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Post by sword on Oct 23, 2010 15:45:31 GMT -5
Nearly once had a fight with Noel in France. And the last Oasis album has my name in it. Explain, please. please! no! not now! It's a long, long story! In short it's a story i've told on here many times. It was backstage after Oasis had soundchecked in the afternoon, before a gig in Lyon, France. Long story. Noel was a rude bastard. Girls cried. Fans were shocked. I was shocked. After three (yes x 3 insults to me from Noel) i snapped). Let's just say strong words were said. Check out the bootleg from Lyon, June 2002. Listen to the opening of Little By Little. Listen to what Noel says to the English fans in the crowd. Miserable bastard. I often wonder why i travelled abroad to watch Oasis.
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Post by lillyjean123 on Oct 23, 2010 15:56:37 GMT -5
Go on bigun we love u!
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Post by Rita on Oct 23, 2010 16:12:21 GMT -5
Well, we all know (or at least we should know) that Noel can be a real idiot sometimes, and us Oasis fans have to learn how to create a distance (and fortunately sword, you do it) otherwise we could get seriously shocked or disappointed (like those girls you talked about). That doesn't mean we can't love him... I mean, he is still a role model for me, and I still respect and admire him unconditionally (although that's just something personal and I do have my own reasons, as much as anyone else), despite of all the idiocies he might have said. After all, he also said some of the most beautiful and meaningful things that helped me shape who I am today. But we can't just be blinded by someone we don't know, that's a fact, so we ought to be careful. I'm pretty sure Tony is a nice person, and I cannot imagine how it felt for him to take so much shit out of so many people, and I do understand that he wants to take it off his chest and have some sort of revenge against Noel. As I said, I haven't bought the book yet, but I will, and I will read it, but I still maintain that "NON-GRATEFUL" thing is just ridiculous, I'm sorry but it is. He could have done it in a classier way (which I hope he does inside the book).
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bigun
Madferrit Fan
Seem to be lots of negativity and untruths flying around this forum. Noel would be proud.
Posts: 52
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Post by bigun on Oct 23, 2010 16:27:01 GMT -5
I'm sorry if the 'Non Gratitude' reference seemed a bit much for you but I'm sure it was done tongue in cheek. Just a little bit of Mancunian tit for tat.
The book is much more than just a swipe at Noel. I hope you enjoy it. Just to let you know my underpants were clean (you'll understand).
Nice one Reet!!
Yours in bed nearing tiredness, BigUn
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on Oct 23, 2010 16:28:07 GMT -5
Handbags are out once more I see. 'His (Noel's) songs were simply pieces of brilliance' 'Noel had the drive to take us where we had to go' 'We all had utmost respect for Noel' these are a few of the statements made by Tony in the book. If you ask Tony he will tell you that Noel is a fantastic songwriter and has a rapier wit. He totally accepts that Noel was the driving force. Its easy to single out an article and then scream 'witchhunt'. The ignorant masses normally follow. Tony has a pop or two at Noel (very few to be honest) and this is mainly during the time when they were at each other's throats. In the book Tony makes a point which I feel is extremely relevant. He mentions that he is recalling, without doubt, the most important years of his life during which some real fortunate and unfortunate events occured. When Tony speaks of the underhand way that Noel went about his business he is still ill at ease with it. I can't blame him, what Noel did was wrong. Like I have previously stated though he is in no way bitter or angry about it. He has told his story in a truthful way and if the facts don't sit well with you I'm afraid that can't be helped. You are though, as you quite rightly say, entitled to your opinion. Shame it couldn't be a more open minded or light hearted one. In terms of the article highlighted that has been labelled 'vindictive and childhish' I would like to issue the following statement - 'Shut it you gimp. Noel has routinely lambasted Tony for the last fifteen years. Who's the vindictive child? Noel needs to let go. And finally can I assure anyone suffering from paranoid delusions out there that I have not set up any fake accounts to air my views. Why would I need to? See a doctor. He'll have tablets. Yours, on my knees in humility, BigUn All Noel ever said, publicly at least, was that Tony was a poor drummer and couldn't have made the MG album. Hardly an onslaught....
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Post by gdforever on Oct 23, 2010 17:58:34 GMT -5
Noel doesn't really talk that much about his ex-band-members. You all make it sound like every interview that Noel has done over the last 15 years he has mentioned Tony. The fact is that Noel is generally sardonic and cutting towards just about everyone. There are very few people that escape unscathed. Friends and foes. I mean...I have heard him make almost as many jokes about his mother as I have heard him make jokes about Tony...it is kind of just the way he is. But it all seems to be said generally to get a laugh...@ least in this century. I usually think that it is funny and don't take it too seriously.
It's hardly as if Noel has been spending the past 15 years on some vendetta against Tony. So I don't see why everyone is getting so up in arms about it now. Most of the actual hard-core comments were made in the mid-90's, shortly after their falling out and then during the subsequent lawsuit.
The fact is that people cared more about what Noel said and it's all recorded for us to judge him on now. He was not, and is not, afraid to air his personal opinions in public. Which frankly is something that I thought that I thought that Oasis fans appreciated about both Gallagher brothers, even if we don't agree with it. But apparently not according to some of the people here...they'd maybe have rathered Noel be tactical and never say a bad word about anyone? Saying everything being constantly amazing?
BigUn...can you honestly say that if we had written, audio, and video evidence of every opinion Tony had circa 1995-1998 that every comment that came out of his mouth would be well-considered and balanced?
The fact is that Noel was a junkie. Additionally he was a junkie with a God-complex because he had everything at his finger-tips being the leader of one of the biggest groups his country had ever seen.
I mean...Noel was a a douche and I am sure that he probably was for years...but I am sure that he didn't single-handedly muscle Tony out. Even Noel's management got a thank-you...and I guarantee that they weren't lily-white in the matter of Noel v. Tony.
I do think it was a bit churlish to specifically single out Noel and Guigs as the only people that you are not grateful for. They were 2/5 of the group that dragged you out of the gutter with one of them being the songwriter to boot. So yeah...if he wanted to portray himself as a man interested in putting out the truth and not just someone having a dig @ Noel...he could have made a better decision there. It really doesn't help with appearances. I think that that is as bad as Noel knocking Tony. If Tony wanted to make the point with this book that the credit should be spread evenly he did a pretty poor job in taking that tack himself.
You know what they say. An-eye-for-an-eye makes the world go blind
The fact is that it's all well and good for everyone to say that Tony has a right to take pops @ Noel since Noel has been taking them for years! But the fact is that Tony is not Noel. Noel will be around on radio, TV, magazines, newpapers for years to come. He will get a chance to redress everything that he has ever said and present his story for years to come. He will have the opportunity, when he is older and all the lingering bitterness has faded, to present his version of events as many times as he wants to. The narrative of Noel is far from over. Tony doesn't have that luxury. This was it. He may never have the chance to present his story on this scale again.
It's just a bit of a pity if his lasting narrative is full of slights against Noel. Noel has said everything that he has said off-the-cuff in interviews. We all know that Noel isn't the best @ self editing. Tony however wrote this all down...mulled it over...reread it...had it proof-read and edited...participated in the rewriting...then sent it off to press.
I have a hard time equating a man making sly digs off the cuff to another man spending months-years working on a book that has sly digs.
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Post by jupi on Oct 24, 2010 14:16:44 GMT -5
Well, we all know (or at least we should know) that Noel can be a real idiot sometimes, and us Oasis fans have to learn how to create a distance (and fortunately sword, you do it) otherwise we could get seriously shocked or disappointed (like those girls you talked about). That doesn't mean we can't love him... I mean, he is still a role model for me, and I still respect and admire him unconditionally (although that's just something personal and I do have my own reasons, as much as anyone else), despite of all the idiocies he might have said. After all, he also said some of the most beautiful and meaningful things that helped me shape who I am today. Amen & K+. Didn't see that one coming after all these pages.
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Post by Rita on Oct 24, 2010 14:58:03 GMT -5
^ cheers
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Post by songbird11 on Oct 24, 2010 20:20:08 GMT -5
Here's the thing,tony didn't last long with oasis so obviously as noel is & were the main spokesman for the band then pbviously that's why he gave all the interviews which is why over the year we've heard more of his opinions on members etc,it's not that noel just brings up tony in past interviews,he gets asked so he answers the uestions,it's as imple as that.
ALSO - bigUn you're a fake,you joined this forum 5 months ago to promote a book which you're part of,so the more people that buy it the more you'll get out of it? or maybe not.
Or you know how shit the book is yet you keep on like it's great just so people will waste money on it,i wouldn't waste my time.
people go on about noel & how he speaks about people,everyone has their own way of saying things,it's just his way,he's never really serious most times.
Noel's a good judge of character
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Post by jilliam on Oct 26, 2010 13:49:48 GMT -5
QUESTION FOR BIGUN;
Someone on this thread or on some site posted something to the effect that Noel or one of his assistants had a read through of the book and "certain" incidences had to be omitted out of the book. If you had a chance to view the manuscript before it was edited is there anything you can toss our way?
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Post by tomlivesforever on Oct 26, 2010 13:57:01 GMT -5
Noel's a good judge of character How the hell would you know?
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Post by lillyjean123 on Oct 26, 2010 15:25:34 GMT -5
Loads taken out
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Post by themanwithnoname on Oct 27, 2010 7:57:35 GMT -5
All Noel ever said, publicly at least, was that Tony was a poor drummer and couldn't have made the MG album. Hardly an onslaught.... [/quote] You're joking aren't you? I can think of a couple straight away, like the time he said the band didn't need a penis extension because they'd already got one in the drummer (ie Tony). Then there was the infamous 1997 Radio 1 interview when he told Liam he was 'talking out of his Tony McCarroll' (ie his arse). Noel's been slagging Tony off for years - both during and after his time in the band. I can't say I blame Tony for now wanting to get a bit of revenge after so many years of public and private humiliation. Personally, I found the book very funny and I just know that if Noel had come out with the insults that Tony did certain people on here would be comparing him to Noel Coward. Actually, that's a lie. They wouldn't because they're too ignorant to know who the fuck Noel Coward is.
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Post by His Royal Noelness on Oct 27, 2010 8:01:58 GMT -5
LOOK AT ME!!!!! I'M INTELLECTUAL!!!
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Post by sword on Oct 27, 2010 8:12:47 GMT -5
Finally bought this book. So far i've read the first couple of chapters. Quite good so far. The early years in Manchester just before they all started a band. Some brilliant black and white photos included. I like the one from Sheffield Arena 1995.
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Post by themanwithnoname on Oct 27, 2010 8:47:42 GMT -5
LOOK AT ME!!!!! I'M INTELLECTUAL!!! Did someone get a dictionary for their birthday?
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Post by His Royal Noelness on Oct 27, 2010 8:56:10 GMT -5
Did someone get a dictionary for their birthday? You just did it again....
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Post by jilliam on Oct 27, 2010 19:13:02 GMT -5
All Noel ever said, publicly at least, was that Tony was a poor drummer and couldn't have made the MG album. Hardly an onslaught.... You're joking aren't you? I can think of a couple straight away, like the time he said the band didn't need a penis extension because they'd already got one in the drummer (ie Tony). Then there was the infamous 1997 Radio 1 interview when he told Liam he was 'talking out of his Tony McCarroll' (ie his arse). Noel's been slagging Tony off for years - both during and after his time in the band. I can't say I blame Tony for now wanting to get a bit of revenge after so many years of public and private humiliation. Personally, I found the book very funny and I just know that if Noel had come out with the insults that Tony did certain people on here would be comparing him to Noel Coward. Actually, that's a lie. They wouldn't because they're too ignorant to know who the fuck Noel Coward is. [/quote] KUDOS.
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Post by gdforever on Oct 27, 2010 20:15:16 GMT -5
So...I've been reading the book over the past few days. I've got to say...I am disappointed so far. I was expecting it to be funny and personal @ least...but I don't find it so.
One of the most interesting things that find most interesting through reading it is that Tony in the book lacks anything resembling personality. I have reached the point where they are in the Sony headquarters signing their contract. Tony has yet to have DONE anything substantial...or even thought anything substantial. The book seems to be a series of mini-biographies told via Tony. He almost seems to be an incidental character in his own life! LOL. I know more about the personalities of some incidental characters such as Jimmy the Butt or Trampy Spike (if you've read the book you know who I mean) than I do about Tony. In almost every situation that Tony finds himself in this book he spends more time attributing thoughts and feeling to the people that had been around him @ the time than what was actually going through his head. I find it very interesting the fact that he describes all of his experiences through somebody elses emotions and supposed thoughts. And a bit offputting since I can't help but think...how do you know what he was thinking or feeling in that moment?
For a book that is supposed to be a memoir I find it utterly lacking in self reflection or personal emotion. I mean, 1/3 of the way through the book I should know some of the personality traits of Tony. He hasn't admitted to a mistake he's regretted (and I don't mean in relation to Noel or Oasis...I mean even in his personal life) but he has been dogged in pointing out the shortcoming of others. (again I don't mean Noel). He seems to do nothing but go with the flow and follow the lead of others. Maybe that's just the writing...or maybe that is really what it was.
Another thing I am surprised about is the treatment of Noel. We all knew there was going to a lot about Noel...so no surprise that he features more than anyone else. What surprises me is the fact that Tony is extremely scatalogical in his description of him. Every time he describes Noel it's something negative...followed closely by something positive that seems to aim @ mediating it or vice versa. It's weird and I wonder what made it that way...I wonder if that was the work of Tony being conflicted and making a concerted effort that he shouldn't be biased or whether it was to work of the editors or ghostwriter.
I also find the negativity towards Noel surprising because Tony seems studiously neutral towards everyone else in the book. Oasis were supposed to have been a group of mates...but there is an absolute lack of any expression of the relationships between any of the bandmembers and Tony let alone between the band members that aren't Tony.
All in all...so far it's a very lukewarm book. Based off what I have read so far I wouldn't recommend it to anyone.
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Post by BlueJay on Oct 27, 2010 23:50:34 GMT -5
its obvious isnt it. Bigun IS tony mccarrol. Pathetically posing under an anonymous name to defend himself on an oasis forum. surely he has better things to do...or maybe not.
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Post by His Royal Noelness on Oct 28, 2010 6:01:47 GMT -5
So...I've been reading the book over the past few days. I've got to say...I am disappointed so far. I was expecting it to be funny and personal @ least...but I don't find it so. One of the most interesting things that find most interesting through reading it is that Tony in the book lacks anything resembling personality. I have reached the point where they are in the Sony headquarters signing their contract. Tony has yet to have DONE anything substantial...or even thought anything substantial. The book seems to be a series of mini-biographies told via Tony. He almost seems to be an incidental character in his own life! LOL. I know more about the personalities of some incidental characters such as Jimmy the Butt or Trampy Spike (if you've read the book you know who I mean) than I do about Tony. In almost every situation that Tony finds himself in this book he spends more time attributing thoughts and feeling to the people that had been around him @ the time than what was actually going through his head. I find it very interesting the fact that he describes all of his experiences through somebody elses emotions and supposed thoughts. And a bit offputting since I can't help but think...how do you know what he was thinking or feeling in that moment? For a book that is supposed to be a memoir I find it utterly lacking in self reflection or personal emotion. I mean, 1/3 of the way through the book I should know some of the personality traits of Tony. He hasn't admitted to a mistake he's regretted (and I don't mean in relation to Noel or Oasis...I mean even in his personal life) but he has been dogged in pointing out the shortcoming of others. (again I don't mean Noel). He seems to do nothing but go with the flow and follow the lead of others. Maybe that's just the writing...or maybe that is really what it was. Another thing I am surprised about is the treatment of Noel. We all knew there was going to a lot about Noel...so no surprise that he features more than anyone else. What surprises me is the fact that Tony is extremely scatalogical in his description of him. Every time he describes Noel it's something negative...followed closely by something positive that seems to aim @ mediating it or vice versa. It's weird and I wonder what made it that way...I wonder if that was the work of Tony being conflicted and making a concerted effort that he shouldn't be biased or whether it was to work of the editors or ghostwriter. I also find the negativity towards Noel surprising because Tony seems studiously neutral towards everyone else in the book. Oasis were supposed to have been a group of mates...but there is an absolute lack of any expression of the relationships between any of the bandmembers and Tony let alone between the band members that aren't Tony. All in all...so far it's a very lukewarm book. Based off what I have read so far I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. It's nice to see someone that agrees with me on this. It is possibly the worst biography I have read. It's purely a medium for Tony's pathetic attempt to get back at Noel. its obvious isnt it. Bigun IS tony mccarrol. Pathetically posing under an anonymous name to defend himself on an oasis forum. surely he has better things to do...or maybe not. Bigun is actually a real person. There's a picture of him in the book and he features quiet heavily in it.
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Post by themanwithnoname on Oct 28, 2010 8:17:25 GMT -5
So...I've been reading the book over the past few days. I've got to say...I am disappointed so far. I was expecting it to be funny and personal @ least...but I don't find it so. One of the most interesting things that find most interesting through reading it is that Tony in the book lacks anything resembling personality. I have reached the point where they are in the Sony headquarters signing their contract. Tony has yet to have DONE anything substantial...or even thought anything substantial. The book seems to be a series of mini-biographies told via Tony. He almost seems to be an incidental character in his own life! LOL. I know more about the personalities of some incidental characters such as Jimmy the Butt or Trampy Spike (if you've read the book you know who I mean) than I do about Tony. In almost every situation that Tony finds himself in this book he spends more time attributing thoughts and feeling to the people that had been around him @ the time than what was actually going through his head. I find it very interesting the fact that he describes all of his experiences through somebody elses emotions and supposed thoughts. And a bit offputting since I can't help but think...how do you know what he was thinking or feeling in that moment? For a book that is supposed to be a memoir I find it utterly lacking in self reflection or personal emotion. I mean, 1/3 of the way through the book I should know some of the personality traits of Tony. He hasn't admitted to a mistake he's regretted (and I don't mean in relation to Noel or Oasis...I mean even in his personal life) but he has been dogged in pointing out the shortcoming of others. (again I don't mean Noel). He seems to do nothing but go with the flow and follow the lead of others. Maybe that's just the writing...or maybe that is really what it was. Another thing I am surprised about is the treatment of Noel. We all knew there was going to a lot about Noel...so no surprise that he features more than anyone else. What surprises me is the fact that Tony is extremely scatalogical in his description of him. Every time he describes Noel it's something negative...followed closely by something positive that seems to aim @ mediating it or vice versa. It's weird and I wonder what made it that way...I wonder if that was the work of Tony being conflicted and making a concerted effort that he shouldn't be biased or whether it was to work of the editors or ghostwriter. I also find the negativity towards Noel surprising because Tony seems studiously neutral towards everyone else in the book. Oasis were supposed to have been a group of mates...but there is an absolute lack of any expression of the relationships between any of the bandL4E Members and Tony let alone between the band L4E Members that aren't Tony. All in all...so far it's a very lukewarm book. Based off what I have read so far I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. I agree to a certain extent, although I think Tony probably figured people would be far more interested in reading about Noel and Liam than about him so he's geared it accordingly. By the way, 'scatalogical' means being preoccupied with poo so I think you meant something else there. Cue abuse from oasisandtoonfan ;D
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Post by sword on Oct 28, 2010 10:32:17 GMT -5
I'm about 3/4 way through. It's not a bad effort. More of a fly on the wall diary. Similar to the book by Paulo Hewitt (Forever The People). Although Tony doesn't go into great detail about his own performance, ambitions and input, the book is not really aimed at this. It's more an insight into band politics, ego's, back stabbing and what went on behind the scenes. Quite interesting. If you have read the book by Ian Robertson, then this book by Tony is a good compliment. Life on the road and behind the scenes in the early years.
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Post by gdforever on Oct 28, 2010 12:22:49 GMT -5
By the way, 'scatalogical' means being preoccupied with poo so I think you meant something else there. Possibly it's a regional slang thing. I don't know. Try the urban dictionary though. Scatalogical "Used to describe an idea or way of thinking that is neither sensible or logical." via urban dictionary...that is how I meant it. It can't be that regionalized though because I googled it for this post and found that their are examplesof it being used like I used it in the Huffington Post, Washington Post, and News Week. www.wordnik.com/words/scatalogicalSorry if that word didn't make sense to anyone else.
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Post by gdforever on Oct 28, 2010 12:52:03 GMT -5
I'm about 3/4 way through. It's not a bad effort. More of a fly on the wall diary. Similar to the book by Paulo Hewitt (Forever The People). Although Tony doesn't go into great detail about his own performance, ambitions and input, the book is not really aimed at this. It's more an insight into band politics, ego's, back stabbing and what went on behind the scenes. Quite interesting. If you have read the book by Ian Robertson, then this book by Tony is a good compliment. Life on the road and behind the scenes in the early years. That's not exactly what it says on the tin though, is it? It's supposed to be the first biography by a member of Oasis...so it says on my booksleeve. So yeah...I expected a book full of nuance and explanations about why things happened handled in a way that they were...other than that Noel decided it single-handedly and Tony sat in a corner frustrated that he hadn't been asked. So far the book is a study in generalities. I don't see where you get that it is about band politics or even egos that aren't Noel's. And all the backstabbing that I have read so far has been Noel backstabbing Tony, not even the rest of the band. They have been in a band for 3 years as far as I have read...I don't know anything about Boneheads relationship with anyone other than Noel (and that is only because Tony relates a single incident in which Bonehead yells @ Noel 1 year into the band or so and nothing beyond that) and Tony (and that is just that he liked him when he met him because he was a fun drunk). I know nothing about Guigs relationship with anyone (not even Tony although Tony was friends with Guigs more than just about anyone and appeared earlier in the book than anyone). I have a half-assed impression on Liam and Noel singularly lacking in any sort of nuance. Basically Liam is a desperately Noel-approval seeking young man who never did anything that could possibly be construed as provocative towards Noel, and Noel is a bully who does nothing but insult Liam. Basically Liam is a 6 day old puppy and Noel is the guy that kicks him. I find the description reductive to the point of charicature. Even more so than the view of them in the tabloids...and that takes some doing I think. And I know nothing about Liam's relationship with anyone else! Noel is the only person that has related with every person in the book...and mostly it's just a series of encounters in which Noel is running roughshod over 'em How can it be a behind the scenes memoire if there is no information on band dynamics?...other than Noel walked around bullying people, Liam panted waiting for approval, Bonehead sat on a fence, Guigs constantly agreed with Noel, and Tony is a void. Honestly this book has actually left me with more respect, rather than less, for Noel's involvement in the success of Oasis. I find it interesting that Tony asserts early in the book that it was far from a case of Noel being the chief from the moment that he joined the band and then he spends the next few chapters giving lie to that claim. But the fact is that even from his description that seems to have have been very much the case. It was Noel that got them on the Radio the first time, that got them in the studio with the Real People (who Tony gives more credit for DM than pretty much anyone else...even Oasis it seems like @ times), got them their first TV appearance (although their portion ended up not-airing), and single-handedly got them in touch with people like Johnny Marr and Mark Russell who would be their management. Honestly...I think that Noel worked harder than I thought that he did in those early years...the way that he always told was that it all just kinda fell into place. They practiced, they gigged a few times, they got picked up by McGee, it was all golden. But I can't help but realise that for every one of these opportunities that Noel presented to the band (Tony seems to have been oblivious to how most of them came about...so I am guessing that he wasn't actually keeping that close an eye on what Noel was doing...little did he know that one day money would rely on him recalling the minutia of everything that Noel did in those early years) there must have been dozens of failed attempts.
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