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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2012 11:23:58 GMT -5
I disagree, he's a better lyricist now than 12 years ago. The little James lyrics are appalling but two years after it he wrote born on a different cloud which Noel said had great lyrics, which is pretty high praise really. Some people say I'm outta time feels incomplete, however I think it's his most complete and well structured song he's done, it's a nice 4 minute song and although I didn't think his offering for DGSS was particularly good, the lyrics are definitely superior to hs early stuff No I would agree that his lyrics are better than LJ. But LJ was his first song and taking out LJ, his lyrics have consistently been the same level and haven't grown much. Which was the point I was making. And I think the incompleteness of IOT was the fault of Liam and co. putting the unnecessary Churchill quote there. The song was already complete, but it seemed as if they tried to stretch it out with that quote and it gave the appearance of it being incomplete. The Churchill quote in itself is a poor structuring error, imo. I don't know, I just think he's become better with ideas. His lyrics are relatively the same level and his structures are still lacking. It's a matter or opinion I guess, personally I like the excerpt from one of lennons interviews... But you're never really going to improve as a lyricist especially when you're nearing 40, think of all the great songwriters, Noel, Lennon-McCartney, weller etc... they've not improved as lyricist's over the years really, they might have gathered more ideas through experience but not really improved however they've improved from early work eg. Noel wrote Digsy's dinner and take me away, McCartney and Lennon wrote very basic love songs before improving their ideas just as Liam has with little james to a certain extent... |
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Post by spaneli on Aug 31, 2012 11:26:19 GMT -5
No I would agree that his lyrics are better than LJ. But LJ was his first song and taking out LJ, his lyrics have consistently been the same level and haven't grown much. Which was the point I was making. And I think the incompleteness of IOT was the fault of Liam and co. putting the unnecessary Churchill quote there. The song was already complete, but it seemed as if they tried to stretch it out with that quote and it gave the appearance of it being incomplete. The Churchill quote in itself is a poor structuring error, imo. I don't know, I just think he's become better with ideas. His lyrics are relatively the same level and his structures are still lacking. It's a matter or opinion I guess, personally I like the excerpt from one of lennons interviews... But you're never really going to improve as a lyricist especially when you're nearing 40, think of all the great songwriters, Noel, Lennon-McCartney, weller etc... they've not improved as lyricist's over the years really, they might have gathered more ideas through experience but not really improved however they've improved from early work eg. Noel wrote Digsy's dinner and take me away, McCartney and Lennon wrote very basic love songs before improving their ideas just as Liam has with little james to a certain extent... Yeah, definitely. I agree.  I don't expect him to improve as lyricist. He is what he is at this point. Though I would be happy with him cleaning up a bit more of his structuring errors. |
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Post by truefaith on Aug 31, 2012 11:29:05 GMT -5
I think the lennon message works very well at the end of IOT. I think IOT is a brillant song, as well as soldier on, BWTB or Mornig son or GGTIA. They have melody and some kind of originality, WW has it too. You call it incomplete, I call it his style. Matter of opinion. I think Liam has a real talent as a songwritter, he's good with melodys. Not as good as Noel, but he has a potential that he hasn't fully reach yet IMO. He needs some song to have a better production. And I do think that if IOT was a Noel's song, it woud never have been slated by anyone. I'd say it's a poor style that's kept songs from being better than what they are. Soldier On would be better with structuring that wasn't made for a 2 minute song. IOT would be better without the Lennon quote. Morning Son which is a great song, would be a classic without the repetitive ending. Small mistakes, but mistakes that keep songs from their true potential imo. Which is the frustrating thing, because they really are small mistakes. He could be so much better, if he were more polished. He has the talent as you said, but saying "it's his style" is an excuse I've heard from before by fellow architects and songwriters who were just too lazy to get better and become more polished. That's just my experience. And to be fair, Noel wrong SMC which is an overproduced song and gets slated on this board everyday. So let's not bring up the tiring if Noel or Liam has done this argument. It wasn't to make a Liam v Noel argument. It was to point out that people tend to be harder on Liam. IOT is a very good song, if Liam was an unknown songwritter, everyone would say it's amazing, if Noel had wrote it, everyone would say it's good (not amazing) but since it's Liam people looks at the little falws of it. The song is so good who cares for the "nana" at the start and the lennon quote(which I like). Noel made terrible production mistake on HFB and people don't focus on them at all. As for the lyrics, I don't reeally mind them, it's not like either of the Gallagher have ever written very profound lyrics. I listen to Oasis for the melody, the guitar, the voice, the general spirit, but never for their lyrics, as long as they "sound", I don't mind them so much. |
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Post by Mr. Bigglesworth on Aug 31, 2012 13:33:44 GMT -5
and why do you think all 3 have to improve? if any of them improves and lays down his "old school go for 60s" attitude he could influence the whole band, sound and album. think about shoegazing elements from andy bell, they where there on DGSS but just slightly hidden in the background. if he can bring a bigger influence to the songs the whole structre would change. as much as i love gem as guitarist his songs are the most "comfort zone" songs from DGSS, cause they really sounded most vintage. Liams songs are great but need to be formed by bell and archer so these two ore just one of them has a huge impact on his songs. Just because their albums are suppose to be collaborative efforts. If it's a team effort, then isn't a song more susceptible to a weak link? So wouldn't it be better if they all improved? That's just my opinion. no i mean, i think, that if just one of them improves the whole collaborative efforts would be better. if andy would try new stuff, he would try them in every song not only in his own structured songs. i'm just naming andy all the time cause i think he has the most open minded tast in music. hope he uses it. i think, that if liam has a nice idea and shows them to gem and andy these two are forming the song to the final result, so i think if one of them improve, everything would change. they just need to open their mind more for strings, electronic, trance. just try something the common oasis fan won't expect. |
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Post by Mr. Bigglesworth on Aug 31, 2012 13:36:57 GMT -5
I think the lennon message works very well at the end of IOT. I think IOT is a brillant song, as well as soldier on, BWTB or Mornig son or GGTIA. They have melody and some kind of originality, WW has it too. You call it incomplete, I call it his style. Matter of opinion. I think Liam has a real talent as a songwritter, he's good with melodys. Not as good as Noel, but he has a potential that he hasn't fully reach yet IMO. He needs some song to have a better production. And I do think that if IOT was a Noel's song, it woud never have been slated by anyone. I'd say it's a poor style that's kept songs from being better than what they are. Soldier On would be better with structuring that wasn't made for a 2 minute song. IOT would be better without the Lennon quote. Morning Son which is a great song, would be a classic without the repetitive ending. Small mistakes, but mistakes that keep songs from their true potential imo. Which is the frustrating thing, because they really are small mistakes. He could be so much better, if he were more polished. He has the talent as you said, but saying "it's his style" is an excuse I've heard from before by fellow architects and songwriters (2 ends of the spectrum) who were just too lazy to get better and become more polished. "It's my/his style" is usually a cop out. That's just my experience. And to be fair, Noel wrote SMC which is an overly long song because of poor structuring and one that gets slated on this board often. So let's not bring up the tiring if Noel or Liam has done this argument. thats you opinion. i think the repeating sequences are his style and i really think that for closing an album it's not a bad idead to get a kind of mantra. but like i said for your side, that is just my opinion. we can all agree, that these fellas will never produce an album, that makes us all happy. i loved DGSS but i understand the points you're saying. personally i'm in love with mantra, drone, trance, psychedelic stuff and i'm glad, that they never made an second "whats the story morning glory" |
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Post by RocketMan on Aug 31, 2012 14:05:19 GMT -5
GGTIA is my favourite liam song. great lyrics, very good if not the best melody he has written and really good vocals. i want more in this direction. DBTT was the most modern sounding oasis-album in the 2000s, so they should do more in this style
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Post by underneaththesky on Aug 31, 2012 15:13:54 GMT -5
[quote author=spaneli board=factsandfictionbe thread=73813 post=996642 time=1346429745
And to be fair, Noel wrote SMC which is an overly long song because of poor structuring and one that gets slated on this board often. So let's not bring up the tiring if Noel or Liam has done this argument. [/quote]
well it's your opinion and it's not fair at all.
cos if it 'gets slated' on an internet forum, it might be because it's a good thing afterall.
and what is wrong with the strucutre? nothing's wrong and the solo is fucking ace.
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Post by liamg4e on Sept 9, 2012 14:52:07 GMT -5
Wait, are you people actually trying to say Liam's lyrics haven't improved between Little James and Wigwam? This place makes me despair.
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Post by SunshineLullaby on Sept 9, 2012 16:45:54 GMT -5
Wait, are you people actually trying to say Liam's lyrics haven't improved between Little James and Wigwam? This place makes me despair. I thought the idea was that he improved drastically from Little James to Heathen Chemistry and then hasn't improved much since then. |
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dion
Oasis Roadie
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Post by dion on Sept 10, 2012 18:31:05 GMT -5
Or that one song is far too small a sample size to judge Liams lyrical ability at that stage so any improvement on that is impossible to judge.
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Post by Mr. Bigglesworth on Sept 11, 2012 6:24:42 GMT -5
it's too quiet in the beady eye camp.... where is the mysterious "Blackpool live DVD" cause everybody said, that this concert was filmed.
Beady Eye should have used their few concerts and the olympics to release something. they disappear out of peoples minds and i have to admit at the moment it's pretty boring to be a fan, cause there is nothing you can hold on or go crazy for.
Queens of the stone age released the post "recording ..." on facebook and the people went nuts! few days later a picture of the mixing room, more people went nuts! why isn't Beady Eye giving something to us? just information where they are recording and who is mixing them, just that something would be there to talk about.
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Post by dontlookback82 on Sept 11, 2012 6:57:13 GMT -5
Blackpool was filmed, but it looks like it won't see the light of day which is a shame as it was a fantastic gig by the lads. I was twitting Gem's wife the other day and asked if the lads are in the studio next month to start on the next record, say neither confirmed or nor denied.
Lou Archer @looarcher
@oatcakemills I can neither deny nor confirm that rumour 😳 #arumourisarumour
Personally I took that as a yes, but sshhh.... haha.
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Post by Let It Bleed on Sept 11, 2012 7:33:44 GMT -5
how about this idea for the new BDI album...Noel writes the songs and BDI performs them Elvis style or Brian Wilson and the Beach boys.
just kidding but not really.
God bless.
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Post by Mr. Bigglesworth on Sept 11, 2012 8:04:23 GMT -5
how about this idea for the new BDI album...Noel writes the songs and BDI performs them Elvis style or Brian Wilson and the Beach boys. just kidding but not really. God bless. that wasn't necessary letitbleed, the past LAG songs in oasis and DGSS showed, that they are capable of writing great songs, sure there were fillers, but even those could grow. the follow up to DGSS is even more exciting than the debut, cause i think now they are working out songs and don't use leftovers from oasis. sure noel is great but beady eye are great too, but in a different way. Just want them to release something to keep the fire burning. |
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Post by SunshineLullaby on Sept 11, 2012 8:05:46 GMT -5
Well, I don't know about great...they can write some decent tunes, though.
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Post by Let It Bleed on Sept 11, 2012 8:11:53 GMT -5
how about this idea for the new BDI album...Noel writes the songs and BDI performs them Elvis style or Brian Wilson and the Beach boys. just kidding but not really. God bless. that wasn't necessary letitbleed, the past LAG songs in oasis and DGSS showed, that they are capable of writing great songs, sure there were fillers, but even those could grow. the follow up to DGSS is even more exciting than the debut, cause i think now they are working out songs and don't use leftovers from oasis. sure noel is great but beady eye are great too, but in a different way. Just want them to release something to keep the fire burning. i will say A Bell Will Ring is one of my favorite Oasis songs... but if the new album isn't that good or well-recieved they should just buy songs because BDI are good performers. God bless. |
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Post by dean87bwfc on Sept 11, 2012 9:28:11 GMT -5
Blackpool was filmed, but it looks like it won't see the light of day which is a shame as it was a fantastic gig by the lads. I was twitting Gem's wife the other day and asked if the lads are in the studio next month to start on the next record, say neither confirmed or nor denied. Lou Archer @looarcher @oatcakemills I can neither deny nor confirm that rumour 😳 #arumourisarumour Personally I took that as a yes, but sshhh.... haha. I'd give my right arm to see that Blackpool DVD. Maybe something went wrong in the production, because the band were the best I've ever seen them that night.. and what a date .. 11/11/11 |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2012 9:35:45 GMT -5
I imagine lack of interest scuppered it.
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Post by Mr. Bigglesworth on Sept 11, 2012 9:44:37 GMT -5
I imagine lack of interest scuppered it. i think releasing it during or short time after the olympics and fuji rock gigs etc. would have been great. cause everybody had seen Beady Eye on the TV but nobody knows who they are, beside the former oasis singers new band, if there is nothing to advert nobody cares longer than the show itself lasts, but if there would be a hint of an release some people would have might bought it and discovered beady eye as a stand alone band, not just a new oasis project. |
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Post by dean87bwfc on Sept 11, 2012 9:46:08 GMT -5
It'd be interesting to have the bands view on it really, Oasis had 'Live by the sea' out on their first tour and Noel seems to be doing the same..
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Post by gdforever on Sept 11, 2012 10:00:58 GMT -5
I think lack of interest may have been a factor.
A DVD will only sell a fraction of what a the CD will if you only have 1 CD I would have thought, especially when you are only playing the tunes off that one CD. For an album that only sold 165K it may not have been worth the cost of producing it unfortunately.
I agree that a tour DVD of BDI's camp would probably be really interesting for us fans. Theirs was the tour that had the ups and downs, the struggles, them finding their new balance in the band without Noel. If they had really put themselves out there it could have made for an interesting watch. For all the interviews they did...we don't actually know that much about BDI. Just vague comments about them all working together and no one being tr boss.
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Post by dean87bwfc on Sept 11, 2012 10:06:44 GMT -5
The full Paris Show (which is on youtube) is amazing, it really shows their potential of a live band; albeit in a small theatre venue.
Beady eyes performance on Blackpool night included a lot of B sides too - it would of been a good watch! Plus Liam sounded brilliant
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2012 10:55:53 GMT -5
Well, I don't know about great...they can write some decent tunes, though. |
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Post by Mr. Bigglesworth on Sept 11, 2012 11:07:12 GMT -5
Well, I don't know about great...they can write some decent tunes, though. great post! great tunes, do you know what i mean^^ |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2012 11:37:25 GMT -5
great post! great tunes, do you know what i mean^^ Yeh I think this song deserves more praise because its absolutely class in my opinion, head and shoulders above anything else Beady Eye have done like but its still a great song no doubt. It manages to have the enthusiasm and excitement of a band of 20 year-olds just starting out but with that little touch of class that comes through years of making music that LAG have I suppose. |
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