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Post by His Royal Noelness on Dec 28, 2010 9:20:07 GMT -5
Tony is a genius. This has completely taken the spot light of is rudimentary drumming skills!
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Post by kimallenbewick on Dec 28, 2010 10:09:05 GMT -5
OK, then all you believe what Tony and BigUn say? But, why? I mean, we have Noel's story against Tony's story and I'm not buying none of those because probably they both have explained what they've wanted. What I'm not definitely buying is BigUn and the others 'Tony's fans' trying to convince people Tony hasn't written the book to damage Noel's image and with a strong revange feeling against him. I mean, come on! The book was first called 'Noels' truth is nothing like the truth' (or something like that) how could you say his objective wasn't that? I've read the first 5 pages of the book but there's nothing interesting there, Liam or Noel doesn't even appear, only their mum Peggy. What I'm trying to say is that maybe the book is very easy to believe but we don't know what really happened, we only have Tony's version of the facts. I also would like to compare the version of Noel that Tony has given us with the version of the Noel of the Paul Gallagher's book. It's like two different persons, why? (yes, I have read Paul's book).
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Post by retrocool73 on Dec 28, 2010 13:20:46 GMT -5
Mark, as this thread is not about me (or indeed you), I will limit my response to this once. Your first post read "all these new accounts popping up, only posting in this thread slating noel / praising tony. ffs piss off. stop being so bitter that you're mate is an arse and noel made it big time" appears to suggest that the posters are bitter, not Mr McCarroll, so saying in response "The Oxford dictionary defines bitter as: feeling or showing anger, hurt, or resentment because of bad experiences or a sense of unjust treatment. .............hhhmmmmm sounds like how someone may describe tony's feelings towards noel, would it not?" is a complete nonsense. As is saying "No one said we were here to praise Noel, more so to prevent dicks popping up on the forum, only posting in one topic and criticising him" Shouldn't that be "HIM" in capital letters? I'm under the impression that this is an Oasis/Beady Eye forum, not the Noel Gallagher fanclub? What makes this all the more absurd is the book/person we are discussing is, as has been said time and time again, quite generous is his praise of what Noel achieved as both a songwriter and for the band Oasis. That some posters on this forum seem to be convinced McCarroll cannot possibly be right in what he says regarding aspects of Noel that aren't so agreeable or great only serves to show the extent of disinformation on the bands history and legacy.
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Post by Mr. Monobrow on Dec 28, 2010 13:42:07 GMT -5
Fuck this, where's the demos?
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Post by mezmerised on Dec 28, 2010 13:55:56 GMT -5
Having approached this book from a pretty 'neutral' perspective, I was pleasantly suprised by how good Tony's book was. I've read many a music-related biography and this is definitely one of the best ( far better than, for instance, Paolo Hewitt's "The Changing Man") I've read in some time. I have seen the band live 3 times (twice in the 90s) and have all the albums etc, and like the vast majority of their work and my opinion of Tony before picking up this book was pretty much what Noel had generated during the past 15 years, namely that Mr McCarroll was just a chancer & a pillock, and a man who blew his big chance due to being a very limited drummer. Now, I'm pretty media savvy & have been immersed in rock music for all of my life (not professionally, so put away your conspiracy theories) so if that was opinion, Tony must have been viewed by most others as a complete idiot - so fair game to him at trying to set the record straight, something he has managed to do successfully. Far from being a bitter nearly man (as I expected him to be, a la Gordon "Nobby" Clark or Alan Lancaster) Tony in the book, whilst being pretty to-the-point, comes across as magnanimous in his appreciation of what Noel brought to the band whilst still pointing out what really happened in those days. The "insults" aimed at Noel are nothing compared to what Tony endured in high-profile interviews, and as far as Guigsy is concerned he is also quite clear about what irked him (basic treachery after a long friendship). . Saying that it's better than Hewitt's Changing Man is rather faint praise considering that that is one of the worst biographies ever written. Funnily enough, Hewitt published it shortly after he and Weller had fallen out after years of friendship. But it's a good example as to why I dislike books like this or Tony's: There is probably quite a bit of truth in them (maybe even more truth than when Hewitt wrote about Weller when they were still friends or when he wrote about Noel and Oasis in a rather glorifying way) but the mere fact that someone decides to write a book about someone else as a way to 'get even' and that he throws every shit thing that ever happened in their life back at them and interprets every one of their actions in the worst possible way, leaves a bad taste in my mouth (e.g. why was it even necessary for Tony to mention Noel's anti-Irish sentiments back when he was a teenager? It has no connection with Oasis and even less with Tony himself). Do you really think that Noel's insults are worse than what Tony is doing in the book? Noel throws a few insults at him every now and again. I know it was worse in the 90s but I'd bet that in the last 10 years he didn't even mention Tony's name more than a dozen times. Not exactly a vendetta. Sure, it is still unnecessary and he could just leave him alone but in the end it's just words that could be used against anybody ("idiot", "he has a shit haircut" etc). How in the world a man in his late 30s can get upset about things like that is really beyond me . The most personal thing was Noel belittleing Tony's drumming skills and in Noel's defense I think he said that because it's really his opinion. Personally I always liked Tony's sound but as the songwriter Noel obviously had his own 'vision' of what his songs are supposed to sound like and when the drumming didn't sound the way he wanted it to, then I can see how he could get frustrated with the drummer. As a matter of fact Noel also didn't like the bass but because he liked Guigsy as a mate or - if you want to go along with Tony's version - because Guigs never objected to anything Noel said, he just rerecorded it himself and kept him in the band anyway. Whatever Noel said about Tony's drumming, Tony now got even with him by bringing up again that dreary discussion about Noel stealing other people's songs. I think real Oasis fans are already aware of the times when Noel used other people's stuff so it's not really anything new and in parts Tony also exaggerated the issue IMO just to make Noel look bad. But in his book Tony also goes to great length to point out some serious flaws in Noel's character: give or take the thrown in compliments about his wit and songwriting skills, the negative things that you are left with after reading the book is that Noel, (according to Tony) apparently is a coward, a liar, a self-centered bastard who is unloyal to his friends and only looks out for himself and ultimately a fake. To me allegations like that seem a lot worse than taunting someone throughout the years in interviews about things that don't really matter anyway. It also looks like the actions of a man who feels he has some old scores to settle which makes Tony look rather bitter in my mind, no matter what he says to the contrary. And as far Noel and Liam's relationship is concerned, I think Tony either didn't get it or his bias against Noel made him unable to judge it properly. I think Liam would be the first to acknowledge that although Noel probably didn't give him as much approval/respect/whatever as he would have wanted at times, that it was in no way as bad as Tony made it look in his book. And I'm basing my opinion on Liam's own comments about their relationship between 1994 and 2007/08.
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Post by spyrosfab4 on Dec 28, 2010 14:19:43 GMT -5
''you have to be a bastard to make it....and the beatles were the biggest bastards on earth'' john lennon 1970..........
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Post by bwilder on Dec 28, 2010 15:40:28 GMT -5
Jesus, this is still a thread?
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Post by kimallenbewick on Dec 28, 2010 15:42:46 GMT -5
Having approached this book from a pretty 'neutral' perspective, I was pleasantly suprised by how good Tony's book was. I've read many a music-related biography and this is definitely one of the best ( far better than, for instance, Paolo Hewitt's "The Changing Man") I've read in some time. I have seen the band live 3 times (twice in the 90s) and have all the albums etc, and like the vast majority of their work and my opinion of Tony before picking up this book was pretty much what Noel had generated during the past 15 years, namely that Mr McCarroll was just a chancer & a pillock, and a man who blew his big chance due to being a very limited drummer. Now, I'm pretty media savvy & have been immersed in rock music for all of my life (not professionally, so put away your conspiracy theories) so if that was opinion, Tony must have been viewed by most others as a complete idiot - so fair game to him at trying to set the record straight, something he has managed to do successfully. Far from being a bitter nearly man (as I expected him to be, a la Gordon "Nobby" Clark or Alan Lancaster) Tony in the book, whilst being pretty to-the-point, comes across as magnanimous in his appreciation of what Noel brought to the band whilst still pointing out what really happened in those days. The "insults" aimed at Noel are nothing compared to what Tony endured in high-profile interviews, and as far as Guigsy is concerned he is also quite clear about what irked him (basic treachery after a long friendship). . Saying that it's better than Hewitt's Changing Man is rather faint praise considering that that is one of the worst biographies ever written. Funnily enough, Hewitt published it shortly after he and Weller had fallen out after years of friendship. But it's a good example as to why I dislike books like this or Tony's: There is probably quite a bit of truth in them (maybe even more truth than when Hewitt wrote about Weller when they were still friends or when he wrote about Noel and Oasis in a rather glorifying way) but the mere fact that someone decides to write a book about someone else as a way to 'get even' and that he throws every shit thing that ever happened in their life back at them and interprets every one of their actions in the worst possible way, leaves a bad taste in my mouth (e.g. why was it even necessary for Tony to mention Noel's anti-Irish sentiments back when he was a teenager? It has no connection with Oasis and even less with Tony himself). Do you really think that Noel's insults are worse than what Tony is doing in the book? Noel throws a few insults at him every now and again. I know it was worse in the 90s but I'd bet that in the last 10 years he didn't even mention Tony's name more than a dozen times. Not exactly a vendetta. Sure, it is still unnecessary and he could just leave him alone but in the end it's just words that could be used against anybody ("idiot", "he has a shit haircut" etc). How in the world a man in his late 30s can get upset about things like that is really beyond me . The most personal thing was Noel belittleing Tony's drumming skills and in Noel's defense I think he said that because it's really his opinion. Personally I always liked Tony's sound but as the songwriter Noel obviously had his own 'vision' of what his songs are supposed to sound like and when the drumming didn't sound the way he wanted it to, then I can see how he could get frustrated with the drummer. As a matter of fact Noel also didn't like the bass but because he liked Guigsy as a mate or - if you want to go along with Tony's version - because Guigs never objected to anything Noel said, he just rerecorded it himself and kept him in the band anyway. Whatever Noel said about Tony's drumming, Tony now got even with him by bringing up again that dreary discussion about Noel stealing other people's songs. I think real Oasis fans are already aware of the times when Noel used other people's stuff so it's not really anything new and in parts Tony also exaggerated the issue IMO just to make Noel look bad. But in his book Tony also goes to great length to point out some serious flaws in Noel's character: give or take the thrown in compliments about his wit and songwriting skills, the negative things that you are left with after reading the book is that Noel, (according to Tony) apparently is a coward, a liar, a self-centered bastard who is unloyal to his friends and only looks out for himself and ultimately a fake. To me allegations like that seem a lot worse than taunting someone throughout the years in interviews about things that don't really matter anyway. It also looks like the actions of a man who feels he has some old scores to settle which makes Tony look rather bitter in my mind, no matter what he says to the contrary. And as far Noel and Liam's relationship is concerned, I think Tony either didn't get it or his bias against Noel made him unable to judge it properly. I think Liam would be the first to acknowledge that although Noel probably didn't give him as much approval/respect/whatever as he would have wanted at times, that it was in no way as bad as Tony made it look in his book. And I'm basing my opinion on Liam's own comments about their relationship between 1994 and 2007/08. I agree with you on everything you've said. What you've said is what I was trying to say. Someone who makes a book to smear someone's image is clearly not an objective version of the truth, it's only a point of view explained from hatred.
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Post by retrocool73 on Dec 28, 2010 17:11:57 GMT -5
Mark, are you suggesting these "new accounts" are all possibly connected to McCarroll? This does seem to be taking syncophancy to new heights, I can assure you all I am just a music fan unconnected to Manchester, to Oasis or any associate of the group and thus am in no position to "tell him to crawl back under the stone which he came from". Your overly agressive stance tells its own story. I imagine BigUn is the man to pass that particular comment onto.
P.S. Don't call me "inane" just because I'm not an one-dimensional syncophant. It does not allude to your supposed intelligence.
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Post by gdforever on Dec 28, 2010 17:20:05 GMT -5
If BigUn is real...where are the demos he promised to post?
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Post by retrocool73 on Dec 28, 2010 17:29:43 GMT -5
One letter slip-up, wow. Agressive, defensive and evading questions - well at least you're loyal
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Post by gdforever on Dec 28, 2010 17:41:18 GMT -5
One letter slip-up, wow. Agressive, defensive and evading questions - well at least you're loyal I find it amusing how defensive people get when they don't feel like they can defend their POV. You seem just as defensive about ur position as him...if not more so... From an uninvolved party.
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Post by loveoneanother on Dec 29, 2010 20:41:07 GMT -5
I can't buy the book at the moment for some reason but I read some part of it on amazon. Can someone tell me what was the story with "the masterplan" and the Lowry thing that Tony talks about ?
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Post by spaneli on Dec 29, 2010 20:45:58 GMT -5
Where the fuck are those demos?
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Post by mrsm81 on Dec 30, 2010 11:05:52 GMT -5
''you have to be a bastard to make it....and the beatles were the biggest bastards on earth'' john lennon 1970.......... Ha, he was always good for a quote! Theres a couple of narky buggers on here by the looks of it too! Havent read the book but should arrive in the new year from Amazon (cheers santa!). S x
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Post by lillyjean123 on Dec 31, 2010 12:03:59 GMT -5
Just found out that it's BIGUNS birthday today HAPPY BIRTHDAY bigun we love u xxxx
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Post by lillyjean123 on Dec 31, 2010 12:21:22 GMT -5
Heard today they might be doing a film on the book " oasis the truth" bring it on !!!! What do u all think?
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Post by House Of Wolves on Jan 2, 2011 12:05:11 GMT -5
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bigun
Madferrit Fan
Seem to be lots of negativity and untruths flying around this forum. Noel would be proud.
Posts: 52
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Post by bigun on Jan 7, 2011 5:05:32 GMT -5
Hello everybody, BigUn here, back from a very relaxing Christmas break. It's good to see that the vitriol is still flowing through certain members veins even over the period of goodwill to all men.
GDForever it seems you still have a few hang ups surrounding how 'real' I am. Well I have just pinched myself and it damn well hurt. Thats your fault that is.
MarkAntro, you need to lay off the pyschoanalysis unless you are qualified to do so and have actually sat wih Tony. Although you will probably disbelieve, I can assure you that he last thing that Tony has become is bitter. Tony recognises that Noel has written some quality songs. But he also points out that he has 'borrowed' a hell of a lot without giving credit to the original songwriters. Any threat from such songwriters and met with the words, and I quote, 'I have two hundred grand in my back pocket to defend myself in court. Have you?'
Tony has pointed out Noel's inadequacies as a flawed human being - greedy, egocentric, manipulative, lack of originality and constantly driven by money. He also pointed out a few of his own in the interest of balance. If Tony (who was short changed by Noel) can be so magnaminous why can't you?
Loving BDI and Liam's recent interview!! Wait until he announces his next movie project!!
BigUn.
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Post by gdforever on Jan 7, 2011 11:09:45 GMT -5
Hello everybody, BigUn here, back from a very relaxing Christmas break. It's good to see that the vitriol is still flowing through certain members veins even over the period of goodwill to all men. GDForever it seems you still have a few hang ups surrounding how 'real' I am. Well I have just pinched myself and it damn well hurt. Thats your fault that is. MarkAntro, you need to lay off the pyschoanalysis unless you are qualified to do so and have actually sat wih Tony. Although you will probably disbelieve, I can assure you that he last thing that Tony has become is bitter. Tony recognises that Noel has written some quality songs. But he also points out that he has 'borrowed' a hell of a lot without giving credit to the original songwriters. Any threat from such songwriters and met with the words, and I quote, 'I have two hundred grand in my back pocket to defend myself in court. Have you?' Tony has pointed out Noel's inadequacies as a flawed human being - greedy, egocentric, manipulative, lack of originality and constantly driven by money. He also pointed out a few of his own in the interest of balance. If Tony (who was short changed by Noel) can be so magnaminous why can't you? Loving BDI and Liam's recent interview!! Wait until he announces his next movie project!! BigUn. Personally, I don't care that much. But you did promise tunes then reneged...just thought I'd give a reminder. Even if you are real you are a waste of time. A bit player in a story I like...who has no access to anything that I care about. Tony is what Tony is. A drummer that fell out with the leader of his band and was replaced for someone that that songwriter felt executed his vision better. Songwriter/leader may have been a douche...but since when has that ever mattered. Key to success is making urself irreplaceable. He got a lump sum payment and now has written his cash-in book recording Noels flaws. So be it. I was a bit annoyed @ first. But this is what all the almost rans do though, right? A bit like criticizing a dog for licking itself. So who cares really.
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bigun
Madferrit Fan
Seem to be lots of negativity and untruths flying around this forum. Noel would be proud.
Posts: 52
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Post by bigun on Jan 7, 2011 13:17:32 GMT -5
Obviously by taking the time to post this comment, you do!!
It's easy to look down your nose at people and be negative. All I ask is what bit part in what story do you play?
Take it easy,
BigUn.
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Post by gdforever on Jan 7, 2011 13:25:00 GMT -5
The demos? Are you not gonna post them then. Attacking me to distract from the fact you haven't posted what you promised isn't really working.
Why on earth do you care whetther I think that you are real anyways?
You're some guy on the internet...why would you EXPECT someone to just trust that you are really. It's the perpetual idea that behind every 6 foot model online there is a 400 lb fat man. It's not as if I am specifically picking on you...it's just I try not to believe anyone that professes anything without proof online.
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on Jan 7, 2011 13:27:10 GMT -5
Obviously by taking the time to post this comment, you do!! It's easy to look down your nose at people and be negative. All I ask is what bit part in what story do you play? Take it easy, BigUn. I side with BigUn here, actually. He may side more with Tony and may be bias because of it, but so what? He has connections with the band members, and while we can take his opinions with a grain of salt, at least he's offering some sort of inside information. As I stated, I won't be buying or reading Tony's book. And I don't fully believe in everything Bigun espouses, but that doesn't render his existence on this forum meaningless.
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on Jan 7, 2011 13:29:09 GMT -5
The demos? Are you not gonna post them then. Attacking me to distract from the fact you haven't posted what you promised isn't really working. Transferring songs from tape to the computer isn't exactly easy. I don't know how to do it, and I've grown up with technology. Once the songs are on the computer, it's pretty simple to upload them to a site where we can listen, but to get the songs to the computer I believe requires additional equipment. Ergo, he's probably not lying at all, but merely just doesn't have the means to be able to do it at the moment. Fair enough.
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Post by spaneli on Jan 7, 2011 13:29:26 GMT -5
Still wondering about those demos.
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