|
|
Post by castlecraver on Jul 5, 2008 11:27:26 GMT -5
If so, then he's not an atheist. maybe he's like me (and christopher hitchens)... an antitheist. This is possible, that he takes the Hitchens stance, but I personally disagree with the "antitheism" terminology. To me, "antitheism" should mean, literally, against theism. Theisim being any belief in god or gods. Those who are of the opinion that theism is bad should label themselves "antitheists," whereas I feel that those who are simply of the opinion that organized religion is bad but leave the door open for some individualized brand of "higher power" or spirituality should call themselves... um... something else, and certainly not "atheist." Just because one doesn't call his higher power "God" doesn't subvert the application of the god concept. IMHO, Anyone who believes in any sort of a higher power and does not unequivocally deny the existence of god is not an atheist. Period. |
|
|
|
Post by Columbus Egg on Jul 5, 2008 11:30:32 GMT -5
Ugh ...  That's right from the album's booklet. I can't believe this conversation keeps happening. I always took god in a paper bag to mean alcoholism, like tramps carrying bottles of whiskey around in brown paper bags Nope. It's written to Tony Blair, who may be a lot of things, but he carries his hooch around in a flask like everyone else. ;D |
|
supernovalady
Madferrit Fan
Wake up the dawn & ask her why a dreamer dreams she never dies
Posts: 63
|
Post by supernovalady on Jul 5, 2008 12:07:43 GMT -5
I heard Noel say on Russell Brand show one time that he doesn't believe in God and , like alot of you have written in your comments , there's much in his lyrics that tell you his feelings on the subject . If you haven't read Paulo Hewitt's book , you need to . Explains Noel's & Liam's feelings regarding the Catholic church and how their mother was torn about leaving their father or staying with him ( even tho he was very abusive) due to her religious upbringing .
|
|
|
|
Post by jilliam on Jul 5, 2008 12:31:56 GMT -5
Ok, then, Noels put himself out there as an Atheist, right, then why does he still mention "hell" in quite a few songs? Is he a "half-ass" Atheist? I can assure you, that if someone would pull a knife/gun on him, the first person he'd call upon would be GOD....
|
|
|
|
Post by The Boy Without the Blues on Jul 5, 2008 12:47:00 GMT -5
Ok, then, Noels put himself out there as an Atheist, right, then why does he still mention "hell" in quite a few songs? Is he a "half-ass" Atheist? I can assure you, that if someone would pull a knife/gun on him, the first person he'd call upon would be GOD.... Agreed. "Cos GOD gimme a soul and all rock'n'roll..." Anyway, I think noel is really confused about this sort of think... he once asked Bono for some spiritual guidance, and I heard he gave Noel some books, but still the chief couldn't get... I'd say Noel want to believe, he just couldn't find a reason yet... |
|
|
|
Post by Columbus Egg on Jul 5, 2008 12:50:47 GMT -5
Ok, then, Noels put himself out there as an Atheist, right, then why does he still mention "hell" in quite a few songs? Is he a "half-ass" Atheist? I can assure you, that if someone would pull a knife/gun on him, the first person he'd call upon would be GOD.... It's just a commonly used theme/expression, as is Jesus, God etc. It holds a lot of emotional significance to most people regardless of what they believe or don't believe, so it works to use it in songs. What you say about someone putting a gun on him would be a nothing-to-lose sort of effort, which doesn't add up to much. As a former Christian, I never made much of those life or death scenarios ... the real test of your faith is the small things you do regularly. It's been said that someone's devotion can be strong enough to die for God, but praying and going to church is pushing it too far -- and for an awful lot of people, it's true. |
|
|
|
Post by ugottahavefun on Jul 5, 2008 13:01:24 GMT -5
Interesting thread...considering Noel's cynical nature, him being an atheist wouldn't be a surprise. But no real atheist could pen live forever or even the masterplan (all we know is that we don't know how it's gonna be). Most peoples belief in God fluctuates during in their lifetime, and when you're young (stay young and invincible) you feel like you don't need one.
Noel as leader of Oasis probably sees reliance on someone as a sign of weakness, and if even if he does believe, it's so much easier to slag religion than risk headlines of 'Noel Gallagher embraces God'.
He's Irish Roman Catholic like me, and in the words of Father Dougal 'We're all going to Heaven lads w'Hey!!! anyway.
|
|
|
|
Post by rustedrain on Jul 5, 2008 13:09:39 GMT -5
I myself asked this question because someone like Noel who has had very amazing life and writes songs like 'Live forever' sorta seems like he would be into God whether we knew it or not.look at bono, people think hes weird for doing the things he does but i think hes trying to give back because he believed God has helped him so much.but i heard Liam does go too church and is follower of Christ
|
|
|
|
Post by henrod89 on Jul 5, 2008 14:00:27 GMT -5
I'ts obviously 'paperback'. First of all, it's in the lryical book. Secondly, as many of you said, 'paperbag' makes no sense. But I do enjoy how some of you tried to make sense of it. Lastly, what rhymes better : paperbag and Union Jack ? or paperback and Union Jack  I think that explains it right there . . . |
|
|
|
Post by Cast on Jul 5, 2008 14:35:10 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by Beady’s Here Now on Jul 5, 2008 15:14:55 GMT -5
I'm an atheist like Noel....more agnostic really, but def lean atheists...
However, despite this lyric not proving his atheism, it's still one of his best ont he subject matter:
Strangle my hope and make me pray
To a God I've never seen but who I've betrayed
To the people who live the afterlife
In a place I'll never see until I'm crucified.
-Let's All Make Believe
^Those lyrics right there are SOOO good.
|
|
|
|
Post by mufcoasis on Jul 5, 2008 16:08:52 GMT -5
"But I don't believe in magic
Life is automatic"
|
|
|
|
Post by TheEXPERIENCE on Jul 5, 2008 16:22:58 GMT -5
I'ts obviously 'paperback'. First of all, it's in the lryical book. Secondly, as many of you said, 'paperbag' makes no sense. But I do enjoy how some of you tried to make sense of it. Lastly, what rhymes better : paperbag and Union Jack ? or paperback and Union Jack I think that explains it right there . . . Confession...The first time I heard it, I thought he sang 'You got your gun from a paper bag, You get your history from The Unit and JAG" lol |
|
|
|
Post by Jonny on Jul 5, 2008 16:33:07 GMT -5
"If there's a god, you'll be crashin' when you burn"
|
|
|
|
Post by Columbus Egg on Jul 5, 2008 16:54:20 GMT -5
"I met my maker, I made him cry
And on my shoulder he asked me why
His people won't fly through the storm
I said 'Listen up, man, they don't even know you're born'"
(Is god the "maker" he's talking about?) Somewhere online there's a big brainy article dissecting those lyrics and the rest of the song as Noel talking about having an estranged relationship with god.
Then there's My Big Mouth ...
"I ain't ever spoke to god
And I ain't ever been to heaven
But you assumed I knew the way
Even though the map was given"
So is the map here the Bible? Maybe he's just saying "go read the Bible and get religious if you need something like that in your life, not me." But then there's something else ...
"And as you look into the eyes
Of a bloody cold assassian
It's only then you realize
With whose life you have been messing"
What's "bloody cold assassian" about?
And then of course later he writes Gas Panic! -- tongueless ghost of sin ... if there's a god would he give another chancer an hour to sing for his soul ...
So maybe he has some feelings of guilt and emptiness for turning away from god, even though he officially swears him off. Like maybe he'd like to know god, but doesn't want to put up with all the confusion and mixed feelings he has attached to it.
|
|
|
|
Post by nyr401994 on Jul 5, 2008 17:32:45 GMT -5
maybe he's like me (and christopher hitchens)... an antitheist. This is possible, that he takes the Hitchens stance, but I personally disagree with the "antitheism" terminology. To me, "antitheism" should mean, literally, against theism. Theisim being any belief in god or gods. Those who are of the opinion that theism is bad should label themselves "antitheists," whereas I feel that those who are simply of the opinion that organized religion is bad but leave the door open for some individualized brand of "higher power" or spirituality should call themselves... um... something else, and certainly not "atheist." Just because one doesn't call his higher power "God" doesn't subvert the application of the god concept. IMHO, Anyone who believes in any sort of a higher power and does not unequivocally deny the existence of god is not an atheist. Period. i thought theism is religion itself. |
|
|
|
Post by nyr401994 on Jul 5, 2008 17:35:18 GMT -5
There's been some tabloid stories about Liam taking his family to church and telling his kids not to swear, but that could be for all sorts of reasons ... probably still an athiest/agnostic whatever. if he took his kids anywhere, i think it would be to a synagogue. nicole appleton is jewish, and jewish law states that the child's religion is the mother's. of course, she could be nonreligious or converted altogether... |
|
|
|
Post by henrod89 on Jul 5, 2008 17:39:16 GMT -5
I love all the people who bring up his lyrical content.
I'm not saying you can't take anything from his lyrics but sometimes you just write something because it sounds good or it makes some sense. Not necessarily because you totally believe it. Some of you are pointing to songs that he wrote 20 something years ago. Like Some Might Say, he probably just wrote that heaven and hell lyric because it sounded clever. I doubt he sat there and was like, "Oh yea. I believe in heaven and hell, so this is the bollocks!'
I'm just saying you can't pick out lines from all of his songs. It proves nothing. Especially coming from Noel . . .
|
|
|
|
Post by fergal41 on Jul 5, 2008 17:44:46 GMT -5
Aye, I believe much can be infered from the lyrics but also much can be obviously not infered, such as "God gimme soul in your rock'n'roll babe" is pretty meaningless whereas "You found your God in a paperback" isn't.
I don't know the man personally, but going off what I've heard of him talk n that I reckon he's undecided, doesn't particularly believe but reckons theres sumat out there. Like so many of us I suppose.
"And if there's a god would he give another chancer
An hour to sing for his soul "
On the topic of God, Paul Weller's tune God on the new album got me thinking.
|
|
|
|
Post by Columbus Egg on Jul 5, 2008 17:50:25 GMT -5
I love all the people who bring up his lyrical content. I'm not saying you can't take anything from his lyrics but sometimes you just write something because it sounds good or it makes some sense. Not necessarily because you totally believe it. Some of you are pointing to songs that he wrote 20 something years ago. Like Some Might Say, he probably just wrote that heaven and hell lyric because it sounded clever. I doubt he sat there and was like, "Oh yea. I believe in heaven and hell, so this is the bollocks!' I'm just saying you can't pick out lines from all of his songs. It proves nothing. Especially coming from Noel . . . Who says we're proving anything? It's not like he's laid it out one way or another in his interviews, and we can't just get him to post it here, so this is food for thought on an interesting subject. And it's not like he writes random stuff like Some Might Say all the time. When he writes "I've known all along but let me just make it clear ..." I think it's kinda right to assume he's telling us something? |
|
|
|
Post by castlecraver on Jul 5, 2008 18:21:52 GMT -5
i thought theism is religion itself. Depends. Some might say belief in god/gods is an underlying requirement for a religion, and it'd probably be a valid point. But I think in a discussion of "anti-theism" vs "atheism" vs whatever else, I certainly think one can be anti-religion without being anti-god. |
|
|
|
Post by oasisenda on Jul 5, 2008 18:57:22 GMT -5
Well I was wrong it is paperback, Noel himself confirmed this on Brands show tonight when Brand read out my email. Noel said he did hold athesit views too. Made my week when he described my question as brilliant!! U can hear it here its about 1 hour 21 mins into the show. www.bbc.co.uk/radio/aod/networks/radio2/aod.shtml?radio2/r2_brand# |
|
|
|
Post by adamhannah on Jul 5, 2008 21:49:16 GMT -5
Why are you people trying to find evidence for Noel's beliefs in lyrics of songs like live forever? its called a metaphor. duh. And just because he mentions hell doesn't mean he believes in it.
What you're also forgetting is that if you're not an atheist, you're not awesome.
|
|
|
|
Post by supersonic1983 on Jul 5, 2008 22:06:58 GMT -5
I don't believe in God (or otherwise), and therefore wouldn't hesitate in defining myself as an atheist. However, I do believe in fate - this in itself is not something I would consider to be a product of 'God', per se, but a 'power' not dissimilar to love in both the way it is manifested and the psychological effect that it can have on an individual. In that sense, I think it's apt to describe both fate and love as a 'higher power' - not one determined and controlled by a God or supreme being, more a state over which, to some extent, we have relatively little authority. I think, perhaps, that this is what Noel was getting at. And the debate regarding lyrical content is a non-starter, for me. Noel's lyrics do not serve to prove his acknowledgement of the physical existence of heaven and hell. They're merely a simple metaphor used to make a point with some degree of immediacy. What you're also forgetting is that if you're not an atheist, you're not awesome.  |
|
supernovalady
Madferrit Fan
Wake up the dawn & ask her why a dreamer dreams she never dies
Posts: 63
|
Post by supernovalady on Jul 5, 2008 22:12:23 GMT -5
Well I was wrong it is paperback, Noel himself confirmed this on Brands show tonight when Brand read out my email. Noel said he did hold athesit views too. Made my week when he described my question as brilliant!! U can hear it here its about 1 hour 21 mins into the show. www.bbc.co.uk/radio/aod/networks/radio2/aod.shtml?radio2/r2_brand#I was listening and heard your question - glad you sent it in , he sounded impressed by it ! |
|
I think that explains it right there . . . 
Nov 4, 2024 5:04:30 GMT -5
Nov 4, 2024 5:04:30 GMT -5