God bless.
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Post by tomlivesforever on Nov 24, 2012 14:35:38 GMT -5
Is that abbey road with all the EMI stuff?
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Post by Lennon2217 on Nov 24, 2012 15:11:17 GMT -5
Is that abbey road with all the EMI stuff? Could be. Hard to say. Noel said during the making of DOYS they had to bring in all the vintage recording gear themselves because it has all been ripped out and replaced with modern stuff since the late 70s. |
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Post by Underneath the sky on Nov 25, 2012 6:48:23 GMT -5
Steve Lillywhite just let them be them. He changed almost nothing. That's the problem, if we can call it a problem. One thing I would say is that Liam's vocals on the album were comfortably some of his worst studio vocals, but on the tour he produced performances that were as good as anything he's done since 2002. I actually think Liam sounds better on some of the live versions than on the studio recordings. Really surprised that Lillywhite didn't do more takes on some of the songs on the album, or at least clean up the vocals a bit more. |
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Nov 4, 2024 5:04:30 GMT -5
Nov 4, 2024 5:04:30 GMT -5