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Post by Mr. Monobrow on Dec 10, 2010 9:18:45 GMT -5
I have to admit that it does irk me when people retroactively try to give Noel less credit for the songs that he wrote. True, but in Rockin' Chair in particular, this song had it's credit changed - on it's original release on the Roll With It single it was down as "written by Noel Gallagher", but on it's next release on The Masterplan, suddenly the name C. Griffiths popped up next to Noel's name. So there is physical evidence of some, not all, but some of the claims made here.
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Post by NYR on Dec 10, 2010 14:52:31 GMT -5
I have to admit that it does irk me when people retroactively try to give Noel less credit for the songs that he wrote. True, but in Rockin' Chair in particular, this song had it's credit changed - on it's original release on the Roll With It single it was down as "written by Noel Gallagher", but on it's next release on The Masterplan, suddenly the name C. Griffiths popped up next to Noel's name. So there is physical evidence of some, not all, but some of the claims made here. was he was sued over it?
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Post by sunshheeeyine on Dec 10, 2010 15:05:51 GMT -5
^^They did yes
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Post by shoes222 on Dec 11, 2010 5:50:36 GMT -5
I have to admit that it does irk me when people retroactively try to give Noel less credit for the songs that he wrote. True, but in Rockin' Chair in particular, this song had it's credit changed - on it's original release on the Roll With It single it was down as "written by Noel Gallagher", but on it's next release on The Masterplan, suddenly the name C. Griffiths popped up next to Noel's name. So there is physical evidence of some, not all, but some of the claims made here. Wouldn't you agree though that that is more like the exception, not the rule? I was under the impression that most Oasis fans knew about the Real People's involvement on Rockin' Chair. In all other cases, we know that Noel loves to take bits and pieces from some of his favorite songs, he's the first to acknowledge it and there's nothing underhanded about it. The point I was trying to make in my last post is that none of this is going to affect Oasis' overall legacy, because the band's most well known songs and the songs they'll be remembered for remain untarnished.
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Post by Mr. Monobrow on Dec 11, 2010 6:40:17 GMT -5
Wouldn't you agree though that that is more like the exception, not the rule? I was under the impression that most Oasis fans knew about the Real People's involvement on Rockin' Chair. In all other cases, we know that Noel loves to take bits and pieces from some of his favorite songs, he's the first to acknowledge it and there's nothing underhanded about it. The point I was trying to make in my last post is that none of this is going to affect Oasis' overall legacy, because the band's most well known songs and the songs they'll be remembered for remain untarnished.[/quote] True enough.
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Post by oasisshare on Dec 11, 2010 23:53:42 GMT -5
First proper post I've made on an Oasis forum in about three years. Just finished the book the other day and must say I thoroughly enjoyed it. Been looking for a thread to write my thoughts in but bloody hell, 12 pages? Took me the better part of an hour to comb through it all. I got to the point where I just had to skip over the novel-esque responses from a few of ya. Not to say your opinions were shit or anything, I just couldn't be bothered reading the same points being made just a different way over and over again. While yes, Tony did have his fair share of goes at Noel in the book, I can't blame the guy. One thing for certain is that the book opened my mind up as a fan to the type of person Noel was back in the early days of Oasis. From the stories I read, he did come off as a right prick, and truth be told, I reckon Tony would have lasted longer in the band had he just took Noel with a pinch of salt and not got worked up and spoke his mind the way he did. But fair game to Tony for doing so. He's an emotional type guy like myself, and I'd imagine I'd of hit my boiling point and spoken up too. Since reading, I have found myself browsing through old bootlegs having a listen to snippets here and there just to have a soundtrack to the stories shared from the nights those songs were performed. Overall, I had an excellent time reading and laughed out loud at many parts in the book. I'm now feeling quite keen on having a go at Ian Robertson's book as well just to have a laugh at a few more first-hand stories and fill in the blank more on their beginnings and the binge sessions that came along with that. Like sword pointed out, I too found a few errors that stuck out to me like a sore thumb. Namely just dates and what not. Miniscule in the grand scheme of things, but something worth pointing out. Apart from noticing Tony mentioning Whatever as the 4th single (and me subsequently thinking to myself, "wait a minute?...."), a few others I took notice of were: pg 231 - 22 April 1995. Sheffield Arena, Sheffield pg 232 - 17 April 1994. The White Room, London pg 233 - 24 April 1995. 'Some might Say' is released. Reached no.1 in the singles charts A bit out of chronological order there and the misprint of the year on page 232 confused me a bit. But again, not here to knock the errors, just wanted to point them out. The book as a whole was very enjoyable and Tony comes off as a likeable guy who just let his emotions get the best of him, spoke up at the wrong time and got the punt for it unfortunately. Good on him though for dishing a bit back and having his say after 15 years of having it dished his way by Noel. And to all of you backing Noel on this, seriously, why? I appreciate the love for Noel, but why waste the time making moot points? I couldn't help but shake my head at some of the things said in these last 12 pages. But hey, everyone's entitled to their own opinion at the end of the day. Really appreciated BigUn's posts as well. While a lot of you were getting winded up, I found it great he took the time to share his thoughts, something he really didn't have to do. BigUn, you come off as a geezer. Just the kind of guy I'd love to have a drink with. Someone with a ton of good stories to share. Don't let some of these folks rile you up. Did your technologically savvy mate ever figure out how to get those casette tracks transferred to the PC by the way? Been about a month since you mentioned that. Real keen on having a listen to those and surprised nothing more has been said of those recordings. And a few questions I'm left with: 1) I'm going off the top of my head here and not exactly sure which song or date Tony was referring to as I don't have the book with me at the moment, but has anyone come across the recording Tony mentioned at the end of the book where Noel round up the band backstage saying, "we're going back on for an encore," when Tony took to the stage a few minutes before the rest of the band, banging out a minute or two drum solo intro to Supersonic (or was it I Am The Walrus)? I checked a few bootlegs such as 1995-04-20 - Bataclan, Paris, France and 1995-04-22 - Sheffield Arena thinking it might be one one of those, but came across no extended drum solo during an encore for any of those gigs. 2) Tony mentioned Oasis's first ever TV performance for Granada TV recorded in 1992 (or was it 1993?) where the band performed "Take Me". Unfortunately it was never aired and this performance never saw the light of day. But surely, there must be a dusty old VHS tape of it kicking about somewhere? Perhaps aging on a shelf in the basement of the television studio, or in a box in an attic of a prominent retired Granada employee? If there's a chance of the video of this performance out there somewhere, who thinks it would be a good idea to round up the troops, much like the way we did with Noel's demos, and try to get more info on the whereabouts of this video and perhaps have it rightfully viewed by the fans as it was meant to be all those years ago? What a gem of a find that would be! Well that's about all I've got for now. All the best.
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Post by birchy on Dec 12, 2010 8:49:17 GMT -5
... 2) Tony mentioned Oasis's first ever TV performance for Granada TV recorded in 1992 (or was it 1993?) where the band performed "Take Me". Unfortunately it was never aired and this performance never saw the light of day. But surely, there must be a dusty old VHS tape of it kicking about somewhere? Perhaps aging on a shelf in the basement of the television studio, or in a box in an attic of a prominent retired Granada employee? If there's a chance of the video of this performance out there somewhere, who thinks it would be a good idea to round up the troops, much like the way we did with Noel's demos, and try to get more info on the whereabouts of this video and perhaps have it rightfully viewed by the fans as it was meant to be all those years ago? What a gem of a find that would be! That would be a gem. I wonder if BigUn has a copy.
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Post by oasisshare on Dec 12, 2010 11:15:16 GMT -5
... 2) Tony mentioned Oasis's first ever TV performance for Granada TV recorded in 1992 (or was it 1993?) where the band performed "Take Me". Unfortunately it was never aired and this performance never saw the light of day. But surely, there must be a dusty old VHS tape of it kicking about somewhere? Perhaps aging on a shelf in the basement of the television studio, or in a box in an attic of a prominent retired Granada employee? If there's a chance of the video of this performance out there somewhere, who thinks it would be a good idea to round up the troops, much like the way we did with Noel's demos, and try to get more info on the whereabouts of this video and perhaps have it rightfully viewed by the fans as it was meant to be all those years ago? What a gem of a find that would be! That would be a gem. I wonder if BigUn has a copy. Nope, unfortunately none of them do. Here's what it says directly from the book, starting from page 68. No actual date is given, but it takes place after they took off a couple months in January 1992. I'm assuming in or a bit before April which is when they started to pick up a few gigs again. (a bit later on the next page) As for the first question I had, I came across the passage in the book, starting on page 230 (Under section 20 April 1995. Le Bataclan, Paris).. Right, so I checked my Bataclan bootleg, and no sign of a 3 minute Supersonic drum intro encore. Anyone else want to have a look at their collections to see if they can find the recording he's speaking of? Cheers
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Post by morning_rain on Dec 14, 2010 4:53:59 GMT -5
Thanks for sharing Brokenbeat9. Hope someone here can find the recording.
My english isn't perfect so I don't think I got the story. They kept Tony playing alone and instead of joining the band kept staring at him? Also Noel threw at him his cigarette and left?
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Post by oasisshare on Dec 14, 2010 18:44:47 GMT -5
Thanks for sharing Brokenbeat9. Hope someone here can find the recording. My english isn't perfect so I don't think I got the story. They kept Tony playing alone and instead of joining the band kept staring at him? Also Noel threw at him his cigarette and left? Not quite I will give a quick version of what it said. During the encore in Tony's second to last concert with the band, Tony went on stage first. Upon getting up there, Tony did a three minute drum solo intro to Supersonic before the rest of the band joined him on stage. As Noel walked on to the stage, he flicked his cigarette towards Tony. Or so he says. I can't find any proof of this three minute drum solo on my '95 Le Bataclan Paris bootleg.
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Post by morning_rain on Dec 16, 2010 5:57:29 GMT -5
Now I get it, thanks Brokenbeat!
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bigun
Madferrit Fan
Seem to be lots of negativity and untruths flying around this forum. Noel would be proud.
Posts: 52
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Post by bigun on Dec 16, 2010 9:46:32 GMT -5
I was there and I can tell you that Tony has got it wrong!! It wasn't an extended drum solo but Noel did make Tony go out on his own on stage with the band then joining later!! Guess the writer got confused. All of us thought it odd that Noel made him do that and within a couple of weeks Tony was dust!
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Post by beadyeyeunofficial on Dec 17, 2010 14:29:15 GMT -5
Bigun, can you please tell Tony (if you see him) that I love his drumming in Oasis. I personally think he was Oasis' best drummer and, in particular, Bring it On Down was absolutely fantastic. He has every right to publish his book - he's taken all kinds of shit from Noel for fifteen years, it's about time Tony got his own back.
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Post by gavincampbell on Dec 19, 2010 18:47:31 GMT -5
Just read 12 pages and still dunno if the book is worth buying or not
supersonic : someone said in the 12 pages that it was a jam that noel then added lyrics to ? sorry but thats not what we have come to know and anyone who has the old vhs "unauthorised oasis" the sound engineer (dave ?) whos dog is elsa with the horrible farts say that noel said "bonehead give me a chord" so therefore noel initiated surely ?
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Post by martinpaul on Dec 20, 2010 11:50:32 GMT -5
All I've got to say after reading through this is some of you would swear that Noel's shit doesn't stink
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Post by gavincampbell on Dec 20, 2010 13:39:13 GMT -5
Didn't a family member of Noel's not use that very definition ?
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Post by jupi on Dec 23, 2010 9:09:24 GMT -5
Just read 12 pages and still dunno if the book is worth buying or not supersonic : someone said in the 12 pages that it was a jam that noel then added lyrics to ? sorry but thats not what we have come to know and anyone who has the old vhs "unauthorised oasis" the sound engineer (dave ?) whos dog is elsa with the horrible farts say that noel said "bonehead give me a chord" so therefore noel initiated surely ? I think that it might have been a jam at the first stage. They used to do a lot of jamming during the soundchecks etc., we know that, and if you listen to old soundchecks from 1994 there's even bits of Champagne Supernova! I wouldn't be suprised if Noel got the main riff and some other guitar parts of Supersonic in his head a long time before he wrote Supersonic. Maybe they just did some instrumental jamming on the studio where Noel used those riffs. When they realized that they could record a brand new song in that session where they were suposed to record Bring It On Down, Noel just put his earlier ideas together and wrote the lyrics.
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Post by gavincampbell on Dec 23, 2010 13:15:15 GMT -5
Again still instigated by Noel surely ?
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Post by retrocool73 on Dec 26, 2010 10:10:01 GMT -5
Having approached this book from a pretty 'neutral' perspective, I was pleasantly suprised by how good Tony's book was. I've read many a music-related biography and this is definitely one of the best (far better than, for instance, Paolo Hewitt's "The Changing Man") I've read in some time. I have seen the band live 3 times (twice in the 90s) and have all the albums etc, and like the vast majority of their work and my opinion of Tony before picking up this book was pretty much what Noel had generated during the past 15 years, namely that Mr McCarroll was just a chancer & a pillock, and a man who blew his big chance due to being a very limited drummer. Now, I'm pretty media savvy & have been immersed in rock music for all of my life (not professionally, so put away your conspiracy theories) so if that was opinion, Tony must have been viewed by most others as a complete idiot - so fair game to him at trying to set the record straight, something he has managed to do successfully. Far from being a bitter nearly man (as I expected him to be, a la Gordon "Nobby" Clark or Alan Lancaster) Tony in the book, whilst being pretty to-the-point, comes across as magnanimous in his appreciation of what Noel brought to the band whilst still pointing out what really happened in those days. The "insults" aimed at Noel are nothing compared to what Tony endured in high-profile interviews, and as far as Guigsy is concerned he is also quite clear about what irked him (basic treachery after a long friendship). I'd say McGuigan is the only person to come out of the book in a very poor light (and rightly so), Noel is dealt with pretty fairly. The point of the "Spartans" thing at the end of the book underlines this. Considering what went on McCarroll sprinkles everything with a liberal dose of humility, and still manages to paint the likes of Liam, Bonehead, Paul Gallagher and even Steve White in a great light - as far removed from "bitter ramblings" as you can get. Aside from a few small cock-ups that should have been picked-up in proof reading (DVD's in 1994 for instance) this is a good book. His opinion of Noel is veryfied by the recent public disintegration of the relationship between Liam & Noel - you could liken Liam to a Staffie dog - fearless & eager to please his master in return for kudos & love - and Noel as an irresponsible owner, taking advantage of the pups nature but never rewarding with what he really wants, respect & genuine affection. The situation of the 1993 collusion re: the contracts (making sure the boys were in no fit state to read what they were signing) is unforgiveable, and makes a mockery of what we thought the band stood for. Kudos to BigUn, for as well as being loyal he also appears to responsible for encouraging & mentoring the young Liam Gallagher, and pushing him in the direction of the band & singing in the first place.
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Post by kimallenbewick on Dec 27, 2010 21:27:52 GMT -5
Do anyone know where can I read the book online? I'm definitely not buying a book which reflects Noel as a racist (anti-Irish), dictator, a selfish, cruel and almost a soulless person who is only famous because he stole all his songs from other bands and he hasn't write anything by himself. I'm not saying Tony's version is fake. I can't judge because I haven't read it, that's why I want to read it online, but I'm definitely not paying to read that 'Evil Noel' version of the Noel I've always admired. I don't even have an opinion of the book because I think Tony's story might be true for several reasons. I've heard so many tunes on youtube which are almost the same as some Oasis songs, so Noel clearly borrowed those, or parts of those at least. Talking about Noel personality and all that, I've never seen him as that horrible person the book reflects he is but it might not be a coincidence that all his band ex-mates have gone away from him and have stayed on Liam's side.. On the other hand I could also thing the book is full of fake things because if as Tony says, Noel had stolen his most famous songs from other bands I think someone would say something before right? Denounce him or something. I mean, is very difficult to be almost 20 years making money borrowing songs from other bands without being catched. It's also difficult to me to believe that Noel is a cruel and bad person who never hasn't shown some love to Liam and that Liam is a poor angel looking for Noel's love. I mean, we all know Liam is not an angel and he has been rude and nasty with Noel so many times by insulting him, or whatever. After all, I don't know what to think at all.
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Post by Mr. Monobrow on Dec 27, 2010 22:13:59 GMT -5
If you're in Britain, join your local library.
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Post by kimallenbewick on Dec 27, 2010 23:02:42 GMT -5
I also would like to say something about that BigUn. Of course, I thinks he's the real BigUn of the book and I wouldn't like to say he's lying without knowing, but I don't care who he is or what he has done for the band or whatever. I think you people shouldn't take everything he says as true because he has clearly an interest of saying what he's saying. Why would he take the time to write here and reply anyone's quote defending Tony if so not? I mean, your opinion is not objective and it seems like you've been payed by Tony or like you're his fucking father! You have the same effort to damage Noel's image as Tony and you're part of the book so what you say for me is as non-verified as Tony's book because it's just your point of view of the story, the point of view of someone who obviously hates Noel, and please try not to deny this fact. As more as BigUn tries to convince everybody that Noel is a prick and a bully or whatever, as convinced I'm he's not like that. I would like to think that everybody here is clever to know that the truth is not black or white, it's grey the most of the time so I'm not buying that story of four angel boys in a band being mistreated by the evil boss who is a fucking prick, nasty and cruel person. I mean, I'm not saying all Tony wrote is fake but his point of view seems to be borrowed of a Disney movie.
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Post by barnafin95 on Dec 28, 2010 4:58:44 GMT -5
He said he joined because he was excited about being featured in the book, which is fair enough. I was firmly on Noel's side until reading it, thought Tony was an arse because of the non-gratitudes thing. Having read it, I can see that Tony is a genuine guy who was treated like utter shite by Noel. He is obviously gonna be slighly bitter, but not as much as you'd think and he is reasonable. Besides, he doesnt really have anything to gain by lying as he's essentially a nobody now. Felt sorry for him tbh, Noel has gone down a lot in my eyes after reading it.
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Post by retrocool73 on Dec 28, 2010 6:49:41 GMT -5
Kim.. just read the book, Amazon are doing it at a great price. You're way way off the mark with your current assessment of "Tony vs Noel", as I have stated Tony gives Noel praise where it is due througout the book. None of the band were "angels" but all were used as means to an end once Alan McGee came into the picture, he doesn't allege any songwriting indiscretions other than a few of those early tunes benefitting from sizeable contribution from the Griffiths Brothers (who should have been given credit where it is due) and Columbia which was a Griffiths/Bonehead/Liam collaberation, with it's origins in a pre-Noel group jam, that should have been credited as such. The glorious likes of Live Forever were straight from the mind of Noel, and no-one is saying any different. I don't think anybody is alleging Noel is "evil", but he is a very skillful manipulator of people. Tony is not bitter, which is amazing when you consider Noel got him to sign his record contract when out of his mind on drugs & booze and then had a member of the management team sack him by telephone on the day the band got their first #1 (Sunday 30th April 95) and had a ready replacement waiting in the wings without Noel ever having speaking to him about any of this. As for "anti-Irish", Tony goes to great lengths to reveal that particular incident happened when Noel was a hapless teenage glue sniffer in a gang and, unless you have the insight of growing up in urban Manchester in the 70s & 80s, the anti-Irish thing is hard for an outsider to "get" I'll also point out though that Tony also states that whilst he was in the band fights were not commonplace, with all the venom from Noel directed mainly at him. Once he was given the boot (much to Liam & Boneheads disappointment) within 8 weeks Guigsy quit for the first time and the infamous high-profile Liam/Noel bust-ups began in earnest. It does appear to me that once Noel gave this high-profile flexing of muscles the rest of the band began to realise just were they stood also.
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Post by retrocool73 on Dec 28, 2010 7:46:32 GMT -5
"bitter"? Look the meaning of the word up in a dictionary. What an unintelligent prick you are. McCarroll isn't "slating" Noel and neither am I.
I didn't realise you guys thought the middle brother was such a demi-god, or that this forum existed purely as a vehicle in which to praise Noel Gallagher to the skies.
I joined the forum having read the "offending" book and wanting to find out more about 20 years of Oasis, which I might do once I have waded through the mountain of dreck posted here also.
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