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Post by icebreath on Jul 7, 2011 8:46:25 GMT -5
Finally someone has the guts to point out the elephant in the room after yesterday's conference! For all the arguing, for all the fights, all the Oasis history - only one person doesn't get on with people, ex band mates, etc. I'm a proud fan of both Gallaghers, but that person isn't Liam. Really? Liam's still in contact with Tony, Whitey, Bonehead and Guigs? it has better relationship with those than Noel.Bonehead was at the first Beady Eye gig and Tony in a recent interview speaks highly of Liam compared with Noel.
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Post by start at the end on Jul 7, 2011 9:06:28 GMT -5
Of course. It was Noel who dropped the axe.
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Post by Marcos on Jul 7, 2011 9:25:48 GMT -5
What I think that really pissed off Noel about Andy is the fact they never spoke after that night in Paris. I mean, Gem and Chris (they were there in the dressing room, they weren't there, whatever...) probably contacted Noel after the split and Andy didn't (as he recently stated not having a word with Noel since that night). This gotta mean something..
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2011 9:31:17 GMT -5
Really? Liam's still in contact with Tony, Whitey, Bonehead and Guigs? it has better relationship with those than Noel.Bonehead was at the first Beady Eye gig and Tony in a recent interview speaks highly of Liam compared with Noel. McCarroll is a complete knob jockey, in fairness. So's his mate BigUn.
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Post by novascotialad on Jul 7, 2011 10:41:05 GMT -5
could you elaborate on why? Certainly, mate. I think that as we got to the end of Oasis Noel became miserable and turned into the Liam that everyone was annoyed with in the earlier days of Oasis. Not only that, but his music was depressing and often uninspired. While the first five tracks off DOYS are fucking monumental, his others were pretty unfortunate (in my opinion). Lastly, he'd gotten to the point where he was extremely authoritarian in the band. While Oasis looked outwardly democratic, it surely wasn't. Although band members were having their songs recorded, I honestly felt that Noel, while claiming to be directing the vision, was purposely leaving off good songs so that he wouldn't be upstaged (like he had been a couple times in the past 5 years) All valid points, thanks... I agree with most of that but I don't harbour any resentment for the way Noel acted during that last album and tour... He was obviously fed up with Liam's behaviour,PG,etc... Secondly, after being SO in control over the ship for years he probably felt like if he was to scale back a bit on the leadership role, that he'd be missing out and cheating himself a bit... hence goin' solo.
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Post by mezmerised on Jul 7, 2011 10:56:37 GMT -5
Ok, my take on it. I do believe that events took place pretty much as Noel told it (though I do hope that now we also get Liam and Andy's perspective on what happened) and I also believe that Liam was out of order to react so violently, but I still think they are both to blame really.
1) Liam's accusations about Noel controlling the media was clearly over the top but in a way one could also say he has a point. For example Noel is friends with Gordon Smart who gets his Oasis info either directly from Noel himself or someone very close to him (eg he knew the content of the text message that Noel sent for Donovans births + 'private' info about his wedding). And on Noel vs Liam issues he ALWAYS takes Noels side (which is not Noel's fault but it's still a fact). After V he wrote that although Liam was really ill that night, the brothers didn't get on at all at the moment and that this would be their last concert on British soil for a long time. Someone must have given him that info and although you can't really blame Noel for who he choses to be friends with I can also see Liam taking offense with that.
2) I can definitely see Noel's point of not wanting to mix Oasis and Pretty Green. He always made fun of celebrities with their own clothing/perfume line and it would be embarrassing for him to now accept the exact same thing in his own band. It's the old question whether RocknRoll should be all about the music and I guess Noel believes that flogging PG clothes at gigs would undermine the band's integrity. And he has every right to think that way. For Liam on the other hand it makes perfect sense to advertise his clothes somewhere where Oasis fans can see it because they are the people who buy his stuff. It was obviously not about the fact that Liam didn't want to pay the money. And Noel obviously didn't really want the money either. These are two millionaires who co-lead a really successful band and one of them wanted to advertise his new business at their bands' gigs while the other hated the idea. This is more a question of ideology than actually business. In the end I think Liam shouldn't have demanded to advertise in Oasis programs once he knew Noel was really against it. But Noel shouldn't have brought up the "how much are you going to pay me?"issue just to rile Liam up either. Some have mentioned that we don't know what Noel said before Liam freaked out, but this might actually have already been enough to drive him crazy. He was already ranting about Noel controlling the press and then Noel decided to push him further by asking him what he's going to pay for advertising space in his own band's program!
3) Noel was apparently really mad about Liam not turning up for that V gig. When you watch the part where he said "...because he had an hangover!" you can see he is still angry/frustrated about it 2 years after it actually happened. And if Liam really just partied too much the night before and wasn't really ill then Noel has a right to be mad because that's letting the band and the fans down.
4) I think somebody in that dressing room should have stood up to Liam at least when he came back swinging that guitar, though it would have been better to intervene even earlier before the fight escalated. I don't care whether he had any intention to actually hit Noel and it also doesn't matter whether the person who stepped between them thought that one of them was right and one was wrong. It would have helped to get Liam out of the room and get him to calm down because he was the one who was really upset/out of his mind that night. It is probably unfair to just name Andy when other people (Gem, Jason, etc) where there as well and didn't do anything but since Liam and Andy are close he probably would have listened to him the most. I don't know. I could already tell from Noel's blog that there was a rift between Noel and Andy from some quips and snide remarks that Noel made about him. I always thought that it came from Andy NOT staying neutral in Noel/Liam arguments like others in the band but actually taking Liam's side which pissed Noel off. Anyway, Noel is just giving his side of what happened that night and if he feels Andy should have done something then he is allowed to say that and also say it in public. Now Andy has the chance to answer and I hope he does.
5) What frustrated me the most was the "Liam doesn't like me" line at the end as an explanation of why they don't get on. Because it's not really an explanation at all and it is also refuted by everybody who is/was close to them. I'd like to know if Noel really believes that and how he is getting that idea.
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on Jul 7, 2011 11:26:45 GMT -5
I agree with GDForever. Get a grip. Noel NEVER said Liam couldn't advertise. All Noel said was that it had to be treated like other advertisements. For reasons that GDForever pointed out, this is fair. Liam didn't like he, so he threw the toys out of the pram. If anyone acted like a child here, it's Liam.
Next time you have a suggestion for your co-worker, but your co-worker alters the suggestion slightly and not to your liking, are you going to pick up the nearest object and throw it and them? No. You discuss it, try to negotiate, and if it doesn't work out, so be it. Liam acted like a child. How anyone can take what he did seriously and justify his actions here is beyond me.
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on Jul 7, 2011 11:34:50 GMT -5
Finally someone has the guts to point out the elephant in the room after yesterday's conference! For all the arguing, for all the fights, all the Oasis history - only one person doesn't get on with people, ex band mates, etc. I'm a proud fan of both Gallaghers, but that person isn't Liam. Really? Liam's still in contact with Tony, Whitey, Bonehead and Guigs? I just LOLED so hard at your new screen name
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Post by Rifles on Jul 7, 2011 11:37:31 GMT -5
The argument in Paris was not caused by the Pretty Green ad fiasco. This was at the very end of the tour. The ad fight would've been before the tour even started. That just started everything off on a sour note and they're too stubborn to have tried to fix it.
We know Liam supposedly went nuts, but we don't know all the details of what got him there. I find it hard to believe Noel would just sit quietly while Liam went crazy. Both sides are to blame, but if Liam really did start swinging his guitar around, there's no excuse for that.
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Post by galli86 on Jul 7, 2011 12:11:45 GMT -5
that guitar swinging makes absolutely no sense. why should liam leave the room and come back with one of his guitars. there was surely one of noels around. in that alan carr interview Liam said noel smashed one of his and noel says it got on the floor somehow. LOOOL sometimes I wish they ended this band a decade earlier, both of em still acting like stupid kids. and in my book that press conference was a huge mistake. I lost a lot of respect towards noel. his last great song was written more than 10 years ago (lets all make believe) but he is still acting like that genius he was in his prime. washed up HAS BEEN
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2011 12:13:24 GMT -5
Andy saw an opportunity to live out his dream of being Noel Gallagher and took it.
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Post by alwaysnow on Jul 7, 2011 12:16:11 GMT -5
My two cents:
- Regarding the whole 'Liam should've paid for the ad' thing, it's difficult. I understand Noel's point of view, but really, he knows he brought up the money thing just to wind Liam up. Here's an analogy: I have a car, and my friend asks me to drive him somewhere near. I do it, since he's my friend, but in the end I tell him that he must pay me for the gas employed, and the vehicle's devaluation. A perfectly rational and economic request, but with really bad taste. You don't do that to a friend, never mind a brother. This issue is not completely rational, and I think that's where people defending Noel are wrong.
- To take Noel's or Liam's word as gospel is useless. From Noel's story, one could get the idea that he was the victim the whole time: Liam wanted to take advantage of the band for his own enterprise, Liam had a hangover, Liam tried to hit him with a guitar, Liam thought that he managed all the press, and Noel really didn't do anything, he just stood there, defended the band's best interests and suffered constant abuse. Really? The only thing he did -according to his story- was "put the guitar out of his misery" which is an euphemism to say that he smashed Liam's guitar. Not very acceptable behaviour either, I think. We don't know for certain anything, so I don't thing it's right to start blaming people or judging anyone. Not Noel, not Andy, not Liam.
- To be clear, if Liam actually did threaten Noel with a guitar and swung it at him, he's completely wrong and I'm not justifying that conduct by any means. It might be true. Although I honestly think Noel overblew that and it's not exactly what happened. It's just my opinion, I could be wrong, Liam has acted really immature and violent in the past, so it's not that farfetched either.
- Summarizing, I'm saying it's healthy to question Noel's version too, and that he shows himself as a saint, and it's very possible he also did some things to make the problems climb up to where everything exploded. If not for certain. But of course, he wouldn't say that to the media. In the end, the fact that people pointed out that Noel has ended on bad terms with most of the band members along the years, does say something about him being a difficult person to deal with, for whatever reason.
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Post by Rifles on Jul 7, 2011 12:16:16 GMT -5
his last great song was written more than 10 years ago (lets all make believe) but he is still acting like that genius he was in his prime. washed up HAS BEEN Yikes. LAMB definitely not his last great song. Agree on the childish behavior front, but I don't think he was pompous or acted like a genius. He was way more soft-spoken than normal. In the past he'd come out and say the album was the best thing since MG etc and talk about how great everything is. He was way more subdued in that aspect than he normally is. It's amazing all the different opinions and perspectives you get after a bunch of people watch the exact same thing.
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on Jul 7, 2011 12:24:28 GMT -5
his last great song was written more than 10 years ago (lets all make believe) but he is still acting like that genius he was in his prime. washed up HAS BEEN It's amazing all the different opinions and perspectives you get after a bunch of people watch the exact same thing. Some people also like to be windup merchants.....
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Post by start at the end on Jul 7, 2011 12:30:40 GMT -5
^ Re your last statement: Because people will believe what they want anyway.
After 17 yrs, it's always been mystifying to me how "real" fans cannot see that Liam is a real Class A fuckin asshole to reporters, other bands, his brother, and just about every other human he interacts with (in his defense though he seems to have always been decent with fans and was fine both times I met him), but there you go.
Does it mean Noel's perfect? Of course not. But I find absolutely no reason to discount what Noel attested to re the Pretty Green deal, Liam's missed show due to a hangover (track record), and violent outburst (track record).
People's desire to split the blame right down the middle 50/50 is the most bizarre aspect of this whole thing to me, to be quite honest.
Doesn't mean I or anyone else is a "fanboy" of Noel Gallagher, just that we use our inclination and 20 years of history to form an opinion.
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Post by oasisfanboy on Jul 7, 2011 12:55:55 GMT -5
After 17 yrs, it's always been mystifying to me how "real" fans cannot see that Liam is a real Class A fuckin asshole to reporters, other bands, his brother, and just about every other human he interacts with Which is exactly why the entire rest of the band willingly agreed to start a new band with him THAT SAME day?
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Post by start at the end on Jul 7, 2011 12:59:25 GMT -5
"start a new band". Christ. You mean oasis minus the guy who wrote 95% of the great music of course.
Yeah, I'm certain they stayed with him cause he's a great guy.
history's on my side.
It's fine to parade about as "unbiased", but if that means you walk around with blinders, ignoring facts and reasonable deduction it's not really worth anything.
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Leezy
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Post by Leezy on Jul 7, 2011 13:12:17 GMT -5
Noel had had enough and wanted out, Liam just gave him the excuse he needed. Don't get why Noel didn't just say that yesterday, instead he points the blame at Liam and Andy. Takes 2 to tango though, I'm sure Noel isn't entirely the 'victim' he makes himself out to be
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Post by His Royal Noelness on Jul 7, 2011 13:14:29 GMT -5
After 17 yrs, it's always been mystifying to me how "real" fans cannot see that Liam is a real Class A fuckin asshole to reporters, other bands, his brother, and just about every other human he interacts with Which is exactly why the entire rest of the band willingly agreed to start a new band with him THAT SAME day? It was either that or float into obscurity.
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Post by icebreath on Jul 7, 2011 13:18:41 GMT -5
Noel had had enough and wanted out, Liam just gave him the excuse he needed. Don't get why Noel didn't just say that yesterday, instead he points the blame at Liam and Andy. Takes 2 to tango though, I'm sure Noel isn't entirely the 'victim' he makes himself out to be only naive people would accept that the only reasons Noel left Oasis was Pretty Green and Liam's attitude...
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Post by start at the end on Jul 7, 2011 13:18:47 GMT -5
I'm not speaking at all about the level of music, quite obviously. I threw the quip in there for the hell of it.
Your advertisement of the shows you've attended is irrelevant.
It's also very telling that you're bringing about quotes/incidents a decade to 15 yrs old with Noel. You needn't go back 48 hours to witness Liam's "evolution".
Another point you fail to understand: NOEL LEFT OASIS.
They remaining members simply carried on...with a shiny new name and ferociously mediocre material littered with songs no one outside of a BDI slave could name 4 months later.
And if you don't think 3 of the 4 didn't do it to follow a paycheck, you're hopelessly green. Again, had LIAM left oasis I'd bet you dollars to donuts Andy, Chris, and Gem would have continued with Noel.
Again. Neither human is perfect, but that doesn't mean either is equally to blame. But if it makes you feel better, continue to wave the flag of "equilibrium", posting sarcastic "smilies" and explaining to everyone with an opinion otherwise that they're hopelessly slanted.
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Post by mezmerised on Jul 7, 2011 13:22:25 GMT -5
^ Re your last statement: Because people will believe what they want anyway. After 17 yrs, it's always been mystifying to me how "real" fans cannot see that Liam is a real Class A fuckin asshole to reporters, other bands, his brother, and just about every other human he interacts with (in his defense though he seems to have always been decent with fans and was fine both times I met him), but there you go. Well, it's mystifying to me how a "real" fan of Oasis can actually think that Liam is an asshole. Everybody who has met him personally says he is a nice, decent and funny guy. And isn't it more important how he behaves when there are no cameras involved than that every now and then he slags of bands or is rude to reporters during an interview? I hate it when people use it against Noel that he is not in touch with old band members anymore as if that somehow proves that he's a jerk when to me it just shows that Noel is not that much of a people person anyway (something which he has admitted to himelf) and that he just stays in contact with people he really likes. But the fact that Liam is still friends with almost everybody definitely shows that he can't be that much of an asshole as you apparently think he is. Plus we have people who know him like Roger Daltrey, Weller, Kasabian, Richard Ashcroft etc saying what I great guy he is. And all of them are also friends with Noel. And even Noel says Liam gets on well with other people. It's just them two who can't seem to sort out their problems and the most obvious solution why their fights keep happening has to be that both are at fault. People's desire to split the blame right down the middle 50/50 is the most bizarre aspect of this whole thing to me, to be quite honest. Well, most conflicts are about two people not getting on, instead of one going crazy while the other acts completely reasonable, so it's not that bizarre to look at faults and mistakes on both sides. The way I see it they just wanted different things. Noel wanted a 5 year break, Liam was completely against that. Liam wanted to market his clothing line in Oasis tour programs, Noel hated the idea. Noel thought it was ok to be friendly with some people in the press, Liam thought that was shit. Noel wanted the gigs to go down well, Liam apparently kept partying anyway. Add to that that Noel has a way to wind people up with words and Liam is prone to violent outburts and there we go.
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Post by importantlyidle on Jul 7, 2011 13:27:36 GMT -5
It was either that or float into obscurity. Yeah because if Gem and Andy sided with Noel instead Liam wouldn't be able to join/form another band? Let's face it Beady Eye haven't brought anyone other than Oasis fans across with them and as good as Gem and Andy are musically Liam is the main attraction, so people would have followed him no matter what he did at least for the first album, so stop being a dick Marty
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Leezy
Madferrit Fan
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Post by Leezy on Jul 7, 2011 13:50:26 GMT -5
Really don't get why Noel has such a grudge against Andy. Just sounds like from what Noel said yesterday that all Andy did was keep himself to himself and away from the argument, is that such a crime? Really don't buy it, there has to be a bigger reason why Noel holds such a big grudge against him.
Be interesting to see if Andy does respond to what Noels said in any forthcoming interviews...
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Post by start at the end on Jul 7, 2011 13:59:52 GMT -5
^ Re your last statement: Because people will believe what they want anyway. After 17 yrs, it's always been mystifying to me how "real" fans cannot see that Liam is a real Class A fuckin asshole to reporters, other bands, his brother, and just about every other human he interacts with (in his defense though he seems to have always been decent with fans and was fine both times I met him), but there you go. Well, it's mystifying to me how a "real" fan of Oasis can actually think that Liam is an asshole. Everybody who has met him personally says he is a nice, decent and funny guy. And isn't it more important how he behaves when there are no cameras involved than that every now and then he slags of bands or is rude to reporters during an interview? I hate it when people use it against Noel that he is not in touch with old band members anymore as if that somehow proves that he's a jerk when to me it just shows that Noel is not that much of a people person anyway (something which he has admitted to himelf) and that he just stays in contact with people he really likes. But the fact that Liam is still friends with almost everybody definitely shows that he can't be that much of an asshole as you apparently think he is. Plus we have people who know him like Roger Daltrey, Weller, Kasabian, Richard Ashcroft etc saying what I great guy he is. And all of them are also friends with Noel. And even Noel says Liam gets on well with other people. It's just them two who can't seem to sort out their problems and the most obvious solution why their fights keep happening has to be that both are at fault. People's desire to split the blame right down the middle 50/50 is the most bizarre aspect of this whole thing to me, to be quite honest. Well, most conflicts are about two people not getting on, instead of one going crazy while the other acts completely reasonable, so it's not that bizarre to look at faults and mistakes on both sides. The way I see it they just wanted different things. Noel wanted a 5 year break, Liam was completely against that. Liam wanted to market his clothing line in Oasis tour programs, Noel hated the idea. Noel thought it was ok to be friendly with some people in the press, Liam thought that was shit. Noel wanted the gigs to go down well, Liam apparently kept partying anyway. Add to that that Noel has a way to wind people up with words and Liam is prone to violent outburts and there we go. In order for you to understand, you'd need to make the crucial distinction between OASIS and the MUSIC, and the content of the character of the guy who sings the songs. If you can do that, you can very easily understand how either are perfectly harmonious. "Everybody who has met him personally says he is a nice, decent and funny guy." You cannot make this shit up. Your inferred knowledge of Liam's social life is laughable. Yep, I'm sure he facebooks with Tony, Guigs and Bonehead regularly. As for friends with others, lmao. I cannot name a single figure in rock n roll who's so ROUTINELY slagged by others within the genre. What a joke. but hey: whatever helps you sleep at night.
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