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Post by Bonehead's Barber on Aug 30, 2012 6:45:52 GMT -5
I'm off - no need for people like that on a fans forum x
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Post by Let It Bleed on Aug 30, 2012 6:51:28 GMT -5
i think BDI are held to too high of standard. they're always gonna be compared to Oasis and Noel Gallagher's one of better songwriters in the last century. i expect their second album to be better than DGSS, that album felt like, "hey, we don't need you(Noel) to make an album". that and the fact most artists/ songwriters don't improve as they reach their 40's.
God bless.
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Post by Mr. Bigglesworth on Aug 30, 2012 10:34:50 GMT -5
i agree with let it bleed, the album was kind of an clearance from noel. i loved it, but it could have been better.
although i love oasis and the gallagher brothers and enjoy every song by them, i have to admit, that i really don't like their musical narrow-mindness. they both have great feeling for melodies and great songs but noone is really interested in trying something different. my hope is that andy bell try to step down from that 60s train they are riding on and bring in some fresh ideas. i love 60s sound as much as i love DGSS but for the next album i want some different and experimental stuff. loved the last kasabian album, cause they really went a different direction with it i think. no pumping bass lines like on the first records and more electronic, melodic, nearly soundtrack influenced stuff, which was a nice homage to the good ol times but had a fresh breeze in it. it was great to put 60s tunes like "la fee verte" beside stuff like "swichtblade smiles". wish that Beady Eye would do something like this too.
just don't stay in your safe corner (both gallaghers!!)
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Post by truefaith on Aug 30, 2012 10:39:32 GMT -5
If BDI was band of unknown people, without a famous rockstar in it, everybody would consider DGSS as a very good album.
An album of an actual new band with tunes as good as FLW, the roller, TMS or TRC are pretty rares.
Wen I see bands being very well reviewed without any real goods tunes, I wonder sometimes.
People always expect BDI to be as good as Noel's songs when they should just enjoy it for what it is. Good music (with some crap in it, but in the end some great songs), an amazing singer, great live shows and some Oasis song in the setlist as a bonus.
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Post by Mr. Bigglesworth on Aug 30, 2012 10:55:01 GMT -5
If BDI was band of unknown people, without a famous rockstar in it, everybody would consider DGSS as a very good album. An album of an actual new band with tunes as good as FLW, the roller, TMS or TRC are pretty rares. Wen I see bands being very well reviewed without any real goods tunes, I wonder sometimes. People always expect BDI to be as good as Noel's songs when they should just enjoy it for what it is. Good music (with some crap in it, but in the end some great songs), an amazing singer, great live shows and some Oasis song in the setlist as a bonus. This! when i think of early stones records, they needed some time to get the courage as songwriters too. "Between the buttons" or "Aftermath" now classics, but back then a bunch of great songs with some fillers, later they grew together and wrote albums like "beggars banquet" or "let it bleed" so i think that Beady Eye can grow as a band too. personally i don't care about the public opinion, in my ears i prefer DGSS to HFB although i really enjoy noels songwriting. love them both but beady eye are more my piece of cake |
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Post by spaneli on Aug 30, 2012 11:11:41 GMT -5
If BDI was band of unknown people, without a famous rockstar in it, everybody would consider DGSS as a very good album. An album of an actual new band with tunes as good as FLW, the roller, TMS or TRC are pretty rares. Wen I see bands being very well reviewed without any real goods tunes, I wonder sometimes. People always expect BDI to be as good as Noel's songs when they should just enjoy it for what it is. Good music (with some crap in it, but in the end some great songs), an amazing singer, great live shows and some Oasis song in the setlist as a bonus. This! when i think of early stones records, they needed some time to get the courage as songwriters too. "Between the buttons" or "Aftermath" now classics, but back then a bunch of great songs with some fillers, later they grew together and wrote albums like "beggars banquet" or "let it bleed" so i think that Beady Eye can grow as a band too. personally i don't care about the public opinion, in my ears i prefer DGSS to HFB although i really enjoy noels songwriting. love them both but beady eye are more my piece of cake Difference is that the Stones weren't in their late 30's to 40's like LAG or Noel are. LAG are guys that have been playing and writing for the past decade. I think they'll gel more which will create a more focused album. But they need to become better songwriters in general. How much better can you really become as a songwriter in your late 30's to 40's? If the follow-up is more focused, that's good enough for me, but I'm not expecting them to magically go up one or two notches as songwriters. I think for the most part, they are what they are right now in that department imo. For me, DGSS is an average album. That's not going to change no matter whose name is on the cover. I would feel better about it being an average album if it were by an actual group of young musicians who were just beginning their career. But the facts are the facts, LAG aren't a young group of musicians just starting out. And that brings a bit of expectation with it, unfortunately. So for me, if the album were by an actual new group, I'd feel better about it, but it wouldn't change it from being an average imo. |
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Post by truefaith on Aug 30, 2012 11:24:33 GMT -5
This! when i think of early stones records, they needed some time to get the courage as songwriters too. "Between the buttons" or "Aftermath" now classics, but back then a bunch of great songs with some fillers, later they grew together and wrote albums like "beggars banquet" or "let it bleed" so i think that Beady Eye can grow as a band too. personally i don't care about the public opinion, in my ears i prefer DGSS to HFB although i really enjoy noels songwriting. love them both but beady eye are more my piece of cake Difference is that the Stones weren't in their late 30's to 40's like LAG or Noel are. LAG are guys that have been playing and writing for the past decade. I think they'll gel more which will create a more focused album. But they need to become better songwriters in general. How much better can you really become as a songwriter in your late 30's to 40's? If the follow-up is more focused, that's good enough for me, but I'm not expecting them to magically go up one or two notches as songwriters. I think for the most part, they are what they are right now in that department imo. For me, DGSS is an average album. That's not going to change no matter whose name is on the cover. I would feel better about it being an average album if it were by an actual group of young musicians who were just beginning their career. But the facts are the facts, LAG aren't a young group of musicians just starting out. And that brings a bit of expectation with it, unfortunately. So for me, if the album were by an actual new group, I'd feel better about it, but it wouldn't change it from being an average imo. Don't you like Ride? you can like his work in Oasis or not, but when you said "in the past decade", you seem to forget that Andy has been very succesfull in a band that is still quoted as the best of shoegazing. It's quite diminishing of is past work the way you talk about him. But I agree he never really shine in his Oasis work bar TUTS and FLW. |
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Post by olesiadudnik on Aug 30, 2012 13:26:26 GMT -5
I'm rarely on this site but whenever I am and i read through the comments I either skip through Let It Bleeds' comments or read them and get angry because he isn't funny. He doesn't impress anyone and nobody goes to bed at night thinking 'Fuck me I'd like to meet that guy' one of my goals in life is to annoy people just like you, and i'm really, really good at it. and the more some of you whine about it the more annoying i'll be. and no, you would not wanna meet me in real life. i'm fairly tame on this forum compared to real life. God bless. LOL you petulant child ...Hallowed be thy name/ Thy Kingdom come/ Thy will be done |
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Post by Mr. Bigglesworth on Aug 31, 2012 8:15:51 GMT -5
This! when i think of early stones records, they needed some time to get the courage as songwriters too. "Between the buttons" or "Aftermath" now classics, but back then a bunch of great songs with some fillers, later they grew together and wrote albums like "beggars banquet" or "let it bleed" so i think that Beady Eye can grow as a band too. personally i don't care about the public opinion, in my ears i prefer DGSS to HFB although i really enjoy noels songwriting. love them both but beady eye are more my piece of cake Difference is that the Stones weren't in their late 30's to 40's like LAG or Noel are. LAG are guys that have been playing and writing for the past decade. I think they'll gel more which will create a more focused album. But they need to become better songwriters in general. How much better can you really become as a songwriter in your late 30's to 40's? If the follow-up is more focused, that's good enough for me, but I'm not expecting them to magically go up one or two notches as songwriters. I think for the most part, they are what they are right now in that department imo. For me, DGSS is an average album. That's not going to change no matter whose name is on the cover. I would feel better about it being an average album if it were by an actual group of young musicians who were just beginning their career. But the facts are the facts, LAG aren't a young group of musicians just starting out. And that brings a bit of expectation with it, unfortunately. So for me, if the album were by an actual new group, I'd feel better about it, but it wouldn't change it from being an average imo. don't really think that songwriting ability has something to do with your age. why the hell should only 20 year old lads be able to improve their songwriting?` look at nick cave for example. this guy had made noise, then electric folk blues and great piano ballads, gospel and now when he is around 50 he forms a small group called grinderman and does something he has never done before (psychedelic garage rock) |
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Post by spaneli on Aug 31, 2012 8:52:45 GMT -5
Difference is that the Stones weren't in their late 30's to 40's like LAG or Noel are. LAG are guys that have been playing and writing for the past decade. I think they'll gel more which will create a more focused album. But they need to become better songwriters in general. How much better can you really become as a songwriter in your late 30's to 40's? If the follow-up is more focused, that's good enough for me, but I'm not expecting them to magically go up one or two notches as songwriters. I think for the most part, they are what they are right now in that department imo. For me, DGSS is an average album. That's not going to change no matter whose name is on the cover. I would feel better about it being an average album if it were by an actual group of young musicians who were just beginning their career. But the facts are the facts, LAG aren't a young group of musicians just starting out. And that brings a bit of expectation with it, unfortunately. So for me, if the album were by an actual new group, I'd feel better about it, but it wouldn't change it from being an average imo. don't really think that songwriting ability has something to do with your age. why the hell should only 20 year old lads be able to improve their songwriting?` look at nick cave for example. this guy had made noise, then electric folk blues and great piano ballads, gospel and now when he is around 50 he forms a small group called grinderman and does something he has never done before (psychedelic garage rock) Usually, you hit your creative peak in your 20's. Certainly, that's not the case for everyone. There are obviously exceptions. But it's not just one above age 35 songwriter that some are asking to improve, it's 3. That's a fairly treacherous hope and one that has a significantly less chance of happening. I could see one of them improving, but all 3 at the same time? That's a little less believable. I put more stock in them just being more focused and that improving their second album, than all 3 magically improving in their songwriting at the same time. |
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Post by oasis6 on Aug 31, 2012 9:23:20 GMT -5
I feel the issue of wishing for more rockers will land you more SOTEOTNs than FLWs. For me, if the album was full of TMSs and Wigwams, I'd be very pleased.
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Post by Let It Bleed on Aug 31, 2012 9:31:32 GMT -5
I feel the issue of wishing for more rockers will land you more SOTEOTNs than FLWs. For me, if the album was full of TMSs and Wigwams, I'd be very pleased. the chorus of SOTEOTN is one my favorite parts of DGSS. i don't care if it's an album of slow songs or uptempo songs, i just want a good album. God bless. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2012 9:47:14 GMT -5
Difference is that the Stones weren't in their late 30's to 40's like LAG or Noel are. LAG are guys that have been playing and writing for the past decade. I think they'll gel more which will create a more focused album. But they need to become better songwriters in general. How much better can you really become as a songwriter in your late 30's to 40's? If the follow-up is more focused, that's good enough for me, but I'm not expecting them to magically go up one or two notches as songwriters. I think for the most part, they are what they are right now in that department imo. For me, DGSS is an average album. That's not going to change no matter whose name is on the cover. I would feel better about it being an average album if it were by an actual group of young musicians who were just beginning their career. But the facts are the facts, LAG aren't a young group of musicians just starting out. And that brings a bit of expectation with it, unfortunately. So for me, if the album were by an actual new group, I'd feel better about it, but it wouldn't change it from being an average imo. Don't you like Ride? you can like his work in Oasis or not, but when you said "in the past decade", you seem to forget that Andy has been very succesfull in a band that is still quoted as the best of shoegazing. It's quite diminishing of is past work the way you talk about him. But I agree he never really shine in his Oasis work bar TUTS and FLW. Isn't that like making the Champions League and finishing in dead last place? Is that a real accomplishment? I, like many people, hope that the 2nd release comes out better than the first, but I also realize that they will NEVER release anything that become truly classic, I just can't see it. Noel won't either most likely though. That's just were they happen to be at this moment. |
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Post by RocketMan on Aug 31, 2012 9:49:27 GMT -5
I feel the issue of wishing for more rockers will land you more SOTEOTNs than FLWs. For me, if the album was full of TMSs and Wigwams, I'd be very pleased. i don't care if it's an album of slow songs or uptempo songs, i just want a good album. God bless. you mean the beatles classic line "Get Back, Get Back Get Back to where you once belonged" ?  |
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Post by Let It Bleed on Aug 31, 2012 9:51:28 GMT -5
the chorus of SOTEOTN is one my favorite parts of DGSS.i don't care if it's an album of slow songs or uptempo songs, i just want a good album. God bless. you mean the beatles classic line "Get Back, Get Back Get Back to where you once belonged" ? haha.  |
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Post by truefaith on Aug 31, 2012 10:11:17 GMT -5
Don't you like Ride? you can like his work in Oasis or not, but when you said "in the past decade", you seem to forget that Andy has been very succesfull in a band that is still quoted as the best of shoegazing. It's quite diminishing of is past work the way you talk about him. But I agree he never really shine in his Oasis work bar TUTS and FLW. Isn't that like making the Champions League and finishing in dead last place? Is that a real accomplishment? I, like many people, hope that the 2nd release comes out better than the first, but I also realize that they will NEVER release anything that become truly classic, I just can't see it. Noel won't either most likely though. That's just were they happen to be at this moment. And what if they didn't? An album doesn't need to become a classic to be good. HFB isn't a classic, but it's good. I don't see them making an album as good as HFB, but I can see them doing an album with more variety and I can see them making a better album than DGSS. It's enough for me at this point. I mean as far as classic goes, Liam and Noel have been involved in two timeless classics. Nowhere by Ride is a classic,(not to the same extent as Oasis, but it's a very well known and appreciate album), so Andy hadd a good carreer too. I don't ask 40's songwritter to make classic album, I just enjoy the music they still make until they eventually stop (or reform Oasis). As for improving as a songwritter, we can agree that Liam has over the past decade. |
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Post by spaneli on Aug 31, 2012 10:26:42 GMT -5
Isn't that like making the Champions League and finishing in dead last place? Is that a real accomplishment? I, like many people, hope that the 2nd release comes out better than the first, but I also realize that they will NEVER release anything that become truly classic, I just can't see it. Noel won't either most likely though. That's just were they happen to be at this moment. As for improving as a songwritter, we can agree that Liam has over the past decade. Has he really? I mean, he's improved on having initial concepts and ideas. But he certainly hasn't improved lyrically, that's for sure. And he still struggles in trying to have a structure with his songs that last longer than 2 and half minutes. I don't think he as a songwriter has improved, that is the actual act of writing, editing, and completing a song. I think he's brought better ideas, and Gem has become a lot better at helping him realize those ideas. But in terms of him doing the craft of songwriting, I haven't seen much improvement in his lyrics or structuring (especially his structuring) tbh. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2012 10:58:13 GMT -5
As for improving as a songwritter, we can agree that Liam has over the past decade. Has he really? I mean, he's improved on having initial concepts and ideas. But he certainly hasn't improved lyrically, that's for sure. And he still struggles in trying to have a structure with his songs that last longer than 2 and half minutes. I don't think he as a songwriter has improved, that is the actual act of writing, editing, and completing a song. I think he's brought better ideas, and Gem has become a lot better at helping him realize those ideas. But in terms of him doing the craft of songwriting, I haven't seen much improvement in his lyrics or structuring (especially his structuring) tbh. I disagree, he's a better lyricist now than 12 years ago. The little James lyrics are appalling but two years after it he wrote born on a different cloud which Noel said had great lyrics, which is pretty high praise really. Some people say I'm outta time feels incomplete, however I think it's his most complete and well structured song he's done, it's a nice 4 minute song and although I didn't think his offering for DGSS was particularly good, the lyrics are definitely superior to hs early stuff |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2012 11:04:11 GMT -5
Liam was the 2nd best lyricist in Oasis...
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Post by spaneli on Aug 31, 2012 11:04:39 GMT -5
Has he really? I mean, he's improved on having initial concepts and ideas. But he certainly hasn't improved lyrically, that's for sure. And he still struggles in trying to have a structure with his songs that last longer than 2 and half minutes. I don't think he as a songwriter has improved, that is the actual act of writing, editing, and completing a song. I think he's brought better ideas, and Gem has become a lot better at helping him realize those ideas. But in terms of him doing the craft of songwriting, I haven't seen much improvement in his lyrics or structuring (especially his structuring) tbh. I disagree, he's a better lyricist now than 12 years ago. The little James lyrics are appalling but two years after it he wrote born on a different cloud which Noel said had great lyrics, which is pretty high praise really. Some people say I'm outta time feels incomplete, however I think it's his most complete and well structured song he's done, it's a nice 4 minute song and although I didn't think his offering for DGSS was particularly good, the lyrics are definitely superior to hs early stuff No I would agree that his lyrics are better than LJ. But LJ was his first song and taking out LJ, his lyrics have consistently been the same level and haven't grown much. Which was the point I was making. And I think the incompleteness of IOT was the fault of Liam and co. putting the unnecessary Churchill quote there. The song was already complete, but it seemed as if they tried to stretch it out with that quote and it gave the appearance of it being incomplete. The Churchill quote in itself is a poor structuring error, imo. I don't know, I just think he's become better with ideas. His lyrics are relatively the same level and his structures are still lacking. |
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Post by spaneli on Aug 31, 2012 11:05:18 GMT -5
Liam was the 2nd best lyricist in Oasis... Agree. Simplistic, yet mostly effective. |
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Post by Mr. Bigglesworth on Aug 31, 2012 11:07:31 GMT -5
don't really think that songwriting ability has something to do with your age. why the hell should only 20 year old lads be able to improve their songwriting?` look at nick cave for example. this guy had made noise, then electric folk blues and great piano ballads, gospel and now when he is around 50 he forms a small group called grinderman and does something he has never done before (psychedelic garage rock) Usually, you hit your creative peak in your 20's. Certainly, that's not the case for everyone. There are obviously exceptions. But it's not just one above age 35 songwriter that some are asking to improve, it's 3. That's a fairly treacherous hope and one that has a significantly less chance of happening. I could see one of them improving, but all 3 at the same time? That's a little less believable. I put more stock in them just being more focused and that improving their second album, than all 3 magically improving in their songwriting at the same time. and why do you think all 3 have to improve? if any of them improves and lays down his "old school go for 60s" attitude he could influence the whole band, sound and album. think about shoegazing elements from andy bell, they where there on DGSS but just slightly hidden in the background. if he can bring a bigger influence to the songs the whole structre would change. as much as i love gem as guitarist his songs are the most "comfort zone" songs from DGSS, cause they really sounded most vintage. Liams songs are great but need to be formed by bell and archer so these two ore just one of them has a huge impact on his songs. |
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Post by truefaith on Aug 31, 2012 11:11:38 GMT -5
I disagree, he's a better lyricist now than 12 years ago. The little James lyrics are appalling but two years after it he wrote born on a different cloud which Noel said had great lyrics, which is pretty high praise really. Some people say I'm outta time feels incomplete, however I think it's his most complete and well structured song he's done, it's a nice 4 minute song and although I didn't think his offering for DGSS was particularly good, the lyrics are definitely superior to hs early stuff No I would agree that his lyrics are better than LJ. But LJ was his first song and taking out LJ, his lyrics have consistently been the same level and haven't grown much. Which was the point I was making. And I think the incompleteness of IOT was the fault of Liam putting the unnecessary Churchill quote there. The song was already complete, but it seemed as if they tried to stretch it out with that quote and it gave the appearance of it being incomplete. The Churchill quote in itself is a poor structuring error, imo. I don't know, I just think he's become better with ideas. His lyrics are relatively the same level and his structures are still lacking ,which is another thing that hasn't improved much over the years. I think the lennon message works very well at the end of IOT. I think IOT is a brillant song, as well as soldier on, BWTB or Mornig son or GGTIA. They have melody and some kind of originality, WW has it too. You call it incomplete, I call it his style. Matter of opinion. I think Liam has a real talent as a songwritter, he's good with melodys. Not as good as Noel, but he has a potential that he hasn't fully reach yet IMO. He needs some song to have a better production. And I do think that if IOT was a Noel's song, it woud never have been slated by anyone. |
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Post by spaneli on Aug 31, 2012 11:11:53 GMT -5
and why do you think all 3 have to improve? if any of them improves and lays down his "old school go for 60s" attitude he could influence the whole band, sound and album. think about shoegazing elements from andy bell, they where there on DGSS but just slightly hidden in the background. if he can bring a bigger influence to the songs the whole structre would change. as much as i love gem as guitarist his songs are the most "comfort zone" songs from DGSS, cause they really sounded most vintage. Liams songs are great but need to be formed by bell and archer so these two ore just one of them has a huge impact on his songs. Just because their albums are suppose to be collaborative efforts. If it's a team effort, then isn't a song more susceptible to a weak link? So wouldn't it be better if they all improved? That's just my opinion. |
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Post by spaneli on Aug 31, 2012 11:15:45 GMT -5
I think the lennon message works very well at the end of IOT. I think IOT is a brillant song, as well as soldier on, BWTB or Mornig son or GGTIA. They have melody and some kind of originality, WW has it too. You call it incomplete, I call it his style. Matter of opinion. I think Liam has a real talent as a songwritter, he's good with melodys. Not as good as Noel, but he has a potential that he hasn't fully reach yet IMO. He needs some song to have a better production. And I do think that if IOT was a Noel's song, it woud never have been slated by anyone. I'd say it's a poor style that's kept songs from being better than what they are. Soldier On would be better with structuring that wasn't made for a 2 minute song. IOT would be better without the Lennon quote. Morning Son which is a great song, would be a classic without the repetitive ending. Small mistakes, but mistakes that keep songs from their true potential imo. Which is the frustrating thing, because they really are small mistakes. He could be so much better, if he were more polished. He has the talent as you said, but saying "it's his style" is an excuse I've heard from before by fellow architects and songwriters (2 ends of the spectrum) who were just too lazy to get better and become more polished. "It's my/his style" is usually a cop out. That's just my experience. And to be fair, Noel wrote SMC which is an overly long song because of poor structuring and one that gets slated on this board often. So let's not bring up the tiring if Noel or Liam has done this argument. |
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