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Post by The Morning Son on Feb 15, 2011 18:33:10 GMT -5
Liam's songwriting is as strong as ever and he is building up a great collection of songs.
Songbird, I'm Outta Time, For Anyone, Wigwam, Morning Son, Born On A Different Cloud, Guess God Thinks I'm Abel & Boy With The Blues just to name a few.
He's started to produce songs that can stand up to some of his brothers work post 1996 which is something I bet the majority of the forum would never believe.
In certain areas he is still well behind (rockers, amount of output), but in other areas like his ballads then he's up there if not better than some of Noels tunes. He is certainly holding is own now.
I love every single one of Liam's song, the vast majority are simply beautiful and hope people can share the love too.
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ciangiff
Oasis Roadie
First page of Time Flies ;)
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Post by ciangiff on Feb 15, 2011 18:38:25 GMT -5
I agree, and he has definitely matured as a songwriter over the years.
From Little James, through I'm Outta Time, to Wigwam.
What a journey.
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Post by Mr. Monobrow on Feb 15, 2011 19:22:40 GMT -5
I've got to disagree with this, unfortunately. It seems like, after 10 years of writing and releasing songs, he's still yet to develop properly. There's just not enough melodic and lyrical changes in his songs. It's like he writes a verse, and an mini-chorus, and then thinks that's enough. Strip Morning Son down to just an acoustic guitar and it's barely a one minute song. For Anyone is the same, the majority of Wigwam also the same, with a couple of different lines and the 3 minute "I'm coming up" bit added on. Bring The Light and Beatles and Stones are the same really. Gem's and Andy's song especially show far more traditional signs of mature songwriting, Liam's don't. Morning Son, for all it's lavish production, is Soldier On part 2 and Better Man part 3. That's been Liam's problem since Songbird. He's the most naturally gifted melodist in Beady Eye, but I really think his songs need more meat to them. At the moment, he's getting bailed out with helpful production which is padding the songs out.
Here's a good comparison: Morning Son has been compared in style to Married With Children and Just Getting Older. The difference between Morning Son and both of those songs - Noel took them somewhere else rather than the verse melody. There's nothing like "and it will be nice to be alone" or "and I bet that this is how life" in Morning Son, just a few la-la-las to the same melody. I loved and still love Songbird because it's so simple. But he can't pull off the same trick again and again, it just gets dull.
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Post by shedboy on Feb 15, 2011 19:30:22 GMT -5
Agree with everything you have said wholeheartedly Mono..especially the "most naturally gifted melodist" part. He's got an eye for melody but he's just not quite there when it comes to putting the jigsaw together. I would have thought Gem or Andy would have helped 'um there but evidently not.
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ciangiff
Oasis Roadie
First page of Time Flies ;)
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Post by ciangiff on Feb 15, 2011 19:34:32 GMT -5
Agree with everything you have said wholeheartedly Mono..especially the "most naturally gifted melodist" part. He's got an eye for melody but he's just not quite there when it comes to putting the jigsaw together. I would have thought Gem or Andy would have helped 'um there but evidently not. I have to say, this and Monobrow's comment are 100% correct. Gem has a talent for developing existing ideas rather than creating something from scratch. It's be great if he could have a stronger input in Liam's songs for this reason. |
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Post by thuperthonic on Feb 15, 2011 19:37:41 GMT -5
He's got an eye for melody Perhaps that's his problem! Use your EARS, Liam! But seriously, I also wouldn't say he's getting better. He's just written more songs so the odds of there being more good Liam songs that one can name are increased. He's just as good/bad as he's always been. |
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Post by ToneBender on Feb 15, 2011 20:06:52 GMT -5
He's not one for writing bridges, it's true. I do think he's come a long way though. He could probably use to have Gem and Andy sit with him and work on song structure a bit. I would bet that the lack of bridges comes from a lack of knowledge about theory. Contrary to what Noel, Gem and Andy say, I'm fairly certain the three of them have quite a bit of knowledge about theory, even if they don't realize they do.
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Post by alwaysnow on Feb 15, 2011 20:07:16 GMT -5
I kinda agree with both points of view.
I think Liam is getting better with his songs, but yes, that doesn't mean he is a developed songwriter yet. He still has lots to learn and his songs often sound unfinished and repetitive, as Mr Mono pointed out, and in the case of songs like Wigwam and The Morning Son, he's helped by gimmicks to make the songs longer and work better (the different parts to Wigwam, changing pace in Morning Son and in the end making everything crash together). Don't get me wrong, I love them both, but I think it's the truth.
However, I think that, one way or another, his songs have been getting better with time. His input in DGSS is better than the songs in DOYS, which at the same time were better than the ones in DBTT. This is opinion, of course, but yeah, I kinda enjoy his songwriting more now than before.
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on Feb 15, 2011 20:08:51 GMT -5
Mono is right. But while Liam hasn't progressed and developed exponentially, he is still able to deliver a good tune. Sometimes it's a bit under developed. But you know what? I'd take a melodic and nice sounding underdeveloped song over a developed song like TNOR, to be fair......
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on Feb 15, 2011 20:10:58 GMT -5
However, I think that, one way or another, his songs have been getting better with time. His input in DGSS is better than the songs in DOYS, which at the same time were better than the ones in DBTT. This is opinion, of course, but yeah, I kinda enjoy his songwriting more now than before. I also agree with this in every sense. |
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Post by ToneBender on Feb 15, 2011 20:23:45 GMT -5
I stand corrected, having listened to Wigwam again. Liam's writing is more complex than I was ready to give him credit for. He's definitely come a long way.
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Post by SunshineLullaby on Feb 15, 2011 22:24:31 GMT -5
Mono is right. But while Liam hasn't progressed and developed exponentially, he is still able to deliver a good tune. Sometimes it's a bit under developed. But you know what? I'd take a melodic and nice sounding underdeveloped song over a developed song like TNOR, to be fair...... Well, thankfully there's more than just those two options. I think what most people are missing is that Liam has admitted (check the press section for his exact quotes) that he doesn't care about songwriting and would be fine if Andy and Gem wrote the next album by themselves. I think he said he writes the songs because they come to him, but it doesn't seem like he has a passion for songwriting the same way he does for singing. I don't know...I was excited about the album, but the only song that really gets me off is Four Letter Word. I hate to say it, but DGSS turned out to be a massive letdown for me. I think the whole thing is generally easy to listen to (has lots of energy and passion, good production) but these are not songs that really cut through on that mysterious level, that place where you can't explain why the song just gave you goosebumps, but it suddenly feels like it's quite a few degrees below freezing. I wish it did, but it just doesn't (for me). |
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face
Madferrit Fan
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Post by face on Feb 15, 2011 22:46:10 GMT -5
mono nailed it.
i don't think liam's progressed from little james honestly.
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keazu
Oasis Roadie
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Post by keazu on Feb 15, 2011 23:39:04 GMT -5
Well I for one am actually quite fond of Little James, as amusing as that may seem.
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Post by wonderplan on Feb 16, 2011 0:07:47 GMT -5
i suppose if you dissect it & analyze the structure of Liam's songs sure it's simple & basic but isn't that the foundation rock n' roll started on? early rock n' roll was pretty straight forward. I simply just enjoy it for what it is. there's certainly enough 'tricks' or variations thrown in along the way that i never grow tired of it & wish the songs to end as i tend to do with so many other bands which is probably why it's very difficult for me to listen to most bands albums all the way through.
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Post by spaneli on Feb 16, 2011 0:18:46 GMT -5
i suppose if you dissect it & analyze the structure of Liam's songs sure it's simple & basic but isn't that the foundation rock n' roll started on? early rock n' roll was pretty straight forward. I simply just enjoy it for what it is. there's certainly enough 'tricks' or variations thrown in along the way that i never grow tired of it & wish the songs to end as i tend to do with so many other bands which is probably why it's very difficult for me to listen to most bands albums all the way through. I agree with Mono. Main reason I didn't give Morning Son a great rating was because it sounded like an under developed Liam track, which in the end really goes no where. But to discuss your point. Yes rock is about the basics. Basic riffs and chord structures which are used over and over again. But Liam's song structures are just too basic, even for, Rock. Liam is basically just verse chorus repeat verse 1, then a chorus. It doesn't take a musical genius to write a bridge. Which is why a bridge is part of basic songwriting structure. A person with Liam's talent should be able to do verse chorus verse chorus bridge chorus (this is basic structure), without a hitch. Long story short, Liam's structures are below basic., and they have not improved to at least basic. Mono is right. There are only so many things that one can really do, when you keep playing around with below basic song structures. The only thing that helps Liam is that, he's not required to give more than 3 or 4 songs for any album. There is really, only so much you can do in the studio. |
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Post by gdforever on Feb 16, 2011 1:56:52 GMT -5
I'm with Mr Mono
That is why his posts are essential reading!
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Post by theultimatewannabe on Feb 16, 2011 2:13:38 GMT -5
Agree with the notion that Liam's songs are structured poorly. There are hints of his potential as a songwriter in Wigwam, BOADC or GGTIA, but a lot of his songs give me the impression that he considers songwriting a boresome chore.
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Post by batfink30 on Feb 16, 2011 5:31:42 GMT -5
I think once again Liam has showed that he struggles to write proper song structures. He's got some great catchy hooks and melodies but it seems he just can't fit them into a proper verse chorus structure. Wigwam starts brilliantly then decends into a ramble for example. It's a real shame because he does have some very catchy melodies. Your think Gem or Andy would help him.
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Post by stinenat on Feb 16, 2011 5:41:34 GMT -5
I agree. He's all attitude, kind of illiterate.
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Post by Mr. Monobrow on Feb 16, 2011 6:31:26 GMT -5
Morning Son is such a frustrating song to listen to. I'm sat there listening to it for the first time begging it do go somewhere, anywhere. And it doesn't, when you strip it down, it's just a 30 second melody for 6 minutes. Now that's not to say that that can't work sometimes, but for Liam's it's too often and that's 3 album closers which he's written which follow the same pattern. But Morning Son is by far the best of those in terms of lyrics, melody and vocal performance. It's potential is massive but it's final execution is a massive let down.
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Post by dreamweaver on Feb 16, 2011 7:49:49 GMT -5
I'm not writing about myself here as I am a huge Oasis fan and I love The new album from Beady Eye. Yes it has it's crap moments but I'm not a rose tinted spectacles kinda guy, I'm not ashamed to press the old skip button on Oasis / Beady eye albums whereas in the past I would never dream of doing that haha.
My GF doesn't like Oasis overall but what I have noticed is that her fave songs pretty much appear to be Liams efforts rather than Noels which is interesting, and for the past few years i have to admit I have found Liams efforts easier to listen to and definitely more catchy in some parts than Noels songs.
She loves I'm outta time, so does my mum coincidentally and also Love like a Bomb which never gets a mention on here in Liams back catalogue but it's actually a crackin song (better than Falling down or Bag it up, whichever is seen as Noels most recent masterpiece).
Liam lets himself down with the likes of Meaning of Soul and Ain't got nothing on me which is true but then you have to look at Noels I can see a liar, put yer money where your mouth is, get off your high horse lady, I can only describe those songs as dross in all fairness.
Does anyone actually like Little James or am I on my own? (If you take away the lyrics for the most part) I think in terms of melody and his voice certainly it's the best song on that album for me alongside Go let it out and I never skip Little James, never.
What Liam does certainly is write from the gut and I think that carries a weight in Gold
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Post by ivaldos on Feb 16, 2011 7:59:37 GMT -5
I think once again Liam has showed that he struggles to write proper song structures. He's got some great catchy hooks and melodies but it seems he just can't fit them into a proper verse chorus structure. Wigwam starts brilliantly then decends into a ramble for example. It's a real shame because he does have some very catchy melodies. Your think Gem or Andy would help him. For me, the secong part of Wigwam is EPIC.. |
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Post by theultimatewannabe on Feb 16, 2011 8:01:11 GMT -5
Morning Son is such a frustrating song to listen to. I'm sat there listening to it for the first time begging it do go somewhere, anywhere. And it doesn't, when you strip it down, it's just a 30 second melody for 6 minutes. Now that's not to say that that can't work sometimes, but for Liam's it's too often and that's 3 album closers which he's written which follow the same pattern. But Morning Son is by far the best of those in terms of lyrics, melody and vocal performance. It's potential is massive but it's final execution is a massive let down. I do not agree. Although TMS has a very simple structure, it is better than Better Man and Soldier on in terms of its fitness as an album closer. Like you said, it is melodically and lyrically better than the former two. The melodies are also more suitable for its development as the song continues. Personally, after 3~4 minutes, I like to see it as an instrumental closer rather than a part of the song. |
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Post by ToneBender on Feb 16, 2011 8:07:01 GMT -5
I dunno. To me, Morning Son is a great album closer. It just goes round and round and round building a nice groove and swell of tension before it releases at the end. Very satisfying.
FWIW, both Wigwam and BOADC have the requisite "turns" that people think Liam's music doesn't have. IMO, Wigwam is the loosest and most organic song structure we've heard out of either Gallagher, ever. The songs on this record feel like they have a life to them. It's a palpable energy that to me was lacking in recent years.
With Noel, I've always found that his songs were a bit boxed in performance and structure wise. He gave the songs a bit more air on the first three records but afterwards, every song was VERY tightly defined by beginning/middle/end. Think about how he used the "Little By Little"/"Roll It Over" style codas on a number of songs. He was overly reliant on a few of his "tricks" the last few years. You could sum up a Noel ballad post-2000 pretty easily. Same plodding tempo, same use of mellotrons, same dynamics, same lyrical and melodic turns. All decent songs, but the same one written over and over and over again.
I don't know about you but I find hearing Liam's voice on different types of melody to be one of the more refreshing parts of DGSS. Remember when "Scorpio Rising" came out? People went bananas. It wasn't because the song was that good or the arrangement was that different from a typical Oasis song. It was because it was so refreshing to hear Liam's voice in a different context, melodically and lyrically. Seriously, I say it a lot but how many times on an Oasis album can you hear Liam or Noel utter the word "soul", "star", or "shine" without skipping ahead to the next track?
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