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Post by jamilton144 on Apr 6, 2011 8:18:13 GMT -5
i am a huge fan of noels songwriting and i love nearly everything he does, but i cant quite get what makes his songwriting and his songs so fantastic.. any ideas?
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Post by Guy Fawkes on Apr 6, 2011 8:20:59 GMT -5
his sense of melody.
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Post by putthisin ® on Apr 6, 2011 9:07:27 GMT -5
Also, their meaningful lyrics. Not poetry by any means, but most of his songs got a message that everyone can relate to
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Post by shoes222 on Apr 6, 2011 10:13:55 GMT -5
I've spent a lot of time thinking a lot about this as well. Both of you are correct.
The first thing has to be his amazing sense of melody, you don't have anything without that. The second would be the honesty and relatability in his lyrics. You can tell the man writes what he really feels, not only by the lyrical content but by the way he sings it. He doesn't just sing the songs, but he puts a part of himself into it, and people respect him for that.
He's also naturally good at song structure, and he always has been. For his anthemic songs, he tends to use minor chords for his pre-choruses, which then builds up into the major chords of his choruses. It's naturally pleasing to the human ear and he instinctively knows how to exploit it.
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Post by thedon on Apr 6, 2011 10:30:54 GMT -5
It'd be good if someone did a book akin to Ian Macdonald's 'A Revolution In The Head' about Noel's songs. It'll never happen though.
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Post by Rifles on Apr 6, 2011 11:00:26 GMT -5
It's definitely his focus on melody. One of the things that I've always liked about Noel is his guitar work. I know it's pretty simple stuff, but that's what's nice about it. He doesn't start thrashing and seeing how fast he can play. His guitar solos actually add to the songs and are an extension of the melody. Take Johnny Marr's CS solo from the Barrowlands. It's not a bad solo, but i'll take Noel's solo over it any day. Noel's is way more melodic and less about cramming in as many notes as possible.
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Post by spaneli on Apr 6, 2011 11:32:33 GMT -5
I've spent a lot of time thinking a lot about this as well. Both of you are correct. The first thing has to be his amazing sense of melody, you don't have anything without that. The second would be the honesty and relatability in his lyrics. You can tell the man writes what he really feels, not only by the lyrical content but by the way he sings it. He doesn't just sing the songs, but he puts a part of himself into it, and people respect him for that. He's also naturally good at song structure, and he always has been. For his anthemic songs, he tends to use minor chords for his pre-choruses, which then builds up into the major chords of his choruses. It's naturally pleasing to the human ear and he instinctively knows how to exploit it. Really?!? I've never seen a correlation between his use of minor and major chords with his anthemic stuff. What you're saying is certainly not the case in Wonderwall, SCYHO, The Masterplan, SMS, CS, MG. Could you please explain your point better because in all the time that I've played the songs on guitar, I've never noticed that correlation. |
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Post by spaneli on Apr 6, 2011 11:47:39 GMT -5
It has to be the melody. Even the worst Noel song has a great melody. I can play I can see a Liar on guitar and be perfectly happy. He has a great sense of melody. For Noel the melody is one long continuous story. That's really what sets him apart from other songwriters. For someone like Liam, he just wants a verse and chorus and for those 2 things to work. Noel on the other hand wants to develop it more and really make every section of the song flow. Noel has amazing transitions from verse to chorus, or verse to pre-chorus, to chorus.
Everything he does, he does to better the melody. As someone else stated, his solos tend to be more melodic. He's not looking the shred every note on the guitar, for him a solo is suppose to work with the melody in that long continuing story. Noel is also very good at knowing how to use chord variations, he knows exactly when to use a Cadd9, an Em7, A7su4, Asus4, Asus2, G7, G6, Cmaj7, Dsus2. His styling with his use of chords is another thing that gives him his own unique sound.
Noel is also pretty good at knowing when to use a walk up and when to use a walk down. He does it amazingly well in of course DLBIA, YGTHOAS, Step Out, If I Had A Gun, and a host of other songs.
All these factors contribute to his songs being on another level.
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Post by shoes222 on Apr 6, 2011 11:50:44 GMT -5
I've spent a lot of time thinking a lot about this as well. Both of you are correct. The first thing has to be his amazing sense of melody, you don't have anything without that. The second would be the honesty and relatability in his lyrics. You can tell the man writes what he really feels, not only by the lyrical content but by the way he sings it. He doesn't just sing the songs, but he puts a part of himself into it, and people respect him for that. He's also naturally good at song structure, and he always has been. For his anthemic songs, he tends to use minor chords for his pre-choruses, which then builds up into the major chords of his choruses. It's naturally pleasing to the human ear and he instinctively knows how to exploit it. Really?!? I've never seen a correlation between his use of minor and major chords with his anthemic stuff. What you're saying is certainly not the case in Wonderwall, SCYHO, The Masterplan, SMS, CS, MG. Could you please explain your point better because in all the time that I've played the songs on guitar, I've never noticed that correlation. It definitely is the case in Don't Go Away, The Girl in the Dirty Shirt, the "cold and wind and rain don't know" part in Stand By Me, in I Hope I Think I Know...I just listened to the Be Here now album yesterday so those songs are fresh in my mind, but there are countless of other examples. |
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Post by spaneli on Apr 6, 2011 11:58:49 GMT -5
^^TGITDS doesnt use that structure either,nor in SBM. What chords are you playing with? There's one minor chord in the pre-chorus of SBM, and its not in that line. Same thing with TGITDS, the entire pre-chours is basically major, except for one instance of a Em.
DGA and DLBIA are the only 2 that I can find so far.
It might happen in maybe 3-5 songs, but that doesn't mean that that is a pattern. I think you might need to explain your point a bit better.
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Post by Headmaster on Apr 6, 2011 12:15:24 GMT -5
Is all about the melody, Noel has this gift that set him apart from their peers. He can build the momentum to the chorus like no any other person.
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Post by Ltrain on Apr 6, 2011 12:21:07 GMT -5
For me its all about the melodies. If the melody is shit than the song is shit. I guess that is what makes all songs great, at least to me. Those artsy fartsy albums don't do anything for me, they usually lack any good melodies and are just dull.. Noel is one of the best a writing a great melody and different melodies within the same melody.. I am melody'd out
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Post by Frank Lee Vulgar on Apr 6, 2011 15:23:17 GMT -5
For me its all about the melodies. If the melody is shit than the song is shit. I guess that is what makes all songs great, at least to me. Those artsy fartsy albums don't do anything for me, they usually lack any good melodies and are just dull.. Noel is one of the best a writing a great melody and different melodies within the same melody.. I am melody'd out This.  |
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on Apr 6, 2011 18:06:33 GMT -5
For me, other than the melody (because a shit sounding song isn't going to sound good, is it?), it's that Noel keeps it real. He writes what he feels, which makes us able to relate to it. Also, he keeps it real in the sense that he doesn't complain about being rich and famous (see Mike SKinner's 3rd album. He writes about sentiments we all have - about being young, about trying to be successful, about hope, about love, about partying, and about despair. I've referenced this quote quite a few times, but I think it's apt here, too. This is from the NME Stop the Clocks review, and I think it sums it up to perfection: "To understand these songs is to know what if feels like to be 18 years old, with a great haircut and a great set of clothes, walking into a club with more heart and hope than dough, and thinking – metaphorically at least – “Everyone in this shithole is going to suck my fucking dick.” These are songs about triumph and adversity (‘Talk Tonight’); about having nothing and wanting everything (‘Rock’N’Roll Star’); about being pissed off with the world, yet coming from such a poor lot, you’re too pathetically educated to be able to express such rage linguistically, and anyway, the cool-as-fuck, forever iconic, six-syllable stretched pronunciation of ‘Im-ag-in-aay-shee-en’ says everything you want to say much more succinctly (‘Cigarettes & Alcohol’). It’s also about fighting – and, if you take into account Oasis’ much underappreciated, career best dewy side (‘Slide Away’, ‘Wonderwall’, ‘Don’t Look Back In Anger’), forgiving. Put plainly and simply, these are songs about every intake of air that goes into your lungs, swills about inside you for a bit, and then returns from where it arrived. These are songs that chronicle the experience of life."And "No, these are songs about life in all its extremity, encompassing the minutiae of existence and the thrill of experience. Much like Liam wore Noel’s words like his own, these are songs for your life to wear. Consider ‘Champagne Supernova’ and its nonsensical refrain of “Slowly walking down the hall/Faster than a cannonball”. Now close your eyes. Remember where you were when you first heard it. Now try saying it means nothing. Repeat with the couplets of ‘Supersonic’, ‘Morning Glory’ and ‘Lyla’. Turn stereo to 11. Those songs say everything about life. They document it. They pulled you through it time and time again."www.nme.com/reviews/oasis/8077 |
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Post by forestfan on Apr 6, 2011 19:22:03 GMT -5
id like to add a big reason why Noels songs are good for oasis was liams voice
see Morning glory sung by Noel vs Liams and you get my point
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Post by stinenat on Apr 6, 2011 19:44:40 GMT -5
I never got why people said "slowly walking down the hall faster than a cannon ball" is non-sensical. I think it's obvious. You're high as shit so as you move through life you feel like you're going a million miles an hour. Enter the Void style.
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on Apr 6, 2011 19:49:06 GMT -5
I never got why people said "slowly walking down the hall faster than a cannon ball" is non-sensical. I think it's obvious. You're high as shit so as you move through life you feel like you're going a million miles an hour. Enter the Void style. I agree with the sentiment, but not fully with the explanation....I believe that drugs can have a time warp effect, making things seems really slowly, but at the same now traveling faster in reality....hence the dichotomy. It does actually make sense, though. It's a paradox, and I love that. |
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Post by knilly on Apr 8, 2011 6:14:52 GMT -5
Ive been thinking about this recently. the main reasons are I believe to be his pop tastic arrangements, his songs are exactly what your ear expects to hear when it goes to the next chord. His honesty in his lyrics, and the way they speak to people, all of it is "we" or "us" all together, like hymns almost.
Ive also been thinking about why all other bands songs just seem so threadbare after listening to oasis, and the only reason i can think of it is Noels wall of guitar noise on many songs, many have lead parts all the way through to beef it up. some people may not like it, but like ive said I feel like other bands songs are not as full as Oasis tunes
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Post by BlueJay on Apr 8, 2011 7:37:27 GMT -5
Jaw-dropping melodies aside, Noel has that unique quality which allows him to write songs that can be confident, intimidating and incredibly ballsy (Rock N Roll Star, Supersonic, Bring It On Down, Some Might Say, D'you Know What I Mean?), completely knocking down the listener's safe guard and leaving them no choice but to react in stunned awe. On top of this he has an indelible talent for the opposite side of the spectrum, the ability to craft songs that go right through to the soul of the listener with an assurance of warmth and a bagful of impassive perspectives from the melancholy realm (Half the World Away, Talk Tonight, Cast No Shadow, Rockin' Chair).
Noel songs welcomed us and attached themselves to us from the beginning. As time beats on and we inevitably no longer have the energy to jump up and down to the life affirming rush that shoots through his greatest songs, we will couch ourselves in the aura of them, knowing that no matter where we are, what we do or how we feel, the Chiefs spirited songs will burst through our inner being and remind us of all things good in life. Noel's songwriting makes us feel as though we can fly to the sun or descend the lowest ravines with a confident self-ability that makes us feel good to be alive.
At least that is how I feel ;D
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Post by Headmaster on Apr 8, 2011 14:22:13 GMT -5
Is because he uses these words:
Mind
Shine
Time
Tonight
Bed
Head
Come on
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Post by gdforever on Apr 8, 2011 14:38:55 GMT -5
^ And lots of Away's
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Post by shoes222 on Apr 8, 2011 14:39:35 GMT -5
And Soul.
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Post by gdforever on Apr 8, 2011 14:46:21 GMT -5
As far are lyrics go...I love that he uses the word you alot. It's very inclusive to the listeners. Like every song is written and directed @ them or as if we are being let into a private world between just him and the subject of the song. That's how his best lyrics always are.
There is of course the easy answer of melody as well.
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Post by Level 03 on Apr 8, 2011 17:31:41 GMT -5
Just for this :
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Post by juancho1995 on Apr 8, 2011 18:21:10 GMT -5
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Nov 4, 2024 5:04:30 GMT -5
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