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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2012 11:43:21 GMT -5
Dream On - Itunes Chart #142
SAHITS - Itunes Chart #92
all comments are extremely positive towards SATITS and not only that its the highest rated song by NGHFB on itunes completely....
this is interesting to say the least... could the AA album do better than we initially thought??
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2012 11:45:42 GMT -5
SAHITS is not even really a HFB's song if you think about it. But that is interesting to see the disparity of the two tracks.
does anyone else think the acronym 'SAHITS' reads like 'shitsa'?
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Post by dontgoaway92 on Mar 13, 2012 11:48:01 GMT -5
Pisses me off that the AA album is such a long way away:(
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Post by spaneli on Mar 13, 2012 12:05:47 GMT -5
Those numbers aren't including pre-orders, correct?
I don't think that the AA album will be the commercial disaster that some are prediction. Noel has luxury that most artists do not have. He has stable and loyal fanbase that will usually support their artist. This album ay not sell as well HFB, but I don't think it could do any worse than say DGSS (not to say that DGSS is the bottom of record sales or something).
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Post by manualex on Mar 13, 2012 12:09:45 GMT -5
This is the consecuenc of being Dream On a 4th single and SAITS a new track(most people already own the A-side, so they buy the Bside only)
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Post by gdforever on Mar 13, 2012 12:24:56 GMT -5
I have a read a few singles reviews and they have been far from kind about Dream On. That might have something to do with it as well.
This single will be an anticlimax IMO. I still think it was the wrong choice for a single.
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on Mar 13, 2012 12:27:52 GMT -5
I'm surprised. While I, too, think Dream On is a very lackluster song that had no place of being a single; it has gotten great exposure on XFM, so one wonders why it hasn't sold more.....?
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Post by spaneli on Mar 13, 2012 12:35:11 GMT -5
I don't think single choice would have mattered a great deal. It's the fourth single with one new b-side. As Manu has pointed out, it's just the symptom of people having the album and just wanting to buy the new track rather than the A-side. Would EOTR or RM have made that much of a difference? I don't know. Those songs might have made it to the Top 40, but I don't think they would have been break through songs in the end as a fourth single or made it to the Top 20 or anything like that. Which really makes decision of a fourth single, inconsequential in the end. Because I don't think single choices are as important by the time you get to the fourth single. The chances of high potential for success declines drastically imo.
And also Noel hasn't been able to do as much promo work as he was able to do with the first two singles and I think that also has something to do with it too.
It just seems that today, your highest charting singles will usually occur prior to album being released and lowest charting singles will be after the album has been released.
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Post by GIMH on Mar 13, 2012 12:41:14 GMT -5
Spaneli is spot on
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Post by uboasis on Mar 13, 2012 13:13:18 GMT -5
I was thinking along the same lines as Manu as well. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the fact that in the 'old days' if you wanted to buy SAHITS, you'd be forced to purchase Dream On again even though you had the album already. Now, with digital downloads, you can exclusively purchase the b-sides. This would seem to have a big impact on the singles charts. Am I missing something? In other words, 4th singles had much better chances in 1996 than in 2012 relative to first singles for established bands. I don't think single choice would have mattered a great deal. It's the fourth single with one new b-side. As Manu has pointed out, it's just the symptom of people having the album and just wanting to buy the new track rather than the A-side. Would EOTR or RM have made that much of a difference? I don't know. Those songs might have made it to the Top 40, but I don't think they would have been break through songs in the end as a fourth single or made it to the Top 20 or anything like that. Which really makes decision of a fourth single, inconsequential in the end. Because I don't think single choices are as important by the time you get to the fourth single. The chances of high potential for success declines drastically imo. And also Noel hasn't been able to do as much promo work as he was able to do with the first two singles and I think that also has something to do with it too. It just seems that today, your highest charting singles will usually occur prior to album being released and lowest charting singles will be after the album has been released. |
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Post by andymorris on Mar 13, 2012 13:13:36 GMT -5
Yep. It's time to forget about singles post albums. Release 2 or 3 singles before the record, then that's it is the way to go now. Most bands dont bother with it now and release one or two songs before the album, then bonus tracks on itunes and voilà.
If Dream On had been release as first single it would have gone to number One. I dont see the hate for it, it's a great song with never heard before vocal twists from Noel Gallagher.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2012 13:23:59 GMT -5
In other words, 4th singles had much better chances in 1996 than in 2012 relative to first singles for established bands. This. In 96 you had to go and buy the CD or Vinyl to get the B-Sides, no picking or choosing. Tbh with album tracks being offered separately I don't see the point of singles at all these days other than 1st single being a teaser... |
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Post by gdforever on Mar 13, 2012 14:15:06 GMT -5
I don't think single choice would have mattered a great deal. It's the fourth single with one new b-side. As Manu has pointed out, it's just the symptom of people having the album and just wanting to buy the new track rather than the A-side. Would EOTR or RM have made that much of a difference? I don't know. Those songs might have made it to the Top 40, but I don't think they would have been break through songs in the end as a fourth single or made it to the Top 20 or anything like that. Which really makes decision of a fourth single, inconsequential in the end. Because I don't think single choices are as important by the time you get to the fourth single. The chances of high potential for success declines drastically imo. And also Noel hasn't been able to do as much promo work as he was able to do with the first two singles and I think that also has something to do with it too. It just seems that today, your highest charting singles will usually occur prior to album being released and lowest charting singles will be after the album has been released. I'm sorry but I think you are wrong that singles choice has NOTHING to do with how successful a single is in both the charts AND in it's effect on album sales. Sure there won't be as much interest in singles post album release. Maybe people WILL chose to buy the album rather than the single but the wrong single doesn't serve the album well either. A moderately popular single WOULD serve the album for infinitely better than a flop. Even if it only squeaked into the top 40. Rather than one that might be outside the top 75 or even the top 100 Would any of them have been a HIT breakout song. Maybe not...but they would have showcased him and his album on radio better, etc. It possible than yet another single could chart below the CURRENT position of WAL! Dream On is nothing special and you know it. It's generally thought of as average amongst the fan base and I don't see anything in it that will translate to anything more than passable when placed on the radio. EOTR is a GREAT song. Broken Arrow is a GREAT song, in my opinion although that is a bit more of a controversial statement. And now likely neither of them will be heard by the lions share of the population. Instead they'll hear one of the least impressive songs on the album. The idea that it doesn't matter what is put on the radio doesn't matter is bullshit. If you have released an album with very little single potential then fair enough you are struggling. But there IS single potential on HFB and it isn't being taken advantage of. I just can't imagine a non-fan hearing DO on the radio and saying I HAVE to find out where that tune is from. And THAT is what you need a single to do for it to do it's job regardless of whether it is the 1st 2nd or 4th single. I agree that post release singles are a thing of the past...but the album is out...working with what they have? DO was a mistake IMO. Put out something great or don't bother at all. If the single falls off the charts from somewhere around 100 how much will it really have help the album at all? It would even have been worth the price of the video |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2012 14:20:08 GMT -5
Dream On could have been a Be Here Now b-side.
It's awesome.
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Post by GIMH on Mar 13, 2012 14:41:45 GMT -5
I agree that there are better songs than Dream On but it seemed an obvious single choice to me. So damn catchy.
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Post by spaneli on Mar 13, 2012 15:06:34 GMT -5
I really don't want to debate you gd because I'm actually on a break from debating.  But anyways I'll humor you. Yes, in a perfect world the correct fourth single choice would get to to the Top 40 and would produce at least a little more good press than a flop (obviously this depends on it getting to the Top 40). Yes, a good fourth choice would lead to it getting played on the radio and someone listening and going out and buying the album because of it. Yet, if this song did max out and get to the Top 40, I don't see how beneficial it would be toward the album for a single to scrap the Top 40. Would it be better than flop? Yes. It would get a "bit" more people into Noel. But that doesn't warrant saying that the fourth single choice has any great significance or any sizable significance. Secondly, obviously when you're debating on whether to release a fourth single you're gauging radio audiences, how much of the audience likes Noel, dislikes Noel, haven't heard the song, haven't bought the album, are willing to buy the album etc. And you're trying to put them all in this cross section to see how the percentages shake out toward either a peak in interest or a buying of the album. Remember, this isn't Beady Eye (sorry Beady Eye fans). If you wanted a good look at Noel and his music and wanted to be swayed by it, you saw him on the Brits. You're going to need more than a choice of single to peak people's interest. You're going to need promotion. In the end, I never said that the fourth single was useless. All I said that it's not going to be the thing that going to cause droves of people to run out and buy the album. And that it didn't matter a great deal (not, I didn't saying "not at all"). You took my comments to the extreme. The closest I ever got to saying that the fourth single didn't hold weight was when I called it "inconsequential" , but for the rest of the post all I said was that it did not matter as much. You're arguing for arguments sake because you just plain in fact do not like the single choice. I don't mind the single in the end. I'm not saying it's good or bad. I'm just saying that I don't mind it. Besides, I don't think they should release a fourth single unless they're willing to properly promote it. Which in the end is what matters more than the actual single choice imo, especially when you get to the fourth single. You can choose RM, BA, EOTR etc, but if you don't have the proper promotion then that choice of singe will not matter "much". |
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Post by gdforever on Mar 13, 2012 18:11:07 GMT -5
Calling song choice inconsequential is saying that you don't think it matters...essentially that it is of no consequence. I think WHAT you put out does make a difference...it is OF CONSEQUENCE.
Sure promotion matters to a certain extent...but it also needs to be able to sell itself even if Noel talking about it everywhere. It gets play on radio...which is the best you can hope for for a fourth single. There should be no better support for a single or album than having people HEAR it.
Radio, TV show, and magazines are hardly gonna be clamoring to get a feature of Noel to talk about a 4th single off an album 5 months old. Publicity opportunities are not inexhaustible...I don't know what you expect. He's basically been on every major radio station in the UK probably a couple times in the past 5 months...including Radio 1 who don't even play him!
But if you put out something that people like to listen to and catches peoples attention on the radio that is the best thing you can do by the time that it gets to the fourth single because promotional channels will probably be drying up. All you have left to promote you is the strength of your music.
As you say...this isn't BDI who struggled with AirPlay in the UK so by the time they got to TBGO nobody but the hardcore fans even knew they were even still releasing singles.
Noel is still being play listed on XFM, Radio 2, Absolute Radio, etc. The only one not playing him is Radio 1...consistent with how it has been the last 8 months.
This isn't like IIHAG in the US where he needed to promote it for it even go get heard. Noel already HAS radio support in the UK. He doesn't need to BE there to solicit support for it. And he had already done most of the TV available for him.
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Post by spaneli on Mar 13, 2012 20:59:00 GMT -5
C'mon gd, you're busting me because of one word. Take the context of the whole post. Let's not nit pick. The whole post obviously did not say that the fourth single didn't matter at all. You're good enough for that. The effect that you're speaking to in my opinion is a minimum effect. You're hoping that someone who has been listening to those radio stations haven't either a.) already heard 2-3 of the singles off the album already b.) that they haven't bought the album already c.) that somehow hearing a third or fourth song is going to cause them to either buy an album that they already haven't bought or take a look at an artist that they probably know already. It's not a very large percentage in my opinion. I don't even think it's an average percentage. Promotion makes a difference (a little more of a difference than single choice), the single choice makes a difference (not a large difference, but a difference), but when you get to the fourth single those things just do not make a great impact. They might make a small impact, but that's about it right about now. In the end, it seems that we are both splitting hairs and I really don't want to do 2 pages worth of debate knowing that we'll be nit picking small details and shades of grey in each other's arguments. |
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Post by gdforever on Mar 13, 2012 22:07:12 GMT -5
If they had released something that showed a different but great side of the album it could definitley make a significant difference.
You are absolutely right that there is nothing exceptional in Dream On that they haven't heard on the other 3 singles. WAL has more energy. TDOYAM has the trumpets but to better use. The only thing DO has is a bit of a catchy chorus...but all Noel's songs have catchy hooks. It shows no novel reason for the people to think there is something on the album for them that hasn't already been shown on the previous singles. On it's own it's not going to sway many who have already heard the rest of the singles.
EOTR however DOES show something that they haven't heard. The epic orchestral side of the album hasn't been showcased yet.
No, no one will be hearing a tune a not have heard a previous HFB single. But that doesn't mean if they haven't liked IIHAG, WAL, and TDOYAM that they won't like a different dimension of Noel's writing if it's show to them. The three singles so fat have shown three different dimensions of the album...which is why I think they have been good choices. DO has no new dimension to show people.
There will be tons of people who have thought the singles so far have been OK but not worth buying the album for. But another single is another chance to show THOSE people that the album is worth checking out.
Absolutely hearing a great song that they hadn't heard before could make them decide to check out the album. To say that song quality has minimal effect on how effective a single is at promoting an album is so wrong.
The purpose of a single is to show people what you have to offer. If your album is amazing and you release the wrong singles to radio...how will anyone ever know what they are missing out on by not checking it out?
Sure promotion would help. But A) Noel has already done a lot of promo the past 5 months and there are only so many opportunities...he's had a featured interview on mostly outlets in the UK the past 5 months B) even of he were promoting it more when he is out promoting a single, the single that he plays WILL make a difference about whether or not those interviews translate into sales. He can be the most entertainly guest on TV or radio...but if the song they play or that he gets up and plays is not his best offering...people will think he is amusing but that his music is meh. Hence no album sold.
Of course no single is going to make a massive difference 5 months out. The point of the fourth single was a last push for sales from people on the fence. And DO is a really anemic push.
At this point they are trying to get the tough sells to buy the album...ones that haven't been swayed by 3 singles and massive numbers of interviews and preformances. Putting out a middling 4th single...I'm sorry...who are you trying to convince?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2012 22:23:13 GMT -5
I am all for healthy debate, but I can't get through one single post between the two of you. Is it necessary to post a novel to explain your points?
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Post by spaneli on Mar 13, 2012 22:28:39 GMT -5
I don't think that gd gets the concept of agree to disagree.  |
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Post by gdforever on Mar 13, 2012 22:43:40 GMT -5
I don't think that gd gets the concept of agree to disagree. Say hello to Mr. Pot. Worth noting that I did not challenge YOUR opinion. You challenged MINE and then got annoyed when I defended it. If anyone should learn to agree to disagree it's YOU. Also...maybe YOU need to read the posts again. Because my disagreement with you isn't semantics or a single word or even a small thing. It's fundamental. It's a fundamental disagreement with you about whether or not putting out a totally unremarkable single is less beneficial than putting out an excellent one. Which you have maintained beyond a single phrase. Your opinion is apparent in your every reply and I think you are wrong. You apparently can't even grasp what I disagree with you about even after several long posts. Your a lost cause here You keep spinning it into some sort of discussion about how much promotion matters like that has any bearing on what I disagree with you on. A bad single is not as good for a promotion as a great one regardless of how much promo Noel does. And I think the difference between the two results is significant. |
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Post by Silence Dogood on Mar 13, 2012 22:57:13 GMT -5
why is this "news" ?
Dream On's been out for months, the other one's a new(ish) song not many have heard.
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Post by thelastgadfly on Mar 13, 2012 23:18:36 GMT -5
We're talking about a very small sample of the population here. Singles just don't sell like they use to, so I wouldn't read too much into the comments about the track. Since 'Shoot a Hole...' is a previously unreleased track, it's not surprising that it is outselling the fourth single of an album that has been out for five months.
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Post by spaneli on Mar 13, 2012 23:47:25 GMT -5
I don't think that gd gets the concept of agree to disagree. Say hello to Mr. Pot. Worth noting that I did not challenge YOUR opinion. You challenged MINE and then got annoyed when I defended it. If anyone should learn to agree to disagree it's YOU. Also...maybe YOU need to read the posts again. Because my disagreement with you isn't semantics or a single word or even a small thing. It's fundamental. It's a fundamental disagreement with you about whether or not putting out a totally unremarkable single is less beneficial than putting out an excellent one. Which you have maintained beyond a single phrase. Your opinion is apparent in your every reply and I think you are wrong. You apparently can't even grasp what I disagree with you about even after several long posts. Your a lost cause here You keep spinning it into some sort of discussion about how much promotion matters like that has any bearing on what I disagree with you on. A bad single is not as good for a promotion as a great one regardless of how much promo Noel does. And I think the difference between the two results is significant. Gd, look. I don't know how much you're reading into my post but it seems like you're overreacting. Where was I "annoyed"? I just said that I didn't want to make this into a long debate. Where you're getting annoyed at, I don't get. I'm sorry. Maybe I should reread my posts to see where I sounded "annoyed" that you were disagreeing me. I'm sorry I just don't see it. I'm sure you'll find the quotes or words that I said that you took exception to, but I think that seriously overreacting. If I sounded annoyed I don't think it was on purpose. Again. I think we both agree that neither of us are particular excited about DO being a single. I don't think either of us think that it will have a great impact. Unless I've misread something. It seems as if the only thing we're disagreeing about is what the quality of single Noel should release and how that affects the measure of impact that the single ultimately has. Am I wrong to assume that? I really don't get what this tiff is over. I don't believe the quality necessarily matters, while you obviously do. The only other disagreement is that I believe that promotion plays a large role in the impact of the single (maybe just as much as the single choice), while again you're more centralized on the quality of the work Noel puts out. I think that this is splitting hairs because in the end, I don't think the the fourth single can make much of an impact. We can debate the size of the impact and whether the quality of the song will dictate the size of that impact. It's why i feel like we are splitting hairs. We're debating how much the quality of something he puts out will ultimately affect the albums sales, when it seems that either way the affect may be minimal. It's the maximum of that minimum which it seems like we're also wondering when it comes to the single choice. But in the end, I think that impact will be relatively small. It's just a matter of how small. Now we can debate how much pride Noel should take in his work, but I think that that might be a seperate debate from what the impact of a fourth single may be. And what's this about me challenging your opinion first? What does that have to do with anything? Are any of us marking our territory or something? I don't know. Maybe I'm missing something. I mean, let's just agree to disagree. |
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